Militia, partisan and garrison is gone?

[Bridger15]

Yes. In HoI 4 you can decide which kind of equipment, training and supply priority a division can have. Thus, you can create untrained, low equipped, low prioritized division (= militia/garrison divisions). But you cannot decide which kind of equipment and training a regiment inside one division can have.

I don't understand, why would you want to do that? The game is played at the Division level. What does it matter the exact makeup of each regiment if the division is properly simulated as militia/garison/whatever you want based on what equipment/units you assign?

I think one of the first things I will mod in that Infantry needs Support Equipment ( representing MG´s, Mortars, InfantryGuns & other light Guns ... etc. ).

So consequently Militia in this mod would not need support eq., being cheaper and less capable.

Wha? You're going to screw with the balance because you think "support equipment" defines things infantry need instead of "infantry equipment"? Can't you just accept in your head that infantry equipment includes everything an infantry regiment needs including MGs/mortars/etc.? Support equipment seems to be used for the support companies and their specialized equipment.

I created a thread just like this several months ago. Many of the responses were training and equipment dictated militia and garrison units. However, several people, including myself pointed out that that is fine for normal healthy young recruits, but not older, maimed, or unsuitable recruits due to poor health - which would however qualify as militia units.

Militia cannot be represented accurately in this game unless there is some sort of secondary manpower count showing unsuitable recruits

The Hell? This utterly perplexes me. Why do you think this needs to be simulated? How does this grant you more interesting decisions? Scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel already results in less troops as they take longer to train, and their equipment is only weaker if you can't afford to produce enough equipment to supply all your divisions needs.

 

[Nicolas I]

Because infantry equipment is the equipment for the squad...

They could at least call that "infantry squad equipment" to reflect this.

 

[Daelyn75]

The Hell? This utterly perplexes me. Why do you think this needs to be simulated? How does this grant you more interesting decisions? Scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel already results in less troops as they take longer to train, and their equipment is only weaker if you can't afford to produce enough equipment to supply all your divisions needs.

Why would you respond that way?

You also mean more troops but longer to train. I never said it needs to be simulated, or that I even want it to with a secondary manpower count. Getting more manpower but longer training times does not equal having unfit recruits enter the military however. The scraping the bottom of the barrel conscription law is a band-aid for this, and instead would reflect taking every farmer and factory worker out of the workforce and into your military.

Unfit soldiers wouldn't join regular units, since they wouldn't be able to cope with the demands upon them.

With the scraping the bottom of the barrel law if you also reduce the efficiency and or fighting power of your units, then that could possibly fit better, but it would still be unrealistic since a man without a leg, or a man suffering from some serious disease wouldn't be put into regular army units.

Until something represents the lesser fighting ability of the unfit soldiers then it's not realistic.

 

[Invictus5966]

I do have a question perhaps someone can answer. I saw Daniel make garrison XXs with some Cav and MPs. In HOI3 Cavs were used cause they are faster to chase down rebels. Is this still needed in HOI4 with no actually rebel troops? Could we use couple INF and a MP units instead of HOI3s Cav and MP?

 

[GsusNSV]

I do have a question perhaps someone can answer. I saw Daniel make garrison XXs with some Cav and MPs. In HOI3 Cavs were used cause they are faster to chase down rebels. Is this still needed in HOI4 with no actually rebel troops? Could we use couple INF and a MP units instead of HOI3s Cav and MP?

You can use Inf, but Cav is far better for it, as it has 5 suppression. (against Inf with only 1) So every full infantry brigade has the same suppression as a single cavalary battalion.

 

[Zaku]

They could at least call that "infantry squad equipment" to reflect this.

That's just nitpicking IMO. It's called infantry equipment, and adding one more word to it isn't gonna change it's meaning.

 

[Axe99]

I don't understand, why would you want to do that? The game is played at the Division level. What does it matter the exact makeup of each regiment if the division is properly simulated as militia/garison/whatever you want based on what equipment/units you assign?

You could, for example, bolster the size of your forces by having a division with two "front line" brigades with a frontline level of infantry and support equipment, and one militia brigade, that helps make up the numbers but isn't as well equipped. It happened historically, and it's something I'd also be interested in seeing modded in. It might be a level of detail to far for the vanilla game, but there's nothing wrong with wanting it in there.

Wha? You're going to screw with the balance because you think "support equipment" defines things infantry need instead of "infantry equipment"? Can't you just accept in your head that infantry equipment includes everything an infantry regiment needs including MGs/mortars/etc.? Support equipment seems to be used for the support companies and their specialized equipment.

I think what they're getting at is the idea of using support equipment to proxy the greater range of equipment frontline units had, compared with militia units. I'd probably use a different ratio of infantry equipment : manpower myself (noting I'm not all up on my TO&Es) but I can't see any issues with using support equpiment for this as well (I have no doubt regular battalions/brigades also had better radios/medical equipment/etc.,). It needn't screw with balance if implemented well.

The Hell? This utterly perplexes me. Why do you think this needs to be simulated? How does this grant you more interesting decisions? Scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel already results in less troops as they take longer to train, and their equipment is only weaker if you can't afford to produce enough equipment to supply all your divisions needs.

At the moment, even if they take longer to train, they can still perform all the duties of a regular unit, and I think achieve their level of experience, with time. However, due to age/infirmity, this was never the case for most of these units. A Dad's Army Home Guard unit was never, ever going to be as capable as a regular frontline infantry battalion, no matter how much training or combat experience it had. Having militia units that will only ever be militia units means more careful unit management (player decision making) is required, and enables for deeper manpower management as well. I'm not saying it's necessary (I haven't really thought about it - only got so much brain, and I'm all over ships at the moment) but it's a perfectly reasonable thing to want to at least mod in, if not have in the base game.

 

[panzerzombie]

Wha? You're going to screw with the balance because you think "support equipment" defines things infantry need instead of "infantry equipment"? Can't you just accept in your head that infantry equipment includes everything an infantry regiment needs including MGs/mortars/etc.? Support equipment seems to be used for the support companies and their specialized equipment.

tsk, tsk.....Why so agitated about that, I won´t touch YOUR game, I promise ? Can you accept in your head that I have another opinion about that topic ? Balance - other than everyone may need to produce a bit more SupEq - is not touched by that if you do it right. And after this mod I will be able to produce militia types ... which I cannot right now.

 

[Nicolas I]

That's just nitpicking IMO. It's called infantry equipment, and adding one more word to it isn't gonna change it's meaning.

I would prefer they add one zero rather than a word.

Had you read my post, you would have seen I was answering to someone saying "infantry equipment is the equipment for the squad", hence the need to add the word squad.

 

[leeuw]

I don't understand, why would you want to do that? The game is played at the Division level. What does it matter the exact makeup of each regiment if the division is properly simulated as militia/garison/whatever you want based on what equipment/units you assign?

And divisions are designed at a battalion level, with the final stats of a division depending upon its battalion+company structure.
There could be different kind of militia regiments which can give some boni like suppression points (and some mali) to the final division, resulting in a wider range of division types which will give more flavour to the game.
And quoting panzerzombie: don't worry, we will not oblige you to play our modded versions

 

[Nicolas I]

...If you try to do the equipment per man then you need a way of deciding the ratios of sub machine guns and all the rest. The way Paradox have done it is much easier and makes more sense.

If you buy a share of a company, you got a tiny fraction of the enterprise, they don't have to calculate which % of which plant, building or warehouse you own.

So no need to calculate the "ratio of sub machine guns and all the rest" (by the way I saw nowhere how much of each was supposed to be in a pack for squad), 1 infantry equipment should be what is needed for 1 soldier (or one tenth of a squad pack if you prefer), the way they share it between themselves is irrelevant as the combats are calculated on a division/battalion level, not by individual soldier.

 

[Secret Master]

You could, for example, bolster the size of your forces by having a division with two "front line" brigades with a frontline level of infantry and support equipment, and one militia brigade, that helps make up the numbers but isn't as well equipped. It happened historically, and it's something I'd also be interested in seeing modded in. It might be a level of detail to far for the vanilla game, but there's nothing wrong with wanting it in there.

I was thinking of doing something similar as China if it was easy to mod.

A division template with one battalion of infantry with best equipment, and multiple battalions of infantry with crappy equipment from the crappy equipment stockpile (which China would have a lot of). You could then morph the template over time as China got access to better and better weapons.

 

[leeuw]

I was thinking of doing something similar as China if it was easy to mod.

A division template with one battalion of infantry with best equipment, and multiple battalions of infantry with crappy equipment from the crappy equipment stockpile (which China would have a lot of). You could then morph the template over time as China got access to better and better weapons.

But the problem is that you cannot decide which kind of equipment a single battalion can have. You can only define the type of equipment the whole division will have. Is it right?
Thus, to realize something like this is necessary to introduce a new infantry unit type (militia) with different stats, as it was done previously in HoI3.

 

[Denkt]

You can mod in different types of battalions who have different equipment requirement like:

• Militia: 10 infantry equipment
• Infantry: 8 infantry equipment and 2 heavy equipment

 

[Frosted Vert]

They could at least call that "infantry squad equipment" to reflect this.

It's not just squad equipment though. Think of it also accounting for the equipment of the cooks, clerks, and other staff.

 

[leeuw]

You can mod in different types of battalions who have different equipment requirement like:

• Militia: 10 infantry equipment
• Infantry: 8 infantry equipment and 2 heavy equipment

Yep. I had to write "different stats and equipment requirements".