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Foelsgaard

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I think whack-a-mole rebels in general should be phased out in favor of less random, less annoying, but more frightening things.

Instead of having a vague "revolt risk", you could have a "revolution-meter" that measured how close a province/pop/culture was to revolting.
If, for instance, your farmers are pretty fed up with you overtaxing them and favouring the industry then their militancy would be high and they would be close to revolution. If some event should happen that pushed their militancy above the limit, say a lost war or bad election, then the game would check all provinces and roll a die weighed for militancy to see if it joins the revolution.
If you have a lot of angry farmers and aristocrats, but your industrial workers, capitalists and beaurocrats are just peachy, then you would see most of your rural undeveloped provinces rising up against you. Sort of like the American Civil War.

You could add all sorts of weighings and conditions on the die rolls (only roll in same culture provinces, close provinces more likely to revolt, and so on).

In short, instead of militancy being converted to a "revolt risk", one pop (or state or province) reaching a certain level of militancy sparks a larger rebellion.

EDIT: Also, I believe militancy should lower productivity. It seems like a nice incentive to keep your people very happy, instead of just not angry enough for revolution.
 
Last edited:

Snall

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I certanily agree that I hate whack-a-mole...I used to just cover my provinces in soldier stacks..that's no way to play. So any idea to curtail that is good imo.
 

Foelsgaard

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I certanily agree that I hate whack-a-mole...I used to just cover my provinces in soldier stacks..that's no way to play. So any idea to curtail that is good imo.

I think it would feel more right to fear that the buildup of unhappiness in your nation would result in a large and threatening revolution rather than fear it would result in carpal tunnel syndrome.
 

unmerged(75409)

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Apr 30, 2007
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I very much like that idea. You should be able to get some sort of province effect that tells you the people here are pissed off. And if one of the provinces rebels, it should set off a chain reaction in all bordering provinces with that effect.

You could even have different province effects...

Some generic effects:
- "Nomad bandits" in desert provinces
- "Rural unrest" in regions where the farmers are unhappy and militant and may vent their frustration in revolt
- "Communist underground organization" in industrial provinces where generic communists are stoking the fires of proletarian discontent
- "Guerilla movement" in regions with strong separatism or nationalism.
- "Partisan activity" in recently conquered provinces where you haven't established the rule of the law yet.
If any of these revolt, they can only trigger revolts from similarly afflicted provinces.

In contrast to the generic effects, some unique effects could be added through events or interaction with the political system, i.e.

- "Political rebel" would be a politically motivated guerilla movement aimed at overthrowing the government; it would have an associated ideology and would be created through onAction() commands when you for example ban a party, or choose an event action that has a coup succeeding (but the deposed leaders go into hiding), or when you have low plurality and the party that loses the election chooses to start a guerilla movement to get back into power. Latin American nations should have this a lot. They are different from the generic province rebels because they can trigger different revolts depending on their ideology.

- "Provincial militia" would be something that you can directly fund in your provinces. If you fear that the liberals might overthrow your government, and you want to be able to launch a counter-revolution right away, you would build up a conservative militia. If the liberals take power through certain means (coup, invasion, election victory when plurality is low) then these militias would immediately rise against the government and could coup them back to a conservative regime. However if plurality is high enough, they will not revolt unless the province is already really really militant. The fun thing is, they could also be raised as militia divisions in case of a war. So you might build them with one purpose in mind (securing the socialist revolution / securing the righteous regime) and actually fund them useful in a totally different purpose. Or conversely, you may fund them to build some defence against Los Yanquis or European imperialists, but if you happen to get political upheaval they would add even more oil into the fire.

- "Exiles" would pop up in a province where you get immigration from POPs which left their home country due to militancy and / or political oppression. They could become a nuisance in your country, too, but you could also interact with them and use them to your purposes. Like, fund them and eventually get them to raise a revolt in their home country. Think Fenians in the US, Polish nationalists in Austria / Prussia / Russia, Lenin in Germany, Manuel Zelaya in Venezuela or others.
 

Snall

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And frankly I've always been sad I couldn't just have my secret police round up dissidents for the wall while my aristos feast on turkeydunken...
 
Last edited:

Emperor Walter

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IMO, revlots should be handled so that they are coordinated, instead of the citizens randomly revolting. I agree with the above suggestions. Since we know a rebels with a cause system will be in, it would be nice if we could see rebels with different aims fighting each other. This would be an easy way to represent some multi-sided civil wars. A Civil War system similar to the one in Rome should also be included.
 

Orinsul

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id rather see rebels fighting each other than the rome model which doesnt sit well with most of the time period, the civil wars were all very fractured, only russia was like that. But for the likes of the austrian civil war, for communist, reactionary, fascist and liberal rebels to all start popping up at once and kicking each other to pieces and devastating the province would be brilliant.
but maybe provincal modifiers would work best.
 

Foelsgaard

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id rather see rebels fighting each other than the rome model which doesnt sit well with most of the time period, the civil wars were all very fractured, only russia was like that. But for the likes of the austrian civil war, for communist, reactionary, fascist and liberal rebels to all start popping up at once and kicking each other to pieces and devastating the province would be brilliant.
but maybe provincal modifiers would work best.

When I think American Civil War I think Grey against Blue and when I think Russian Civil War I think Red against White. I wish the revolt system would capture that feel.

Besides, I think it would be trivial to recycle the EU:IN rebel system and divide the rebels up into factions.
 

Lloyien

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When I think American Civil War I think Grey against Blue and when I think Russian Civil War I think Red against White. I wish the revolt system would capture that feel.

Besides, I think it would be trivial to recycle the EU:IN rebel system and divide the rebels up into factions.

The American Civil War isn't representative of civil wars at all. It really shouldn't be called that, because it was a war between two fully functioning governments.
 

unmerged(106433)

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As were a lot of civil wars with both sides claiming to be the legitimate government. Other wars were secessionist or local rebellions (such as Cuba, the Cubans claimed to be for Cuba, not the legitimate government of Spain). Much of the instability in China at the time was from periodic civil wars with factions trying to take over the government.

Other times various Liberal and Nationalist rebels cooperated (such as 1848 in Austria) and at other times fought each other (various anti-Turkish rebels in the Balkans).

I think a civil war aspect would perfectly describe much of what went on and could be reasonably stabilized in gameplay.
 

Foelsgaard

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The American Civil War isn't representative of civil wars at all. It really shouldn't be called that, because it was a war between two fully functioning governments.

Well... To have an organized resistance you need some sort of government no? Anyway, the point of my suggestion is to make high militancy a huge problem without making it an annoying clickfest. Having moderate to high militancy would result in strikes and civil disobediance (lower productivity), and going over the limit would result in revolution.

In Vicky1 you're never going to see huge civil wars because rebels spawn one at a time. They become a military sink and can make wars much more difficult but they never become a threat themselves. Which is sad, I think.
 

Snall

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Well, they become a threat to the AI sometimes. Also it would be good way for the AI to turn things around with new governments.
 

Foelsgaard

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Well, they become a threat to the AI sometimes. Also it would be good way for the AI to turn things around with new governments.

AI is AI. :p