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Foxbyte

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Topic. Normally I build a few factories in every state with a few centers of population having the most numerous and upgraded facilities. Aside from Capitalists, would there be an advantage to putting *all* your factories in one state, then upgrading POPs in other states and hoping they migrate into your newly formed mega-city?

Unrelated; is there a point to leaving one POP in every RGO? I'd rather have another craftsman POP than a fisherman.
 

Foxbyte

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It makes a lot of sense, especially if the provinces in the state you choose have high population growth rates.

What if your country is pretty huge? Say in the range of 30+ states? Would national POPs actually migrate that far?

I know before the hotfixes I never saw them migrate once. So far I'm noticing a bit, but some [Clerks especially] are really stubborn.
 

Faulty

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Isn't there the chance the pops will go to another country? And won't the process take a long time regardless?
 

Foxbyte

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Isn't there the chance the pops will go to another country? And won't the process take a long time regardless?

I read on the wiki somewhere that, for the most part, they'll only leave if they're *really* angry or there's absolutely nowhere to work anywhere in your country.

If you expand the RGOs and Factories of the one state you wanted to have your Super-City in, theoretically they should all migrate there.

I checked the UK in my game, in London there's over 36 million citizens right now. So they're doing pretty good at my idea.

Once in Mexico I had over 80 million in a single state. Huge gold rush, faster than I could expand the RGOs so I built factories... That just made more than labourers start to swarm in.
 
May 29, 2007
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Emigration of pops your national culture only starts if MIL (militancy) > 5. Minority pops start emigrating at MIL > 3. Though this is only true if you have a right wing government, either conservative or reactionary (or fascist). Yes, as soon as the liberals (or anarcho-liberals or socialists) are empowered, the drain stops. This is why you basically never get any immigration from liberal UK in most games.

What you're referring to is usually called 'internal migration', and can serve the purpose of concentrating your pops into one mega-industrialized state. I wrote a short howto explaining how to proceed. As you mentionned it, a good reason behind this is the capitalist mechanism, eg it works better to promote a few big capis pops in one state than scattering thousands accross an empire, since their income is proportional to their size.

One possible exploit is to migrate many pops to a state rich in province with high life-ratings, like New York in the US and London in GB. High LR means increased pop growth, so that, while playing the UK, you can easily hit the 200M hab mark on mainland GB, without even using immigration, just by force-moving everyone to greater London early in game...

EDIT: about your second question: yes, you will need RGOs to feed you industry, plus garanteeing a local production of most basic goods needed by pops, and thus lowering the overall price pops will pay. For an instance, if you stop producing grain, you will certainly notice a decrease in incom taxes, since everyone has know to buy it form the WM - though the price difference is so small you don't even notice it in a big industrialized state.
 
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unmerged(94521)

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Yes, it is definetly better to have one big state because of:

1) Better growth rates
2) You can promote the necessary 300.000 capitalists to give a sizable bonus to effiency
3) You can have upgraded factories that also contributes to effeciency
4) You save money upgrading railroads

But there are some complications:

- It takes time for you to move all the POPs.
- Unemployed POPs aren't making any money for you.
 
May 29, 2007
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- Unemployed POPs aren't making any money for you.

You mean in factories ? Because you can STILL tax them, even if unemployed. In my last game as Texas, I promoted a few clerks in early game to boost my RP, although I had no factory. Well, it turned out that my tax income tripled this way...
 

Raph

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You mean in factories ? Because you can STILL tax them, even if unemployed. In my last game as Texas, I promoted a few clerks in early game to boost my RP, although I had no factory. Well, it turned out that my tax income tripled this way...

IIRC, all POPs get a share of your export income minus taxes, according to class. Having lots of unemployed POPs however mean less production which equals less income to all of your POPs. I don't think they like being unemployed either, meaning maybe higher CON, and usually going socialist? Might not be a problem if you're already socialist on the other hand.
 

Foxbyte

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about your second question: yes, you will need RGOs to feed you industry, plus garanteeing a local production of most basic goods needed by pops, and thus lowering the overall price pops will pay. For an instance, if you stop producing grain, you will certainly notice a decrease in incom taxes, since everyone has know to buy it form the WM - though the price difference is so small you don't even notice it in a big industrialized state.

Well that shouldn't be a problem; my National pops can work the factories in Mega-Rome while my occupied territories produce the raw resources. Isn't that how Victoria works? ^-^

EDIT:

Raph: I think they get a certain base income, but if they're employed they get more money both directly and indirectly due to heightened exports? Dunno exactly how it works, I just know More Working = Gooder Taxes. Pretty sure they go Socialist when out of work, though in my current game a lot of my unemployed tinypops are going Fascist. To the point that they have 20% of the vote.
 

Foxbyte

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Update to my test. So far the super-city is working. Although starting as Persia doesn't really make it a lenient method of testing. It should have been obvious to me, but Craftsmen are the preferred POP of migration; Clerks need to be starved too much and often that means taxing them to the point they begin to downgrade [That's 55%, yeah?].

The more provinces a state has the better, since the migrating craftsman POPs are going to start merging. If you want to get sneaky you can upgrade these POPs directly into Clerks instead of using laborers and farmers to do it.
 

lizardo

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They just won't move.

It could be the short range status also works internally, but not according to anything I've read.

An unemployed Craftsman located three provinces away from a factory state in Chili or Oman will not move. Tax, starve or not, it sits, thumbs in its ass sucking in money.

I can accept the weirdness of R/vicky immigration and emigration but internal migration should really work with some reliability.
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I've always felt that slaves should be readily movable, by command. And in non USA cultures they can be more than unskilled labor.

So should surfs. Especially under communism though this should have huge increases in militancy.
 
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