Minimum range for MGs

[TGApples]

MGs attached to infantry squads have a minimum range of 100m. Below that they won't fire. I imagine this is an abstraction to represent targets in many directions making it infeasible to keep repositioning a big gun.

MGs on their own do not have a minimum range as far as I can tell.

I think they should. Makes for much more interesting play. Right now if you manage to charge down a MG squad you just get shot in the face and killed by a massive MG.

 

[ZhukoDim]

Yep. Need to happen. Maybe even 150 m min range for them.

 

[Klausewitz]

Nope.
If you charge an MG you deserve a face full of lead.
Never charge an MG.

 

[TheUrkkiMan]

Nope.
If you charge an MG you deserve a face full of lead.
Never charge an MG.

How about heavy-MG attack moving in a forest and bumping into a rifle squad 50m away?

 

[TRIUMPH]

The idea is to not have MG cqc everything into the ground and hopefully the game will have some unit diversity.

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

MG squads would need personal weapons then.

I'd prefer the distinction with HMGs being something like being better at causing casualties in cover/buildings, and reasonable competence at defeating halftracks; m3s were vulnerable to machinegun fire, although german halftracks were better armored. (not enough for 50 cal tho.)

 

[Max_Damage]

Squad MG already have a minimum range. Grenadiers wont shoot mgs at close range.

But i m not sure about vickers, and s.mg42 etc dedicated mg teams. But they also should have a minimum range which i think they dont have (please add min range for them)!

 

[TGApples]

I'm suprised at the amount of disagreement. Do you guys think it should be changed the other way around so that squads with attached MGs don't have a min range?

 

[Klausewitz]

How about heavy-MG attack moving in a forest and bumping into a rifle squad 50m away?

IIRC the MG has as its weapon one MG.
The squad has depending on type, one or two MGs, several rifles, an MP and probably even hand grenades.
I think they'll be fine.

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

It should be noted that weapons have different aiming/aligning times. It is not all peaches and cream for HMG squads at close range. It is kinda silly that the m1919 team can use its gun at point blank and the Ranger Supports cant tho.

 

[artemasward]

Some MGs only have a range of 500m anyway, and I believe the susceptibility to suppression that MG crews have effectively eliminates their combat effectiveness <100 meters anyway, unless its like a lone ersatz trooper. 150m minimum range is way too big, but a 50-100m range, with smgs for the crew (which only have a range of 100m anyway) would be a good option.

 

[TGApples]

IIRC the MG has as its weapon one MG.
The squad has depending on type, one or two MGs, several rifles, an MP and probably even hand grenades.
I think they'll be fine.

They don't have an MG, they're within its minimum range. They may have grenades, but probably not. Their rifles are outgunned by the MG.

 

[Klausewitz]

They don't have an MG, they're within its minimum range. They may have grenades, but probably not. Their rifles are outgunned by the MG.

Eugen will have to fix that then, no?

 

[TGApples]

Eugen will have to fix that then, no?

Sure, by making the MG squad have a minimim range

You seem to agree there's a problem in that case. You've not proposed a solution.

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

A longer align time, perhaps scaling longer at short range, would work.

 

[Klausewitz]

You seem to agree there's a problem in that case. You've not proposed a solution.

Oh, i am sorry. I should have made myself clearer.
My solution is no minimum range for nobody.

 

[Luckless]

Decrease the suppression effect over units if the engagement distance is too close, and pretty much remove it if the target is also in fairly hard cover:

If I have an MG and I'm facing off against a squad 500m away across a field, then I can sit there and tap away with a light spread across the whole line of them, putting them all at risk, thereby keeping their faces in the dirt.

If I'm facing off against against the same squad 20m away who are climbing through heavy stone ruins, then they spread out and make it impossible to aim at the group as a whole at any one time. Sure, I can pin a few of them, but the more they spread out around me, the less control I can take over them, and the firmer they can lock in on my position until one of them gets a clean shot at me.

I'm not going to stop firing my machine gun just because they've crossed some randomly selected line of distance, and it is going to be a bad day if they all try to come through the same door I happen to be pointed at at the same time, but the machine gun just isn't remotely the same effect once an enemy closes in.

 

[Klausewitz]

@Luckless:
+1

 

[TGApples]

That works, but I suspect something that complicated (and hard to put in a stat card) may not ever be implemented though.

 

[artemasward]

Which is why you abstract it. Just have suppression scale such that MGs are less effective at close range.