Minister bonuses to more units

[Lord Jarski]

Hello!

Ive always wondered why there isnt any ministers that give a construction or efficiency bonuses to, say, heavy tanks or armored cars and so on. These could be added to certain uncommonly used minister types. I think they might increase the value of brigades generally considered less usefull and make people consider more minister options.

Heres a few examples of what I was thinking about:

Minister of Security: Prince of Terror, he could get a construction bonus to MP brigades and perhaps even garrisons
Chief of staff: +10% land unit speed, he could also give a offensive bonus to light tank brigades, armored cars and motorized brigades
Chief of staff: +10% Defensive combat modifier, as per his description, could be given a construction bonus to militia and engineers
Chief of staff: Mass combat guy, should give a construction bonus to militia aswell
Chief of staff: +20 org regain, perhaps can give a construction bonus to mountaineers and other elites?
Head of Intelligence: +30% army detection could give an offensive bonus to armoured cars, which are the closest thing to a recon vehicle
Armaments minister: Battlefleet proponent, should give a construction bonus to battlecruisers aswell, perhaps even all the surface warships
Armaments minister: Tank proponent, should give a construction bonuses to light and heavy tank brigades
Chief of Army: Guns and butter, could give a construction bonus to HQs and perhaps AC/moto brigades too
Chief of Army: Static Defence, should give a defensive bonus to engineers aswell
Chief of Army: Armoured Spearhead, should give a construction bonus to light tank brigades and assault guns
Chief of Army: Elastic Defence, should give defensive bonus to assault guns
Chief of Navy: Indirect Approach, could give a construction bonus to sea mines, naval camo and torpedo brigades
Chief of Air: Carpet bomber, could give a construction bonus to V1s

And so on....

What do you think?

 

[Blecky]

Take a look at the CORE mod. They´ve already implemented some of those bonuses.

 

[Lord Jarski]

Alright cool, I just think itd be nice to have such in the vanilla game aswell.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Alright cool, I just think itd be nice to have such in the vanilla game aswell.

I completely agree, there needs to be more real choice for vanilla AoD. It would also encourage players to build more then just Art and Sp-Art for brigades as well.

 

[bestmajor]

i also thought about new types of ministers like

Minister of Transportation/Railroads (Gotaro Ogawa, Godo Takuo, Julius Dorpmüller)
Minister of Agriculture/Food (Walter Darré, Herbert Backe)
Minister of Propaganda/Information (Joseph Goebbels)
Reichsjugendführer (Baldur von Schirach, Artur Axmann)
Partisan Leader (Voroshilov, Tito, uncle Ho)
Head of the MVSN (Enzo Galbiati)
Minister of foreign trade (Anastas Mikoyan)
Head of GOSPLAN (Nikloai Voznesensky)

 

[vitality]

i also thought about new types of ministers like

Minister of Transportation/Railroads (Gotaro Ogawa, Godo Takuo, Julius Dorpmüller)
Minister of Agriculture/Food (Walter Darré, Herbert Backe)
Minister of Propaganda/Information (Joseph Goebbels)
Reichsjugendführer (Baldur von Schirach, Artur Axmann)
Partisan Leader (Voroshilov, Tito, uncle Ho)
Head of the MVSN (Enzo Galbiati)
Minister of foreign trade (Anastas Mikoyan)
Head of GOSPLAN (Nikloai Voznesensky)

I would absolutely love a partisan minister. Currently you have no means of doing what the Soviets historically did, wielding a relatively large influence over some of the territories occupied by Germany. A minister would be a neat way to simulate that.

Something like
"+5% revolt risk in territories owned by you and occupied by others."
"-10% repair in territories owned by you and occupied by others"

 

[unmerged(138550)]

I would absolutely love a partisan minister. Currently you have no means of doing what the Soviets historically did, wielding a relatively large influence over some of the territories occupied by Germany. A minister would be a neat way to simulate that.

Something like
"+5% revolt risk in territories owned by you and occupied by others."
"-10% repair in territories owned by you and occupied by others"

That is an excellent idea. Love it.

 

[bestmajor]

dont know if its possible to add commands which affect provinces of other nations...
i would doubt that.

 

[Autolykos]

i also thought about new types of ministers like

Minister of Transportation/Railroads (Gotaro Ogawa, Godo Takuo, Julius Dorpmüller)
Minister of Agriculture/Food (Walter Darré, Herbert Backe)
Minister of Propaganda/Information (Joseph Goebbels)
Reichsjugendführer (Baldur von Schirach, Artur Axmann)
Partisan Leader (Voroshilov, Tito, uncle Ho)
Head of the MVSN (Enzo Galbiati)
Minister of foreign trade (Anastas Mikoyan)
Head of GOSPLAN (Nikloai Voznesensky)

Hm, I wouldn't introduce new minister types, especially if they only apply to a few nations. Reworking the interface looks like a lot of work for little gain. Unless you mean personalities, then I'm in favor. The partisan idea looks nice (I'd also want that for the Guerilla Warfare Doctrine), but may be hard to implement. At least, I see no way to pull it off with the current event commands or personality effects. The closest thing would be army detection and IntOp chance (used to guide logistical strikes and help sabotage missions) - but that only works for advanced nations.

Combining the boni for unloved units/brigades with unloved ministers/ideas is a stroke of genius. Definitely in favor. I'd also like some boni for awesome-but-impractical units (like SH Armor, Rail Artillery, V1/V2) for that Power-Hungy Demagogue, to reflect his obsession with this stuff.

EDIT: Also, don't introduce new ministers if there isn't some kind of choice involved. With railroads, for example, I can only imagine guys with TC boni and guys who suck. If there aren't many different equally valid approaches/priorities (like with armament or intelligence), leave it out. Don't clutter the interface with non-choices.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

One import change would be to add TC boni on some of those armanent ministers that donnot increase ic.

Chief of staff: +10% land unit speed, he could also give a offensive bonus to light tank brigades, armored cars and motorized brigades

Imo not light armor brigade but light armour divisions should get a bonus by this ministers. Their big advantage is that they can utilize high speed.

Chief of staff: +20 org regain, perhaps can give a construction bonus to mountaineers and other elites?

This guy is "too" powerful already. Adding some bonus to infantry propenent armanent minister seems more legit.

 

[Lord Jarski]

Yeah well, Light arm divisions already receive bonuses from the spearhead guy, light tank brigades dont gain bonuses at all from anything, but certainly the speed minister could give bonus to both perhaps?

Yeah, +20 org regain is pretty powerfull, I just thought that since at least in Germany many of these ministers were in RL responsible for commando operations and such it, it would fit the minister type.

Adding a mountaineer bonus to the infantry proponent is a good idea, most of the specific armed branch proponents could use some love.

 

[bestmajor]

Hm, I wouldn't introduce new minister types, especially if they only apply to a few nations. Reworking the interface looks like a lot of work for little gain. Unless you mean personalities, then I'm in favor.

i meant personalities, i cant change hard coded stuff. there are some people like eg Walter Darré, who were minister of agriculture, and this is sth which needs to be in the game, as its historically more accurate (in the Armaments section). at least in Japan are railroad ministers, a trait which is missing as well to model history better.
i wouldnt create unique minister traits/personalities, though.

 

[Lord Jarski]

If you want those ministers to have their realistic bonuses, one would need to make new personalities, not necessarily a daunting task, as they would be just for the few ministers you mentioned (at first anyway), so no need to go through all the minister files.

Armaments minister: Agricultural Specialist, +5% manpower growth, +10% supply production, -5% IC
Armaments minister: Railroad Tycoon, +10% TC modifier, -5% infrastructure construction, -5% Railroad artillery construction

Something like that you had in mind?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Yeah well, Light arm divisions already receive bonuses from the spearhead guy,

That is not so. You could argue that this guey should give a bonus to them, but in vanilla AoD he does not.

but certainly the speed minister could give bonus to both perhaps?

In general i would like to limit multiple boni. If 5% + 5% ad up to 10%, fine. If something adds up to 15% or even 20% that is not so fine anymore.

 

[Lord Jarski]

That is not so. You could argue that this guey should give a bonus to them, but in vanilla AoD he does not.

Really? Never realized that, well, more reason for the speed minister to give a bonus to them indeed.

In general i would like to limit multiple boni. If 5% + 5% ad up to 10%, fine. If something adds up to 15% or even 20% that is not so fine anymore.

Yes of course, not wishing any unit or brigade type gaining immense boosts at least without a severe disadvantage in other areas, would be ideal to keep them within the range of current bonuses, +5%-10%.

For example the light armored divisions and brigades would gain a +5% offensive bonus from the speed minister, -5% construction modifer from a tank proponent, and perhaps a +5% offensive bonus to LA divisions and a -5% construction bonus to LA brigades from an spearhead minister.

Certainly, those add up to +15% bonuses to a unit type. But, having so many tank-loving ministers makes you lose out in other perspective, you cannot have a +25% MP minister, nor any IC minister. Basically you are concentrating on solely tanks, tanks and tanks, and that comes with a hefty cost. And certainly at this situation a smart human enemy will know your spamming armoured units and prepares to meet them with AT equipment.

No unit type should become superior with the ministers, just want the ones lacking any bonuses at the moment, to have a chance to get minister bonuses if someone wishes to concentrate on them.

 

[bestmajor]

Armaments minister: Agricultural Specialist, +5% manpower growth, +10% supply production, -5% IC
Armaments minister: Railroad Tycoon, +10% TC modifier, -5% infrastructure construction, -5% Railroad artillery construction

Something like that you had in mind?

as for agriculture i had + consumer goods and - IC

for Armaments minister (had the same idea last summer; re: Railroad Tycoon)
-IC / + TC (should be more TC than the Admin Genius while less IC than Undistuingished Suit)

would depend on how ai/human players do handle this, though




Jarski, as for your proposals about milita, i would give them some combat values, but not necessarily speed up the production more. there are already a lot in game if ai panics

 

[Lord Jarski]

Jarski, as for your proposals about milita, i would give them some combat values, but not necessarily speed up the production more. there are already a lot in game if ai panics

True that militia certainly doesent need to be any faster to build, suppose the +10% defensive minister could give a further +5% defence bonus to militia? I still think it would be more logical for the Mass Combat minister to give a construction bonus to militia, rather than some combat bonus but dont know, hard to evaluate how much it would affect the game.

 

[Autolykos]

I think +5% offense for Militia is quite well-suited for Mass Combat (to reflect that everyone else only uses them defensively as a damage sponge). Plus, Volkssturm and Guerrilla Warfare already provide more defensive boni to Mil.
More cost reduction for Inf might be somewhat OP (unless they are also weakened to reflect poor training & equipment - but then no sane player would use it except for exploits).

 

[bestmajor]

my biggest concern with MIL is actually that HoI has (since HoI1 AFAIK) - some kind of "panic modus". when AI is outnumbered too much, it only builds MIL. this helps against ai nations but not against the human player who gets that (even more with good decryption techs). so after a while even the SU runs out of MP with these MIL builds.

as for how this will affect the ai: SU has to be stronger, no matter what, IMO (without GER being weaker). so boni for MIL is better than speed it up, maybe? - just wild guessing, though.

I think +5% offense for Militia is quite well-suited for Mass Combat (to reflect that everyone else only uses them defensively as a damage sponge).

problem is that SOV never attacks with MIL, but merely tries to hold the line

 

[Autolykos]

Fixing panic mode is another problem altogether, best not to mix solutions. I'd start panic a little earlier with massed INF builds and only mix in more MIL with increasing threat (if MP is still plenty but IC short, at least). I rarely go above 1:1 (in divisions, not IC) anyway, even if I swim in MP, as I find that losses start to increase again after that point.