Military & Transparency Quality Mechanics

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dwelch

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Hey Paradox & General Forum-ers,

I'd first off like to say that this is not a rage post. This is a genuine inquiry on design. A few questions:

1) Are the AI supposed to opt out of the war goals I send them? My colonial nations won't go to the provinces I want them to capture (they rarely leave the New World), and the AI allies tend to either ignore my wargoals or focus on areas completely separate from the ones I've pointed out.

2) Do the AI tend to fan out in general in terms of troops? In a recent war of mine my allies spread themselves very thin as France stack swiped them with death stacks, which didn't need to happen because my Allies had more than enough troops together to battle France. Is there a way to set their behavior, like I can with my vassals/marches/colonial nations?

3) Are you guys working on making the military strength/quality mechanics more transparent? I often have a hard time judging the relative quality of my military against another nation. I know generally what affects it (discipline, military tactics, morale, combat ability, generals, etc.) but it's hard to get an overall sense of quality. Perhaps there could be some overall score based on the summation of these traits that I could use to cross-compare nations?

For a little context I'm playing through a Portugal Game in AoW and recently France went from being a great ally to a bitter rival. That's fine, tends to happen all the time. I know France is hard to beat, if not impossible, so I look around and try to get some allies.

I ended up with Myself, my March Galicia (we split Iberia half and half), my Colonial nations (I pretty much own all of South America & MesoAmerica) and surprisingly beefed up Brandenburg, Austria, and Venice to tackle France. We have more than double their forces on land and water, and brandenburg has one of the highest quality troops in the game, from what I can tell, which led me to believe I could *potentially* defeat France. It was a gamble, but I thought a reasonable one given what information I had going in.

We ended up getting trounced. Partially because my allies ignored the goals I gave them and spread themselves very thin. They didn't support one another from France's stacks, which also had overwhelming quality to them. I realize from a design perspective France is supposed to be powerful, so I'm not going to squabble with that, and I'm actually okay with losing since that makes the game interesting, but from a transparency point of view it would be nice to have some sort of way of gauging my alliance's strength relative to someone else other than sheer troop #'s or the %'s given on the "choose rivals" screen.
 

Pornek

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3) Are you guys working on making the military strength/quality mechanics more transparent? I often have a hard time judging the relative quality of my military against another nation. I know generally what affects it (discipline, military tactics, morale, combat ability, generals, etc.) but it's hard to get an overall sense of quality. Perhaps there could be some overall score based on the summation of these traits that I could use to cross-compare nations?

The military score ?
 

ChildeR

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1) Are the AI supposed to opt out of the war goals I send them? My colonial nations won't go to the provinces I want them to capture (they rarely leave the New World), and the AI allies tend to either ignore my wargoals or focus on areas completely separate from the ones I've pointed out.

CNs are not supposed to leave the New World at all.
 

Achanei

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The military score ?
er, no. score is really arbitrary and not a good way of comparing actual military power.

During any game, the things I check to see ho hard a war is going to be are, by order of importance: tactics, troop amount > generals, manpower > artillery - infantry ratio, morale, discipline, chokepoints (mountain province I can use to declare conquest on, straits etc) > rest (tbh I only check infantry pips if its a really close call, and combat ability....meh)
 

Pornek

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er, no. score is really arbitrary and not a good way of comparing actual military power.

During any game, the things I check to see ho hard a war is going to be are, by order of importance: tactics, troop amount > generals, manpower > artillery - infantry ratio, morale, discipline, chokepoints (mountain province I can use to declare conquest on, straits etc) > rest (tbh I only check infantry pips if its a really close call, and combat ability....meh)

Its not really arbitrary. You can see their tactics, discipline, quality, morale, leaders, # of troops in the score.
 

Sorellis

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CNs are only useful in their home region so don't expect them to be terribly useful.

Allies are a bit better but as you mentioned do seem to act erratically sometimes. Luckily, the enemy behaves in this way too. Try to exploit this when you go to war. In my experience I find France or any other major will have 2-3 big stacks and often sends them to different fronts. With this in mind, try and tackle half of of the French army and let your allies do the rest.

Another tactic is to just follow your ally's stacks around so that you can join in any major battle they happen to walk into. This can be a challenge though depending on the number of allies you have.
 

spinoza013

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Allied AI certainly seems to be making a lot of strange decisions since 1.8. I've had attached troops suddenly become exiled and move off, I've had them ignore attach command and travel 7 provinces away to become isolated sieging the furthest away enemy province, I've yet to have any allies accept siege goals.

While the enemy AI has vastly improved the above uncertainty in allies has cost me at least one war that I would have been certain in winning in 1.7 and has since that made planning a war with a modicum of certainty almost impossible.

Which might be a good thing. It certainly spices things up even though there is sometimes no rational way of explaining to oneself about why an ally now does certain things.
 

spinoza013

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Another tactic is to just follow your ally's stacks around so that you can join in any major battle they happen to walk into. This can be a challenge though depending on the number of allies you have.

And it depends on military access agreements too
 

Illianor123

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War goals I found rarely worked, but if they had a claim/core they seemed to follow it. Otherwise it would take about 3 months for them to sort themselves out and siege the war goals.

The best thing I have been seeing though is England landing moderate sized stacks all around the world when in wars. Moderate sized stacks being only a but smaller than the enemy stacks, but enough to turn close battles into sure victories
 

spinoza013

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True. but that is not a common issue. The AI seems to keep its troops in the territory of those participating in the war, rather than parking them in the territory of a third party.

Try telling that to my Allies then ;P because it happens a lot
 

spinoza013

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War goals I found rarely worked, but if they had a claim/core they seemed to follow it. Otherwise it would take about 3 months for them to sort themselves out and siege the war goals.

The best thing I have been seeing though is England landing moderate sized stacks all around the world when in wars. Moderate sized stacks being only a but smaller than the enemy stacks, but enough to turn close battles into sure victories

I've seen a Scottish/French army siege Lithuanian Crimea down in the Black sea. :) In a War over Orkney
 

dwelch

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Its not really arbitrary. You can see their tactics, discipline, quality, morale, leaders, # of troops in the score.

The score is a good point and I'll make sure to check that out next time... although I'd like to see some talking about a way to take the qualities like tactics, morale, discipline, etc. and turn them into an overall "army quality" measure. I don't want to have to do math every time I try to figure out how good my army is in comparison to another. For example, I might have 115% discipline with good morale and military tactics, but how does that stack up against someone with 105% discipline with good morale but EXCELLENT military tactics? I feel like for the average player, judging military strength feels very holistic. I get you can find mountain provinces and rivers to beef up, I just feel like it would be a positive addition to have a more direct way of comparing military quality/strength.
 

Achanei

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Its not really arbitrary. You can see their tactics, discipline, quality, morale, leaders, # of troops in the score.
to avoid misunderstandings, I assumed you were recommending to look at the military score points directly and use them to compare military strength - with that, I'd strongly disagree. If you meant that looking at the military score and hw its composed, and using that and the mechanics knowledge to get information about some things you can't see ingame, that'd work I guess, though I usually just go with the military ledger page.

The score is a good point and I'll make sure to check that out next time... although I'd like to see some talking about a way to take the qualities like tactics, morale, discipline, etc. and turn them into an overall "army quality" measure. I don't want to have to do math every time I try to figure out how good my army is in comparison to another. For example, I might have 115% discipline with good morale and military tactics, but how does that stack up against someone with 105% discipline with good morale but EXCELLENT military tactics? I feel like for the average player, judging military strength feels very holistic. I get you can find mountain provinces and rivers to beef up, I just feel like it would be a positive addition to have a more direct way of comparing military quality/strength.

tactics trumps all but exceedingly superior numbers. discipline an morale only starts to matter if troop #s, generals and tactics are about even. its really not that hard, play the game for a while and from different positions of strength, and you will get a feeling for it.