• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

llib

Colonel
96 Badges
Oct 7, 2005
846
114
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Ancient Space
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
In HOI2(and DD and ARM), leaders management in peace only makes sense in assigning the logistic wizards to divisions. There is no development of leaders and you are only bound to historical ones. This area has lot of space for improvement - whole tab worth - for leaders development, first nation would have screen to build selected type of academy - land, air, naval(of course nations that have their own education institutions at the time would start with one already). When nation that historically had no coast(and no navy) would want to expand, he could build one and start producing own leaders(not just temporary ones).
On academy, leaders would have possibility to increase their skills and gain some educational traits, while by leading the assigned units even in peacetime they would gain competency for leadership on that particular level in time(could have some random from start). Easy way to do it would be leadership competency on level of division(or hopefully smaller unit in HOI3 ;) ), corps level, army level, army group level, and theater/front level. Leader would gain competency for each by leading certain number of smallest organizational units(divisions in HOI2). Harder way to do it would be implementing of more complex armed forces structure. Leader would only very slowly gain competency on higher level if he would not have one on lesser level. Some talented would gain bonuses to speed this up. In the end, skill level would only apply as percentage multiplication of his appropriate competency and his skill(therefore efficient skill).
If the more complex variant would make it, the now-existing government page would be split in two - one for civil and other for military affairs, where possibly new posts would appear dynamically as new fronts would appear - could be done in similar way like nation unification events in EU3 to trigger new area territorially that should have leader, and/or by armed forces size.
Obvious opportunities for diplomacy, like provide training for lesser states/friendly states with different military doctrine are there also(as for doctrine, player would have possibility to alter it to some extent on various levels, and this would in the end affect which traits are much likely to be gained for both leaders on academy and in active leadership).
 
Upvote 0

unmerged(85765)

Sergeant
2 Badges
Oct 19, 2007
98
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
Maybe have military academies buildable to increase experience and morale of units that have a academy. Also, having leaders being able to develop would also usher in the need to have exercises and war games as part of the game systym and have "training commands."
Training commands would be units that you would assign other units to to gain experience, morale, and org. They would be a blank corps with nothing assigned to it. You would assign units to it. One at a time to each command. And over time they would gain experience and other traits as well as improving the division commanders traits. It would increase experience at like 0.5/week and morale at 1/week. Of course there would be a cap to exp. and morale earned. maybe like 10 exp. and 15 morale.
Just an idea,
David
 

Balesir

AoD's Old Geezer
146 Badges
Dec 23, 2005
3.145
1.700
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 200k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For The Glory
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • East India Company
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
I think the idea of increasing armed forces competence in peacetime is a good one, but I think details such as academies, training schools and such are too fiddly and unnecessary.

The basic tradeoff is between cost (in money, oil, supplies and so on for trainers, gear used up during exercises, etc.) and proficiency gain (commander exp. and traits, unit experience). It seems to me this could be handled via a 'training intensiveness' slider with minimal upkeep costs and minimal EXP gain at one end and a maximal peacetime gain in expertise and experience but greatly inflated costs at the other. Moving this slider should be possible at any time, not limited by time period as with the political sliders (more like the 'upkeep cost' sliders in EU et al).
 

unmerged(85765)

Sergeant
2 Badges
Oct 19, 2007
98
0
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
Balesir said:
I think the idea of increasing armed forces competence in peacetime is a good one, but I think details such as academies, training schools and such are too fiddly and unnecessary.

The basic tradeoff is between cost (in money, oil, supplies and so on for trainers, gear used up during exercises, etc.) and proficiency gain (commander exp. and traits, unit experience). It seems to me this could be handled via a 'training intensiveness' slider with minimal upkeep costs and minimal EXP gain at one end and a maximal peacetime gain in expertise and experience but greatly inflated costs at the other. Moving this slider should be possible at any time, not limited by time period as with the political sliders (more like the 'upkeep cost' sliders in EU et al).

I really like that idea, it would represent the idea while keeping it simple.
David
 

llib

Colonel
96 Badges
Oct 7, 2005
846
114
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Ancient Space
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
Balesir said:
I think the idea of increasing armed forces competence in peacetime is a good one, but I think details such as academies, training schools and such are too fiddly and unnecessary.

The basic tradeoff is between cost (in money, oil, supplies and so on for trainers, gear used up during exercises, etc.) and proficiency gain (commander exp. and traits, unit experience). It seems to me this could be handled via a 'training intensiveness' slider with minimal upkeep costs and minimal EXP gain at one end and a maximal peacetime gain in expertise and experience but greatly inflated costs at the other. Moving this slider should be possible at any time, not limited by time period as with the political sliders (more like the 'upkeep cost' sliders in EU et al).
Well I believe this would not be anything new/cool - there already is slider for this(even if it works differently than you propose), and leaves peacetime management at pretty much nothing except for starting factories production in beginning of the game/after few months and assigning the techteams/logistic specialist to army units. The random events in politics can't fill this gap as politics are simplified to few sliders and random events actually don't give much control about it - you can mostly chose from two things you did not wanted.
I would also like some more complexity at unit level, but don't know how to make it really not one-time thing and still keep it in not-too-complex level, in difference to this leadership stuff seems pretty manageable if done in right manner(and it seems feasible to me).
As for supplies/material used, peacetime training is far from full-scale war spending, therefore there should be only very little if any at all difference in fuel/supply consumption for units in training.

EDIT: minor changes/additions
 
Last edited:

Balesir

AoD's Old Geezer
146 Badges
Dec 23, 2005
3.145
1.700
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • 200k Club
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For The Glory
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • East India Company
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
If you are referring to the 'standing army/draft' slider, I don't think that relates to the same thing at all - it is a tradition and basic training style thing. What we are talking about here are field exercises to increase tactical and battlefield expertise - and while I agree this will not use as much supplies (= ammo and spares, basically) and fuel as real war, it will use a lot more than sitting in barracks or square bashing.

I see what you are after (I think), but I'm not convinced the armed forces are the place to do it. I think peacetime activity can be quite busy and varied with a few tweaks in other areas:
  • Have trade deals use TCs or convoys (see suggestions elsewhere on this forum) to make them even more critical to set up.
  • Use the supply and logistics system discussed in another thread to make Infrastructure planning more important.
  • Permit resources development and prospecting via Infrastructure and IC development.
  • Have bases be the conduit through which units are built - so, for e.g., a naval base is where naval units are built, using ICs from the surrounding area, with a limit of 1 capital ship per 2 size and 1 screen/sub unit per 1 size of naval base; i.e. a size 3 base can make 1 capital ship and 1 screen or 3 screens at any one time. This will make base building and planning more critical.
Things like this should make pre-planning more tricky and important.
 

llib

Colonel
96 Badges
Oct 7, 2005
846
114
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Ancient Space
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
Balesir said:
If you are referring to the 'standing army/draft' slider, I don't think that relates to the same thing at all - it is a tradition and basic training style thing. What we are talking about here are field exercises to increase tactical and battlefield expertise - and while I agree this will not use as much supplies (= ammo and spares, basically) and fuel as real war, it will use a lot more than sitting in barracks or square bashing.
I believe field exercises can't be just done by single slider and actually be interesting. Maneuvers were not whole army training - it was either staff exercise and/or smaller units training mostly(up to division level, exceptions confirm rule), and only limited amount of major units could actually attend such exercises each year - and in drafted armies, you would lose experience in one-two years pretty much as new recruits would be drafted, which would become extremely boring in game or extremely inaccurate if left out. So I don't see this as area suitable for reasonable improvement.
Balesir said:
I see what you are after (I think), but I'm not convinced the armed forces are the place to do it. I think peacetime activity can be quite busy and varied with a few tweaks in other areas:
  • Have trade deals use TCs or convoys (see suggestions elsewhere on this forum) to make them even more critical to set up.
As for trade deals, there is space for improvement but only by implementing special factories(gun factory, small arms, airframe, ...)/internal cooperation, but I'm skeptical about this, trade is still pretty boring in HOI2DDAR, something like necessary evil. As for convoys, they were none during peacetime. As for transport capacity... I have checked top of thread "How to simulate Supply routes / TC correctly"... nodes are interesting idea, however - what really new would it bring us? I believe improving supply efficiency mechanism is way to do this, and seeing that there are still big problems with AI handling of convoy systems/naval units deployment, I don't thing Paradox can do something as complex and make AI smart enough to really use it without serious flaws.
Balesir said:
  • Use the supply and logistics system discussed in another thread to make Infrastructure planning more important.
If you refer to "How to simulate Supply routes / TC correctly", well, it's just not gonna happen, if it would then maybe for fuel/supplies, not for resources. I have little coding experience, this would end up being either one hell of pathfinding for AI or pretty much predefined. And honestly, if you would have to do it on front that is rolling back and forward, it would just not be fun.
Balesir said:
  • Permit resources development and prospecting via Infrastructure and IC development.
Well... prospecting can be done, if game time-frame would extend a lot. If not, it's not worth, or would be very unrealistic(if the coal just is not there, it is not there no matter how much infrastructure you build).
Balesir said:
  • Have bases be the conduit through which units are built - so, for e.g., a naval base is where naval units are built, using ICs from the surrounding area, with a limit of 1 capital ship per 2 size and 1 screen/sub unit per 1 size of naval base; i.e. a size 3 base can make 1 capital ship and 1 screen or 3 screens at any one time. This will make base building and planning more critical.
Things like this should make pre-planning more tricky and important.
As for bases - there was big base in Singapore, and you know, it just wasn't place where you would build ships. I would be interested in more types of industry, like gun factory, steel factory, airframes and such, and unit building in production pool would consume some units of different facilities, but I would really not like this approach of bases. I have played Pacific storm, it's just not way to go for map size of HOI. Sorry for being bit sceptic.