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DominusNovus

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Shall we share our best strategies for Ming?

- If colonizing, Mexico and California are the most useful, since their trade can be redirected to Asia. Peru's useful simply for the tariffs, and Colombia and Argentina are useful for establishing <5 colonial provinces in an area that will likely border Europeans, so you can westernize, and then settle the 5th afterward. Mexico should be your powerhouse colony, of course. A good trick to colonize is, after going Exploration, get over to America as quickly as possible and, using whatever CB you have (hopefully, you can rush through the Exploration group), annex the Aztecs and Inca. Immediately after conquering either, release them as vassals, build up your relations, and integrate them later, producing their respective colonial nations (handily, they'll spend their time converting their provinces in the meantime). Being able to release the countries as vassals rather than protectorates gives Chinese-tech colonizers a leg up in the race. The only problem is that, when you release your colonial nations, they'll be Chinese tech, so they'll have to westernize on their own. Oh well.

- Back in Asia, trade is somewhat obnoxious, since all your trade is going outward, other than the trade from the New World. Colonizing the Pacific Islands doesn't give you much benefit, other than a location for naval bases (and the force limit boost from that). Siberia's a good target for colonization. The provinces are part of your trade nodes, and, as an added bonus, you can cut off the Russians. I'm toying with the idea of moving my capital to the Yumen trade zone, to best manipulate East Asian trade. Even after WoN comes out and you can designate a trade capital, it might be useful to do so, if you have enough traders, setting your capital in Yumen, and your Trade Capital in Bengal, so you can control both the overland and oceanic trade routes. But thats for another day.

- Expansion should be through Central Asia. While South East Asia is rich, its somewhat tedious with its relatively small countries and rich provinces that prevent you from vassalizing major powers, and its quite likely that you'll westernize before integrating everything there, so that you're stuck with either outright invasion, protectorates, or just waiting until those nations westernize themselves. Not a problem with the Steppe Hordes and, again, your main concern will likely be Russia (at least, once you're powerful enough to not worry about the hordes themselves). Expansion against the hordes might be tricky in the early going, but once you've got cannon, you should have no trouble fielding impressive armies; manpower and cash are never a concern, so you can max out the size of your artillery for each given army and murder any opposing armies fairly well.

- My preferred faction is the Eunuchs, because they free up more traders, diplomatic relations, and, most importantly, give you a tech boost. Trying to play the game with 0 diplomatic relations is torture, especially if you want to be expansionist. I really don't see much to commend the Bureaucrats or Temple factions. You shouldn't be hurting for manpower as Ming, so the Temple faction isn't all that much use, and if you're expanding through vassalization, their core creation bonus isn't very useful. Meanwhile, the Bureaucrats give you cheaper buildings and better tax (but you're not hurting for money most of the time anyway), and better religious unity and stability (but there's enough events in the Celestial Empire to give you stability that I find myself only boosting stability in emergencies). So, Eunuchs it is.

Thats what I've got for the moment. Any other good ideas?
 

TheMeInTeam

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- Use all 3 factions. Keep their power balanced, and give the one you want a little bump.

- Colonizing Indonesia is worthwhile too, because it's considered part of Asia and directly contributes in tax, manpower, FL, and navy. It's lower priority than blocking Russia though.

- Most of SEA can be diplo-vassal due to your enormous base tax, starting with the guys not bordering you for that huge demerit.

- Eunich is the default faction, not just for relations (which are critical) but also for advisor costs - Ming can offset its crummy starting rulers to an extent via +3 advisors early.

- You can create a Mexican colony through vassal/annex as early as diplo tech 3, though you might struggle to defend it. I would consider colonizing to block Russia, then splitting time between colonial nations + spice islands if you think you can protect your colonies.

Unfortunately, if you westernize you can't vassal people any more, which is really useful to expand.
 

iLoveApples

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The ultimate strategy:
ming.jpg
After the decision:
Down means: "Yes, you can vassalise the target".
Right means: "No, you can't vassalise the target".

I forgot. Use the Eunuch faction, the rest are pretty much useless.
Also, don't westernise until you think the Europeans are out to get you. Even then, don't think about westernising, because when you do: no more vassals for you.
 
Last edited:

Golladan

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Yeah you'll probably be in the Eunuchs faction a lot. But you still want to switch to Bureaucrats when you're going to start a building project, recover stability, or need a new heir. And switch to Temple when at war. The -25% discipline hurts.
 

iLoveApples

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Yeah you'll probably be in the Eunuchs faction a lot. But you still want to switch to Bureaucrats when you're going to start a building project, recover stability, or need a new heir. And switch to Temple when at war. The -25% discipline hurts.

You need a new heir? Well, 3-4 vassals and royal marriages with them has always been enough for me. I know it's strange since that's +15% and there is still the -50% modifier, but I always had enough kids (unless 1.5 changed that). Building? Yeah, I don't really do that.
Maybe with the first war you'll feel the discipline, but otherwise you won't. With the Eunuchs you will be bathing in cash and you will have permanent +3 advisors and easily get your military tech up. Soon you will have taken the lead in Asia and your superior units won't notice the discipline anymore (unless 1.5 changed that).
 

DominusNovus

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I don't build too much until after westernizing, other than special buildings. All my monarch points go towards tech or ideas. After westernizing, the 999 cap added to being able to keep up with the tech cap provides a reason to spend points more aggressively.

Also, maybe its just me, but I could swear that my manufacturies didn't go up in price when the Bureaucrats were out of power.
 

unmerged(318660)

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- Never ever make any of your rulers or heirs a general, no matter how bad their stats are or how old they are, as long as they provide more than 60 legitimacy.
- Switch to bureaucrat faction when you currently have no legal heir.

This pretty much sums up my experience with Ming. I lost the mandate of heaven more than once, and it killed me - every time.
 

Thanik

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In my games:

1. Colonization - Asia is first - more production, tax and manpower, and more naval unit limit. And you avoid western countries , and Russia there.
Also at least one province in each trade node is a must.

2. Expansion - first all coastal provinces- so nobody will have more ships than you.
Also triple expansions is good for AE - Japan, Dai Viet and India region. Muslim nations as vassals, to avoid religious problem.
 

LarryLeica

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Also, maybe its just me, but I could swear that my manufacturies didn't go up in price when the Bureaucrats were out of power.

There was an exploit a few patches back were the penalties/bonuses for a faction change didn't kick in until the month change; it allowed you to keep all your merchants up when switching between factions as long you didn't move to the next month before you switched back to Eunuchs for example. I haven't played Ming since around 1.2 so I would hope this sort of thing was fixed.
 

DominusNovus

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- Never ever make any of your rulers or heirs a general, no matter how bad their stats are or how old they are, as long as they provide more than 60 legitimacy.

I can swear to this. Had a shitty heir, let him command my armies, and he died (the only frigging one without a backup, of course), and my Emperor was too old to have a new one before he died. Of course, the new guy ended up being worse than the original heir...
 

DominusNovus

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In my games:

1. Colonization - Asia is first - more production, tax and manpower, and more naval unit limit. And you avoid western countries , and Russia there.
Also at least one province in each trade node is a must.

2. Expansion - first all coastal provinces- so nobody will have more ships than you.
Also triple expansions is good for AE - Japan, Dai Viet and India region. Muslim nations as vassals, to avoid religious problem.

I have to disagree about Asia first, simply because I consider it actually a good thing to seek out the Western countries. Gotta westernize somehow.
 

TheDanish

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1) Manchu makes a great first target. Nine times out of ten in the first decade they'll war against either the Mongols (who are vassals of the Oirats) or Korea. If you ally with Korea, together you can take them on. If Manchu goes after the Mongols/Oirats, they'll lose and be cripppled, leaving you in a position to vassalize them in two wars.

2) As others have said, keep the Eunuchs in power 90% of the time. Temple for initial stages of war, peace settlements, and core creation. Bureaucracy for buildings and boosting stability. You don't need to keep the Bureaucrats around if you don't have an heir, but if your ruler is old it may be a good idea.

3) You -must- cut Russia off ASAP. I would pick Exploration or Expansion as your second idea group so you can colonize Siberia. The less land they have, the better. And the more Siberian land you have, the more you can scorch and retreat across when you (inevitably) go to war. Even when you Westernize they're gonna be a handful, so it's also imperative you ally with one of Russia's enemies. The Ottomans are a good choice.

4) You can expand into Asia pretty far before you Westernize, so you can grab a lot of vassals. Naturally, the Diplomatic idea is a great choice; and if you aren't planning on going for New World colonization, Expansion isn't a bad choice because it'll let you grab Siberia and give you more diplo relations for more vassals. Southeast Asia and India are going to be a bee's nest of alliances, so pick your war targets carefully. But once you take care of Manchu, the Oirats and Tibet, you should have a great manpower and tech lead over any SE Asian or Indian alliance network. In my latest game I managed to own half of India and had a PU over Vigayanagar before I Westernized.
 

Thanik

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I have to disagree about Asia first, simply because I consider it actually a good thing to seek out the Western countries. Gotta westernize somehow.

I mean good idea is to priotitise Asia first - you gain more income + manpower.
And you can send even one colonist to America/Africa to meet them, becouse you need only one province in Africa or Americas near western countries to westernize.
And also it is good idea to take Siberia at all cost to prevent green BLOB to get even more insane number of manpower.
 

DominusNovus

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The nice thing about going for America is that the most worthwhile place, Mexico, can be taken without any colonists, initially. Just a straight up conquest. After that, its a simple matter of sending one colonist out in a different colonial region (at minimum) near a westernized colony.