And what have they got in exchange? I find it dubious that you can take out such a massive list of modifiers for free without giving any compensation whatsoever.
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MING: INWARD PERFECTION IS GONE.
- Thread starter Krajzen
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They're usually justified, but it's pretty absurd to interpret huge buffs to Ming (which was overnerfed to the point of ridicule) as horde nerfs, especially when hordes got huge buffs at the same time.
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It won't change much outside of China no longer being hilariously easy to conquer. Ming still has some hard-hitting events that make the historical outcome somewhat more likely, although a "proper" Ming can reasonably deal with them. Unless someone declares on them during that time obviously, which is fairly historical too.
I've played some colonization games myself where I modded out all of the Ming "debuffs" to have some challenge late-game, and they still conquer next to nothing.
Ming's rulers are almost always diplomats so they rarely declare wars, usually they just get a few scraps off of Oirats when Ming has allied Manchu.
I've played some colonization games myself where I modded out all of the Ming "debuffs" to have some challenge late-game, and they still conquer next to nothing.
Ming's rulers are almost always diplomats so they rarely declare wars, usually they just get a few scraps off of Oirats when Ming has allied Manchu.
This is my point though, some people seem so invested in fighting the Horde rebellion against the evil designers of EU4 that they don't even notice when their pet Khans actually get a buff. It's more than a little tiresome.
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It's only 'weird' because people imagine we have some agenda to make playing hordes as miserable as possible. Since that has never been anything more than internet hysteria, it's actually not weird at all.
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You're wrong. It means hordes get the same shock bonus on flat territory introduced in AoW, but still only in their own land.
I think you should create a sticky post about "Hordes nerfs", its more than enough, every patch we got complaints post for hordes, its annoying
On a sort of related note, can you revert Qing's color back to the original gold? The new neon yellow is really jarring and annoying to look at.
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Sorry about that. I reported that Qing and Jin bordered each other and had the same color. I wrongly thought Jin would get a color change. After the color change I've felt like I deserve harsh treatment for suggesting it.
Were they not getting those bonuses on their own farmlands and drylands before? I haven't played a Horde in forever, so I'm not sure if somehow those bonuses were not working before on farmlands and drylands. But if they were, it makes no sense to put them in a list of patch changes if they weren't changed somehow.
They weren't working since the new terrain was introduced. I'd guess it was just an oversight. Qara Qoyunlu was really hurt by the lack of drylands bonus though.
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And what about people fighting American Native rebellion against evil designers?
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HEY! Their hatred for natives is real!
On a serious note though, that's not really the same thing, there are a lot of people that want more stuff for the natives, but noone really seems to think that Paradox are hell-bent on destroying them.
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I think, these days, it is more of a forum meme than anything serious. However, it has some basis, as, in the past, the hordes did suffer a whole series of nerfs, over successive patches, despite the fact that they weren't even close to overperforming to begin with. Said nerfs didn't just reduce the capabilties of hordes but they significantly reduced the gameplay options available to the player. As such, some people are still a little bitter.
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What hordes received were fixes to a wide range of exploits and cheese that were mostly never supposed to be there to begin with. Now that horde gameplay is no longer completely defined by gamey stuff that the AI can't do, we can actually work on their *real* mechanics. This is a process that has happened to a number of features in EU4 over the course of its development (for example, vassals and vassal feeding).
Or you know, we hate hordes and nerf them out of spite because that is absolutely how a game designer approaches mechanics in his own game.
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Repeating a justified complaint does not make it less so. Fix it and we'll stop complaining.
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Yawn. Just ridiculous.
Anyhow, I agree with the fixes that happened so far with the hordes. This patch seems to resolve the 'unique' factors associated with their gameplay. The looting, terrain fix and BROT buffs are exactly what was missing. Anything else added will be welcome, but doesn't seem necessary anymore.
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