Minor Countries Almost Impossible to Play

[unmerged(30105)]

Since the patches they have made playing nations other than civlized difficult to play. In many cases it becomes difficult to keep a profit, or even balance the budget.

In many of the nations I have played I had to disban my army and put taxes on the highest along with putting high tariffs to break even or begin to make a profit.

Such cases where this seem strange is Korea, Siam (along with any other small Asian country) Egypt and others. I have this start off army yet I cannot afford it. I wonder how the hell did the nation stay afloat in the first place, let alone afford the army. At least make it possible on normal settings, with their army, to break even. The case where you begin the game and have negative $5 seems strange.

The fact that you cannot even increase RGOs makes playing these nations not fun. While I can conquere away I wish I could increase RGO like it was before the patches. Some people wish to play minor countries, or those that are not considered civilized. Trying to build industry is hard enough, but lack of any technology along with no possiblity to advance the nation, other than waiting.

I say At least add RGO back =)

Thanks

Opinions? Comments?

 

[Antonin1957]

Since the patches they have made playing nations other than civlized difficult to play. In many cases it becomes difficult to keep a profit, or even balance the budget.

In many of the nations I have played I had to disban my army and put taxes on the highest along with putting high tariffs to break even or begin to make a profit....


...Opinions? Comments?

I agree with you.

I also prefer to play non-great power countries, and I have found them to be very little fun. I do the same thing you do: disband the army immediately and raise taxes, and then wait years in game time before my country can do things like change social polities, build an army, etc.

I found that the only way I could make Japan playable was to edit the country files to make it civilized instead of uncivilized.

I made the point in another thread that many players of Vicky want to rewrite history (within reason), not sit by and follow an historical path. I personally do not want to play the UK, the US, or another superpower. I want the game to give me a reasonable chance to find a small "place in the sun" for a medium sized or smaller power. Some type of Fantasia option should exist for Vicky, as in EU2.

Someone in this forum suggested that I try Sardinia-Piedmont. I did, and have found that country to be a good choice in terms of what you can do to develop your state and violate the sovereignty of your neighbors.

 

[Darkrenown]

That was me. Well, I said try an Italian minor anyway.

I don't think minor countries are impossible to play, I've taken Serbia and united the entire balkans area. However, it is hard to get anything done as an uncivilized country. I can't really complain about that, the game is set in an era where most of the world's power is concentrated in europe and that power is used to take over much of the rest of the world. Still, just about any nation can become civilized and become at least a regional power. For tips on how to become civilized take a look the the "tips for playing Korea in the GC" thread.

 

[unmerged(21796)]

where theres a will, theres a way... and Korea has ALOT of will...

 

[unmerged(30105)]

I can never seem to get enough Machine parts for my nation. It always seems to be at 1 and I have waited years to get anything. It should be at least slightly easier to buy machine parts.

Also I think if they are going to put such heavy restrictions upon uncivilized powers they should make it easier to become civilized. Like 50 Prestige, 5 Military, 50 Industrial all of these not the easiest to achieve by any measure and even if achieved you have only reached the level of almost every other country.

One more thing. If you play the GC and play another scenario after it you can see the RGO increase. From level 1 to level 3. I mean common if it can be done Historically why cant I do it. Maybe make it more expensive or not able to go to a certain level, but I dont understand why they would take it away. At least give the uncivilized countries that.

 

[Waffen9999]

While I agree that uncivilized nations really aren't meant to compete with world powers. It's just the way it is sorry. They should however be allowed to expand RGO's. I don't see why even the most barbaric people wouldn't realize that hey, we can always have more people do this. Would really help a nation like China and Japan. Than again they're probably not allowed to expand for the very reason that it would help those two and Korea and Persia attain civilized status alot easier.

 

[unmerged(30105)]

While I agree that uncivilized nations really aren't meant to compete with world powers. It's just the way it is sorry. They should however be allowed to expand RGO's. I don't see why even the most barbaric people wouldn't realize that hey, we can always have more people do this. Would really help a nation like China and Japan. Than again they're probably not allowed to expand for the very reason that it would help those two and Korea and Persia attain civilized status alot easier.

Agreed all I say that RGO should be able to be expanded again like it was in the first version. I dont really see any balance issue with this.

One item of note Historically Bangkok, in Siam, was a very busy and advanced port city. Even though it was independent it was one of the largest ports in the world. Yet in the game I cannot even increase goods.

 

[rado907]

Minors with no coal are completely lost.
Minor with coal but no iron are in a big trouble...
If you have coal and iron, you can build a steel and a machine parts factory, and from then on industrialize, build up an army, build railroads and so on...

but without these resources it's nigh impossible to do anything... importing is unreliable at best. plus it's expensive.

 

[Waffen9999]

Minors with no coal are completely lost.
Minor with coal but no iron are in a big trouble...
If you have coal and iron, you can build a steel and a machine parts factory, and from then on industrialize, build up an army, build railroads and so on...

but without these resources it's nigh impossible to do anything... importing is unreliable at best. plus it's expensive.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. It's espcially tedious with Japan, Korea, Persia and China like I mentioned since they have so many out of work pops just laying around doing absolutely nothing. The only nice thing about China is should you manage to actually be able to colonize areas >I was able to in my last game< you can pretty much almost be guaranteed to grant statehood to said places as your pops migrate in mass. At least they did for me.

 

[Darkrenown]

I can never seem to get enough Machine parts for my nation. It always seems to be at 1 and I have waited years to get anything. It should be at least slightly easier to buy machine parts.

You should trade for mechanical production, interchangeable parts, freedom of trade and flintlock rifles. Or just the first 2 for machine parts. Sell some land if need be, but those techs are what you need to get you up and running.

 

[Waffen9999]

You should trade for mechanical production, interchangeable parts, freedom of trade and flintlock rifles. Or just the first 2 for machine parts. Sell some land if need be, but those techs are what you need to get you up and running.

I tried that actually. In my China game that I had going everything was running smoothly, I had tons of prestige, even after losing the Opium and Arrow wars >so I could gain the techs< the military rating was perfect since I got two free cavalry units thanks to events. I had 5 factories and than I realized it. I didn't have experimental railroad. I had only traded for Publishing and freedom of trade. I hadn't gotten ahold of experimental railroad or mechanical production, either so that I could improve my industrial rating. I watched in horror as the years ticked by with nothing to show for it. The humanity I was doing great to, I had colonized Bonin, Okinawa and Amani, Yebuti, Cameroon and all of Melanesia and Midway. I was in the process of Mikronesia and Polynesia to. Freedom of Trade, Publishing/Mechanical Production and Experimental railroad are absolutley crucial.

 

[Darkrenown]

I didn't think of experimental railroads either , add that to my list above and you're nicely on the 5 tech trade limit.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

I thik minor nations are probably easier than they should be historically. In any case they should not be made easier still. You just need to reevaluate yor goals. Instead of wanting to become civilized or industrialized you should aim to just survive. That should be a great achievement with some nations.

 

[unmerged(30105)]

I thik minor nations are probably easier than they should be historically. In any case they should not be made easier still. You just need to reevaluate yor goals. Instead of wanting to become civilized or industrialized you should aim to just survive. That should be a great achievement with some nations.

I really didnt have that with any nations. With Siam I took over almost all, except Vietnam, South East Asia. As Tibet I took over the small nations around me, even with Nepal I was able to annex my neighbors.

I only want to be able to effect my nation, plans for wold domination are small.

I think they should add RGO for uncivlized nations back. Really dont see how they effect the balance that much, however they would be able to help some minor nations develop the income they need to purcahse the needed resources to upgrade.

Also I dont know about you but somtimes its impossible to find some resources, even in the passing of 20 years. They should perhaps make vital resources to industralization a little easier, I dont care if its more expensive. I just dont want it to be impossible to purchase these.

Make a great game better... by allowing minors to be more fun to play
=)

 

[Lethke]

Maybe expansion of RGO's should be tied to Freedom of Trade? And another thing that has bugged me is the large amount of machine parts one needs for wineries, come on. People were making wine for ages, they didn't need any freakin machine parts to do that.
Lower the number of machine parts needed to 1.

 

[Mike von Bek]

While there are some game mechanics that could be made easier for the minor powers, Im not exactly sure they should be made easier to play overall. Do we really want to have minor countries capable of WC? Or conquering large swathes of the countryside? Id rather know that choosing to play Liberia, or Oman, or a South-East Asian power is goign to limit my game and force me to focus on other goals. Technology, or population, or literacy - etc.

 

[Memnon]

This doesn't pertain to most minors, but one thing that perpetually prevents me from playing African minors is that they can barely ever expand. I understand the reasoning for the four-year time for colonial buildings, but should Sokoto or Zululand be under the samr restrictions? Europe colonized because the lands were far away and the cultures exotic; Zululand should be able to conquer it.

That having been said, I can't think of a way to actually implement that in the game without creating about thirty new uncivilized countries.

 

[unmerged(30105)]

Even as a regional power, Siam, I still couldnt challenge France. I was able to take over most of South East Asia, but I doubt that changing RGOs would really change the balance too much.

Tell me is it really that much harder to fight Minor Powers in non patched Victoria or fully patched. Maybe resources easier to buy, more available. I dont know why but for some reason even with one of the highest prestige in the game I still cant buy anything.

I believe Civilized countries have too much of an advantage over uncivilized, not only in their massive technology but the hundreds of other advantages they have. So numerous the game doesnt even tell you all of them =)

RGO should be returned to all nations non civilized or not.

Small nations are still fun to play. Its nice being above 40 when your a nation like Siam.

 

[swilhelm73]

I say leave it as it is.

Uncivilized minor nations are supposed to be very weak. It is not as if the choices are just the UK and Cambodia. You can easily find a country in between these extremes.

If you want to play a dominant Cambodia then feel free to edit the save. Prior to v1.03 China was an ahistorical monster even when controlled by the AI. Allowing RGO expansion will just bring this sort of problem back. Its not as if it is hard to civilize for the nations that are supposed to - China, Japan, and Persia - anyway...

 

[Chaingun]

Aaah *remembers the 1.01 Afghanistan Great Power*. The reason to why many minors/uncivilized are not fun, is simply that their choices are restricted. Tell me how fun it is to try to survive with an uncivilized one province country, when you basically have no options whatsoever than where to place your incredibly far-in-beteen diplomats. You can't build an army, research takes ages, you can't dream of industrialising, etc. While this might be acceptable as a minor, I do believe that most uncivlized larger countries (save the few really big ones), also are in this trap. Try to do anything with Afghanistan in 1.03 and you'll find that 1) You will now barely afford you starting army and must tax to the extreme if you do or ignore education, 2) You have a very tiny chance if getting out of the crappy technological situation you are in.

My problem in short is that most uncivilized countries, alebeit technogically inferior should have had more options to them in the hands of powerful rulers. Victoria does not simulate this, but I believe it sits too much in the game design to be changed for the better. However, some stupid limitations of choice can be changed like RGO expansion. And really, how many of the incredible number of nations do you consider remotely fun to play in 1.03?