Minimum ship naval yard size for shipbuilding?

[potski]

Even in HoI1 we could control the emphasis on different types of production (although not to the level of detail we could in HoI3), and that was just bog-standard text files (it wasn't as nuanced as HoI3 mind, just mentioning that if it's been in HoI1 and HoI3 (and I'd bet in HoI2, but haven't looked), we're likely to have some modding control in HoI4).

Yes, that was my presumption if no Lua, then no control. Never played HOI1, and never modded HOI2, but what you say makes sense. Easy enough for the devs to provide a simple text file with basic production/construction priorities for the AI, and that tells the AI of minors not to build capital ships.

 

[potski]

It was one of the later (but not the last, maybe, 2nd-3rd last?) WWWs with Johan vs Da9l, Da9l had four 15-dockyard runs of Bismarck's going on, with full steel and no oil, with production time being (I think - give or take for misfiring neurons) 1.08 years. Assuming a linear relationship of factories to production (which I'm pretty sure is the case, particularly for ships where there's no efficiency bonus over time), that'd mean three dockyards would give us a Bismarck in five years (or so).

Excellent. Found it here:

At 20:14:

First thing, it's 1.13 years remaining, they are already about 30% produced. So a total time closer to 1.5 years.

Germany controls half of the Soviet Union at this stage, and still doesn't have any oil spare for building ships. Each dockyard requires oil, steel (4) and chromium (2). If we assume that no minors have the spare oil (other than Romania and Venezuela) and very few have the Chromium, then most minors (and even some majors if they are using their resources on other things), might be lacking two out of three resources. This can easily put build time to over 10 years if using 5 dockyards.

You wouldn't spend so long building a single ship that will be obsolete by the time it is commissioned, and might be sunk within weeks because you don't have the screens or air support to protect it.

 

[Secret Master]

There isn't. Ships always are commissioned as green, and can only gain experience levels by actual naval combat.

I wonder why this was implemented. Plenty of ships had shakedown cruises to get the crew up to speed.

Is it related to the "fuel is used to build, not power ships" thing?

 

[potski]

Possibly training of Divs has a cost in attrition of their equipment, which doesn't work with ships? If there's no cost then it's just a nobrainer and pointless putting in mechanisms, because everyone will be trained.

 

[Secret Master]

Possibly training of Divs has a cost in attrition of their equipment, which doesn't work with ships? If there's no cost then it's just a nobrainer and pointless putting in mechanisms, because everyone will be trained.

I guess.

I figure ships could take "damage" that requires repair to represent training.

Seems like some kind of engine limitation.

 

[potski]

Although accidents did happen, it doesn't seem like a very good abstraction that all ships take say 6% damage while training. Plus repairs of ships don't require work done in dockyards using factories/resources.

 

[Nicolas I]

...Is it related to the "fuel is used to build, not power ships" thing?

Please, use the Oil ans Logistics megathread for your complaints about that, as was requested by Secret Master ;-).

 

[scroggin]

Maybe minimum size of dockyards for unlocking each type of ship? & its production?

LVL 1 convoys

LVL 2 destroyer ship (& escort ships if they still exist in the same way as hoi3)

LVL 4 cruiser ship

LVL 6 battleship

LVL 8 carrier

LVL 10 SH battleship & supercarriers



This would make it more interesting destroying ports

For example Germany will have to defend its well by sea & land fortifying them, this would simulate the the protectionbunkers Germans put on submarine bases (submarine bunkers). This would make it harder for allies to damage the dockyards, more fortifications = less % dmg possible by airraids & naval bombardments. (first the defenses would have to be damaged before the port can be damaged)


Other than that maybe other interesting things can be done with ports: for example the size of naval invasions could be determined by the size of your port, that way it would make sense to use more than 1 port for an invasion if you only have numerous small ports. This would simulate the logistical challenge of a naval invasion

The problem with this is that the dockyard can have a single large drydock like st Nazaire which could handle the Tirpitz. Or it could have multiple smaller drydocks capable of producing large numbers of small to medium size boats but nothing large. In HOI3 St Nazaire was only a level 3 port but none of the larger ports on the french atlantic coast could Dry-dock the Bismarck or Tirpitz.

 

[Axe99]

Excellent. Found it here:

At 20:14:
View attachment 171316
First thing, it's 1.13 years remaining, they are already about 30% produced. So a total time closer to 1.5 years.

Germany controls half of the Soviet Union at this stage, and still doesn't have any oil spare for building ships. Each dockyard requires oil, steel (4) and chromium (2). If we assume that no minors have the spare oil (other than Romania and Venezuela) and very few have the Chromium, then most minors (and even some majors if they are using their resources on other things), might be lacking two out of three resources. This can easily put build time to over 10 years if using 5 dockyards.

You wouldn't spend so long building a single ship that will be obsolete by the time it is commissioned, and might be sunk within weeks because you don't have the screens or air support to protect it.

You're a machine, and you're quite right - I'd misremembered the scale of it incorrectly - it looks closer to 1.8 years with 15 dockyards, which is a good deal better than 1. Thanks for digging it up and setting me straight . To get a five-year BB, with 3/4s of the resources, that'd be closer to 6 dockyards. As you say, if they're missing more resources, it could blow out to 10 easily. I still think it's too fast and easy, but it's not as bad as I recalled, which is a good thing.

On the shakedown cruisers, I also think they could be handy (and you could have something as simple as a lower level of experience that takes time to come up to green, where the time spent shaking down does that - the cost is the time - so if you have to, you could rush a Prince of Wales to the Denmark straight, but better to train them up if Germany isn't trying to get the Bismarck out to the Atlantic), but don't want to go derailing the thread .

 

[Alwar]

I still think that the best solution until we exactly know how much we can mod the production line is try to limit the ship production lines at 1 dockyard, essentially blocking the ability to set additional dockyards to work in the same line. Maybe limit it to 5 or so "dockyards" to somehow show the scalability of ship production but I think that could be better modeled with national focuses + technology + reenabling production efficiency for dockyards

All those ideas showed up in a old thread and found hard hostility to anything barely realistic. If nothing has changed right now you can build battleships in 8 months

 

[Secret Master]

Please, use the Oil ans Logistics megathread for your complaints about that, as was requested by Secret Master ;-).