Migration - Hard coded?

[unmerged(64314)]

I have a massive amount of unemployed pops in Asia who refuse to move anywhere outside of a few specific states. Bengali migrants will swamp neighboring states and Oman/South Africa, but the 80 unemployed farmer/labourer pops refuse to touch the high life rating and vacant provinces in California etc. There have been frequent mentions of an "LR" factor that I have come to understand makes Chinese pops more prone to long migrations. Can I add this to other cultures? Or is there anything else I can do to make the Bengalis move?

 

[unmerged(77251)]

True. Cultures in vicky are divided in SR (short range culture) and LR (long range culture). SR cultures wont move further than a few provinces away, while LR cultures can travel all around the world.

Have a look at this link of vickywiki for a complete listing of SR/LR culture.

The only way to get bengalis working in South Africa or somewhere else outside Europe is writing your own "bengali" culture in file /config/world_names.cfg using one of the free culture_extra_XX tag, where XX < 20 (not sure about values above 20) for LR cultures. Then you write your own event, converting every old SR bengali pop into your newly created LR bengali culture, load the game, force your event (F12, event XXXXX) and watch them move...

When it comes to indians, I would support the "hack" since the greatest part of workers in British South African were "imported" indians, becaue they were known to work harder than african native. Mohandas K. Gandhi started his lawyer carrier among the nearly slaved indian working force in british Africa...

 

[OHgamer]

Becasue of the unique nature of South Asian migration patterns in this period, where with a couple minor exceptions created by treaties, almost all South Asian migration remained within the British Empire and almost all of it from South Asia to other tropical colonies (the Caribbean, Fiji, Mauritius, Natal).

Thus the developers apparently decided to have all South Asian POPs be short range, otherwise you'd have South Asian POPs behaving like the Chinese POPs and migrating en masse to the Americas, which would be even more ahistorically problematic.

What would be nice for a Victoria 2 would be to have a "medium-range" migration option that would allow POPs to migrate from one colonial area to another. This would capture the South Asian migration patterns perfectly, and would also allow for replication of other similar patterns with for example the French empire in Africa, where groups such as the Mossi migrated to the plantations of the Ivory Coast, for example.

But for now, the migration is hard coded either short range or long range, so it makes it impossible to model South Asian migration except via event (something I'm working on further for VIP:R 0.2).

 

[OHgamer]

When it comes to indians, I would support the "hack" since the greatest part of workers in British South African were "imported" indians, becaue they were known to work harder than african native. Mohandas K. Gandhi started his lawyer carrier among the nearly slaved indian working force in british Africa...

As I note though, the risk of making South Asian POPs long range is that they don't just migrate to other areas within an empire, but also to the Ameircas, and you end up with millions of South Asians in the USA, Brazil, Argentina etc which is all shades of incorrect history-wise. South Asian migration outside the British empire, with the exception of contract workers arranged between the Raj and the French in New Caledonia and Reunion and the Dutch in Surinam, was pretty much all within the British Empire, and almost all to other colonies, with a very, very small South Asian community in London before 1940.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

As I note though, the risk of making South Asian POPs long range is that they don't just migrate to other areas within an empire, but also to the Ameircas, and you end up with millions of South Asians in the USA, Brazil, Argentina etc which is all shades of incorrect history-wise. South Asian migration outside the British empire, with the exception of contract workers arranged between the Raj and the French in New Caledonia and Reunion and the Dutch in Surinam, was pretty much all within the British Empire, and almost all to other colonies, with a very, very small South Asian community in London before 1940.

Of course you're right. This is not a "hack" i would support in the VIP forum, but intended to solve that precise problem. Besides this, I appreciate your replies; it's always nice to get a look into the VIP forge...

 

[unmerged(64314)]

Alright, thanks for the responses guys. I have set about creating the new culture, but the structure of the extra tags is putting a damper on my efforts. What do I need to put in the event command to signify the new culture?

This is what I currently have in the CSV:

CULTURE_BENGALI;bold;Bengali;Bengali;Bengalí;Bengali;;;;;;x

_CULTURE_EXTRA_1_;Bengali;Paramétrable;Benutzerdefiniert;Def por usuario;Definito dall'utente;;;;Benutzerdefiniert;;x



And for the event command:

command = {type = convert_pop_type which = bengali value = extra_1_}

I'm almost positive the "extra_1_" is incorrect, so any help is appreciated.

 

[likk9922]

Wait up- so if I bankrupt a bunch of Filipino pops in the Philipenes as the US, they won't move to the mainland?

 

[OHgamer]

Wait up- so if I bankrupt a bunch of Filipino pops in the Philipenes as the US, they won't move to the mainland?

AFAIK no, since Filipino are not long range culture

 

[OHgamer]

Alright, thanks for the responses guys. I have set about creating the new culture, but the structure of the extra tags is putting a damper on my efforts. What do I need to put in the event command to signify the new culture?

This is what I currently have in the CSV:

CULTURE_BENGALI;bold;Bengali;Bengali;Bengalí;Bengali;;;;;;x

_CULTURE_EXTRA_1_;Bengali;Paramétrable;Benutzerdefiniert;Def por usuario;Definito dall'utente;;;;Benutzerdefiniert;;x



And for the event command:

command = {type = convert_pop_type which = bengali value = extra_1_}

I'm almost positive the "extra_1_" is incorrect, so any help is appreciated.

Youre close, it should be IIRC

command = {type = convert_pop_type which = bengali value = culture_extra_1 }

(I don't believe it is culture_extra_01 but as far as working with the new cultures I've only been working with african/asian/native american short range ones for the most part and they start at #25.

 

[likk9922]

AFAIK no, since Filipino are not long range culture

Damn, I wasted a lot of money converting those POPs.

 

[unmerged(84535)]

I would have thought all Indians would be Long range cultures considering Indians ended up in every corner of the British empire ( they make up nearly half of Fiji's population today ).

 

[Ericus1]

A bit on this topic, I have to say I have NEVER seen any Chinese immigrants. In my games as the US, Brazil, USCA, I have never seen any (or at least so few I never saw them, and I check frequently to manage immigration) immigrants of any of the cultures that inhabit China.

I tried giving China every commerce and industrial tech to boost their base needs to try and force shortages and thus migrations, but it had no effect. I even loaded up as China, and found that the AI was taxing the low class 100% (they had put in a state capitalist party that was forcing the AI to spend thousands on reforms, and even with max taxes and tarrifs should have been losing money yet had over 100K in the bank), and that they were getting basically 0% of their basic needs (and those were national culture pops), and yet the population in China was continuing to massively grow. When I loaded as China, I was seeing several pops emigrating to the US, but when I loaded the game at the same point as the US, they were not recieving any immigrants from China during the same period.

Obviously, the AI is getting some kind of massive economic cheats, and either I do not understand something about immigration or there is something screwy going on. RIP 1.4

 

[_Curieus_]

A bit on this topic, I have to say I have NEVER seen any Chinese immigrants. In my games as the US, Brazil, USCA, I have never seen any (or at least so few I never saw them, and I check frequently to manage immigration) immigrants of any of the cultures that inhabit China.

I tried giving China every commerce and industrial tech to boost their base needs to try and force shortages and thus migrations, but it had no effect. I even loaded up as China, and found that the AI was taxing the low class 100% (they had put in a state capitalist party that was forcing the AI to spend thousands on reforms, and even with max taxes and tarrifs should have been losing money yet had over 100K in the bank), and that they were getting basically 0% of their basic needs (and those were national culture pops), and yet the population in China was continuing to massively grow. When I loaded as China, I was seeing several pops emigrating to the US, but when I loaded the game at the same point as the US, they were not recieving any immigrants from China during the same period.

Obviously, the AI is getting some kind of massive economic cheats, and either I do not understand something about immigration or there is something screwy going on. RIP 1.4

Chances are that they converted to "yankee" immigrants by merging with a larger stack.
If you really want to see "chinese" emigrant, convert all farmer/labourer pops in a province to something else and the chinese won't merge.
Though why you'd want that is a mistery to me, as those pops will not be as profitable as the Yankee pops

 

[OHgamer]

I would have thought all Indians would be Long range cultures considering Indians ended up in every corner of the British empire ( they make up nearly half of Fiji's population today ).

It's because long-range pops are as likely to migrate outside an empire as within (see my post above). The result if South Asian pops were long range would more likely be they migrate to the USA or Latin America, not stay within the British Empire, because condition that can encourage migration within colonies also encourages migration outside the borders of the empire.

 

[Ericus1]

Chances are that they converted to "yankee" immigrants by merging with a larger stack.
If you really want to see "chinese" emigrant, convert all farmer/labourer pops in a province to something else and the chinese won't merge.
Though why you'd want that is a mistery to me, as those pops will not be as profitable as the Yankee pops

Apparently you've misunderstood me. I know pops assimilate. I have never seen a SINGLE size 100 Chinese pop come in at all. I pay attention to the tiny immigrant pops that come into my provinces becuase I like to see what countries immigration is coming from, and I frequently see Germans, Czechs, French, etc. before they assimilate, but never Chinese.

I don't think Chinese pops are emmigrating at all when China is controlled by the AI.

 

[OHgamer]

Apparently you've misunderstood me. I know pops assimilate. I have never seen a SINGLE size 100 Chinese pop come in at all. I pay attention to the tiny immigrant pops that come into my provinces becuase I like to see what countries immigration is coming from, and I frequently see Germans, Czechs, French, etc. before they assimilate, but never Chinese.

I don't think Chinese pops are emmigrating at all when China is controlled by the AI.

It all depends. Are the push factors in China to encourage the Chinese to leave? If for example China doesn't have the Taiping erupt for whatever reason, one of the main reasons an AI China would have conditions for Chinese to emigrate out may not hold.

Also with the changes in the nature of how POP demands are calculated based on the number of techs in commerce and industry researched, another push factor for the Chinese has been reduced as of Revolutions so that there is less economic incentive to migrate from China in the first half or so of the game due to low research speeds, low starting tech levels, and thus low demand needing to be filled from POP daily income, in Revolutions than in earlier versions of Victoria. As the game progresses though, those economic factors usually do come into effect, not just for China but other areas of the world as well. As a result, usually the emigration in the first half of the game tends to be political, while in the second half of the game it is more economic, though also political from those nations whose AIs do not undergo reforms.

Again it's all dependent on the interplay of push and pull factors and every game will have a different balance of these factors. Chinese POPs do migrate, I know I've seen them migrate in both base Revolutions and VIP:R.