Well this makes Qing rather pointless. I guess they gave up trying to represent the Qing?
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MING: INWARD PERFECTION IS GONE.
- Thread starter Krajzen
- Start date
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Nope, hordes can use 100% cav and do 25% extra shock damage in home lands, plus tech 8 cav(and tech 11) is vastly superior to infantry because of the modifers.
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Interpreting the removal of Ming's inward perfection as a nerf to hordes is somewhat stretching it.
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There is no point playing one of the Manchu tribes now so yes, it's an indirect nerf to Hordes. Unless Qing also counts as a Chinese culture union, which there was no indication of in the patch notes.
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Wait, shouldn't you play a Manchu tribe just because it sounds cool?
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"There is no point playing one of the Manchu tribes now"
Except... for fun?
Except... for fun?
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"There is no point playing one of the Manchu tribes now"
Except... for fun?
Hordes were pretty fun several patches ago. Now, not so much.
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Yeah that was my first thought, through Ming losing always is as absurd as never losing.
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If Ming is really strong to begin this patch (big if, still a lot of downsides!) could we find a way to make the favor of heaven easier to lose? Like if you defeated Ming in several pitched battles as the Manchu or Japan, ect that would start the crumbling pretty quickly, without having to potentially siege down the giantness of China while the Ming simply rebuilt their armies
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I like the fact that Ming might actually survive past 1600 now... In almost every single play through I did in 1.11, China by 1700 would be a scattered mess of weak, independent countries. Maybe a reduction of the effects (cut in half?), without a complete removal, may have been a better course but either way I'm just glad I wont be seeing the same exact AI Ming implosion that I would usually see in the current version
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This makes me want to take a fresh look at a Jurchen game. The past strategy was real simple. Get a few mil techs ahead of Ming and after unifying into Manchu, obliterate their paper-thin stacks. Ming is still going to have limited manpower and they've got a force limit malus to their government type now and if they lose the mandate of heaven they're going to explode, so they aren't going to be the France of the east any time soon. Still I don't think you'll be able to fight them outnumbered 4:1 without batting an eye. I'll be glad if Qing feels like an accomplishment.
I keep seeing players post the reunifcation CB as if it was created for Ming. I seriously doubt it.
It is more likely around for the Chinese revolter states so they can unite the region under a new dynasty faster.
The fact that it was stated that separatist rebels can occur specifically for Ming if they lose the Mandate (even if in cultural union) probably means there are more revolts scripted as are other events to make losing the Mandate more common. This was something that was needed for a long time, but is hard to do when Ming had additional maluses on top of the autonomy caps. Ming having to deal with more internal rebellions is something that is promoted in some other popular mods, and wouldn't surprise me if it was finally picked up for vanilla.
Also not mentioned was that the hordes have shock bonuses in all farmlands and drylands now. Not just their own. Since there are vast areas of Ming that are this terrain, wars vs northern alliances will be even more costly than before.
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Where does it say the Celestial Empire is getting a force limit malus? Can't find it in the patch notes.
I have completely ceased to take complaints about horde nerfs seriously at this point. It's become more a weird forums cult than anything.
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