MING: INWARD PERFECTION IS GONE.

[tobias.mb]

I feel somewhat stupid right now - i played Ming, i played against Ming and i played far away from Ming. It only gets destroyed in the second "version". It never felt week, actually i never had a problem till westernization with any Horde (okey the one time, but this was me being stupid) or other asian country. If i read the posts here - Ming seems weak with the inward perfection..., i don't denied the fact its a heavy malus but...Ming felt really strong, actually i would even go as far as to compare them to the ottomans

Ming never was threatened by outside aggressors. They break apart if they get a low legitimacy ruler and the "mandate of heaven lost" modifier that comes with him.
It leads to high unrest -> massive rebellions.
And then once ming's manpower is depleted they are jumped from all sides, which tanks their prestige and manpower even further (even if they manage to win those wars); leaving them unable to deal with all the rebellions.
Ming is basically a block of dominos. Everything is fine as long as noone touches it, but if the first one falls it is only a matter of time until all fall.

 

[Kingsims]

Oirats start with a 5 shock 4 maneuver general right? also all the non mountain areas give 25% shock bonus with the patch that fixed it.

a 20 Oirat Troop stack should be able to rout a 30 unit stack of ming units at 1444.

 

[forrseti]

Finally Ming will be playable.

 

[Garevel]

Yea you get crushed by Oirats if you face them had on, pretty bad

 

[Gaussia]

While a buff it feels like the Ming flavour is slowly ticking down. What started as the only (?) unique goverment type now is at the same level as merchant republic faction with an added 50% min LA. Maybe they will be revamped later on?

 

[ahyangyi]

While a buff it feels like the Ming flavour is slowly ticking down. What started as the only goverment type that sucks beyond reason now is at the same level as merchant republic faction with an added 50% min LA. Maybe they will be revamped later on?

Fixed that for you

 

[tobias.mb]

While a buff it feels like the Ming flavour is slowly ticking down. What started as the only (?) unique goverment type now is at the same level as merchant republic faction with an added 50% min LA. Maybe they will be revamped later on?

I did a Ming playthrough once really early, when chinese tech still had only 2 mana / month, westernization progress could go down to 1 mana / month, and the factions were "more severe" (without eunuch faction you had 0 dip slots and without bureaucrat factions you had 100% more expensive advisors....)
Believe me in the beginning Ming was no fun to play as.

 

[LikeNothing]

Thanks for removing Inward Perfection. The joke among the Chinese fanbase

"法妖太强了, 我们来削大明吧!" (The BBB is overpowered, so let us nerf Ming!)

will be on its way out, it seems.

Just curious, is the hilarious name & description of the Temple Faction changed/gone? No hurry there, really. Otherwise there might be nothing the Chinese in particular can make fun of in this game - imagine that!

 

[Darkath]

Oirats start with a 5 shock 4 maneuver general right? also all the non mountain areas give 25% shock bonus with the patch that fixed it.

a 20 Oirat Troop stack should be able to rout a 30 unit stack of ming units at 1444.

Also Oirat are tech 3 while Chinese are tech 2 (lol)

 

[Krajzen]

OK guys, one important thing

now Celestial Empire government type has additional penalty: -33% land forcelimit

well, even with that, Ming is strongly buffed.


Indirect buff to Ming may be the fact that now Oirat and Buryatia have state/provincial religion of Tengri which should significantly mess with their stability and diplomacy while dealing with Sunnis on west and Buddhist on east.

 

[Will Steel]

Finally, Ming can be historically powerful against it's neighbours as it used to be.

 

[ywxiao]

I started a game as Ming, and one thing I noticed is that Faction events such as the Confucian->Mahayana province conversion are not firing anymore.
So I took a look at the game files, and noticed that the requirement has been changed to only fire in provinces with 5 base tax and 5 base manpower, that makes Beijing the only eligible province to randomly convert to Mahayana.

There are quite a few good events where the requirements were changed so that you basically won't see it unless you spend a lot of MP to upgrade your manpower first.

 

[Sukramo]

My Mings have litterally eradicated all the Manchu tribes. There is nothing left!

Flee, flee for your lives -Denethor of Gondor.

 

[Lord_P]

Thanks for removing Inward Perfection. The joke among the Chinese fanbase

"法妖太强了, 我们来削大明吧!" (The BBB is overpowered, so let us nerf Ming!)

will be on its way out, it seems.

Just curious, is the hilarious name & description of the Temple Faction changed/gone? No hurry there, really. Otherwise there might be nothing the Chinese in particular can make fun of in this game - imagine that!

Nope, still there.

I support the Temple faction in their efforts to acquire more Buddhists, as Buddhists have a tendency to translate to 'base tax' and 'manpower'.

 

[ywxiao]

Nope, still there.

I support the Temple faction in their efforts to acquire more Buddhists, as Buddhists have a tendency to translate to 'base tax' and 'manpower'.

Only in Beijing though, after the recent nerf.

 

[Lord_P]

Only in Beijing though, after the recent nerf.

Are you referring to the event "the Buddha's smile?"

 

[Zardnaar]

Tested Ming out and 30 ducats a month in 1444. That is about 3 times the size of Castiles income.

 

[PhroX]

I was playing as Dia Veit last night, and I saw something interesting from Ming which I hadn't seen before - they lost the Mandate of Heaven, had about a third of the country break off due to rebels, but managed to stabilise the situation, regain the Mandate, and have begun reconquering the lost territories. Prior to CS, that situation would've lead to them losing almost all of their lands and being unable to recover, so it looks to be somewhat more balanced.

 

[Will Steel]

Tried my first game as Ming as soon as I got the expansion. I waited, but no one declared war on me. Perhaps those nomadic tribes were too afraid to fight my large army.

I think this game really needs more building types. 16 building slots but a very few buildings, and 90% of those become obsolete later on.

 

[Reverend Belial]

Here's an idea:
Instead of countrywide maluses or whatever, turn Ming into an HRE style system with two kinds of member states. Tributaries would pay you dividends in exchange for your protection while duchies (for lack of a better name) are like extensions of your state, giving you a small portion of their taxes (to simulate corruption) and either all or most of their manpower and allow you to recruit in their territory (or possibly they don't do either and you would instead have to rely on a swarm of potentially disloyal vassals to handle battles for you, like I understand [possibly erroneously, Asia is not my forte] China historically did) and don't take a relation slot, but with potentially a high amount of unrest or disloyalty to further the idea of mostly autonomous local governments. That way you could still have a strong central area but a vast area of inefficient microstates composing the rest of your empire. To prevent abuse of the system and just annexing them or conquering most territory yourself they could be unannexable, and if you take X amount of territory in a contiguous area it would force you to create and release a new duchy. Sort of like local colonial nations. Maybe westernizing would make you absorb them like the HRE reforms do. Or maybe this is a stupid idea, I don't really know.