migration and pops default rights in 2.2

[amirkhafan]

in 2.2 xenophobe empires have a bug with mgration pacts pops turn to slave after they migrate to xenophobe empire the default right for all races are slave so they should not migrate but they do

and if it not a bug they should not have access to migration pact at all


for example i am a xenophobe goblin empire in the pictures and have migration pacts with elves and gnome and and they are becoming slaves after they migrate to my planet and the default right of all the species are slave

just wanted to show you

dev team should now about this


somebody should check this i posted this several times no body responded

 

[Urza1234]

Try capitalization and punctuation. If people aren't taking time to respond to you, maybe its because you type like a prole.

A. Dont sign migration pacts if you dont want people to migrate to your empire.
B. If you dont want new types of species in your empire to be slaves change your default species rights. Problem solved.

This isnt a bug, or even a design oversight, this is you getting mad at your own settings, even though you clearly know what and where those settings are.

 

[thipp]

Eh I think it could be considered a design oversight, in the sense that "my species is enslaved in this empire" should cause a massive decrease in migration attraction for any pop of that species.

I'm not even sure if migration currently cares about a pop's species at all; might just pull randomly. Which would be a byproduct of the rushed implementation and would definitely be changed at some point.

 

[Urza1234]

Eh I think it could be considered a design oversight, in the sense that "my species is enslaved in this empire" should cause a massive decrease in migration attraction for any pop of that species.

I'm not even sure if migration currently cares about a pop's species at all; might just pull randomly. Which would be a byproduct of the rushed implementation and would definitely be changed at some point.

It does care a lot about pop species, and it also does factor in slavery.

Migration was rolled into the growth system, which accounts for both those things. However, the values associated with those stats actually encourage the migration of xenos to enslaving xenophobe empires, especially if he didnt already have slaves in his empire, which it looks like he didnt. Thats part of why migration pacts are so hard to form for Xenophobe empires. Maybe the mod he's obviously using creates problems with that

Migration is handled through a migration pool calculated among planets valid for that pool. Emigrating pop value gets added to the pool based on the conditions on the planet/empire the pop is emigrating from. Immigrating pop value is taken from that pool based on the conditions on the planet/empire the pop is emigrating to.
I dont think there is currently any way within that system to get a pop to devalue migration based on the fact that it might go from being free to being enslaved, since those two calculations are handled separately.

Again, thats part of why its so hard for slaving Xenophobes to form migration pacts. I'm pretty sure the mod he's obviously using broke something that he didnt like being broken. This cant even be filed as a bug report because of the probable mod issue.

 

[amirkhafan]

Try capitalization and punctuation. If people aren't taking time to respond to you, maybe its because you type like a prole.

A. Dont sign migration pacts if you dont want people to migrate to your empire.
B. If you dont want new types of species in your empire to be slaves change your default species rights. Problem solved.

This isnt a bug, or even a design oversight, this is you getting mad at your own settings, even though you clearly know what and where those settings are.

im not using any kind of mod
and i dont have migration pacts with xenophobe empires but AI empire that i have pacts with them do and my pops migrate to those empires by proxy and become slaves

 

[Wolfgang I]

The only xenophobe slavers I have played since the update had the inward perfection and fanatic Despoilers civic which means I have not experinced the same behavior.

I agree that it is a bit odd that free pops migrate to slaver empires from a RP point of view but migration mechanics are in a weird place right now. Just look at how sedentary and nomadic work now.

In one if my games my slaves were happier than worker pops in most AI empires though as I stacked all possible happines bonuses in my empire and quite a few of them work for non-citzens too.
I think my uplifted psionic slaves were happier than most non-ruler pops in the galaxy. My overseers on thrall worlds were happier than FE pops...

You can even allow internal migration now at least for some slavery types.
If you want to use the pop growth boost from migration maybe setting the default slavery type to livestock would work? Displacement purge might be an option too.

 

[amirkhafan]

The only xenophobe slavers I have played since the update had the inward perfection and fanatic Despoilers civic which means I have not experinced the same behavior.

I agree that it is a bit odd that free pops migrate to slaver empires from a RP point of view but migration mechanics are in a weird place right now. Just look at how sedentary and nomadic work now.

In one if my games my slaves were happier than worker pops in most AI empires though as I stacked all possible happines bonuses in my empire and quite a few of them work for non-citzens too.
I think my uplifted psionic slaves were happier than most non-ruler pops in the galaxy. My overseers on thrall worlds were happier than FE pops...

You can even allow internal migration now at least for some slavery types.
If you want to use the pop growth boost from migration maybe setting the default slavery type to livestock would work? Displacement purge might be an option too.

most of the time i play as xenophiles i just dont want my pop end up as slaves

i dont have migration pacts with xenophobe empires but AI empire that i have pacts with them do and my pops migrate to those empires by proxy and become slaves

 

[Urza1234]

for example i am a xenophobe goblin empire in the pictures and have migration pacts with elves and gnome and and they are becoming slaves after they migrate to my planet and the default right of all the species are slave

im not using any kind of mod
and i dont have migration pacts with xenophope empires but AI do and my pops migrate to those empires by proxy

Which of these two contradictory pieces of information is true?

 

[amirkhafan]

Which of these two contradictory pieces of information is true?

both
the first one was just an "example" to show people this thing happen in the game because people like you just consider that im wrong about this
and just consider this that you dont know every think about the game
you are not helpful here man just stop wasting my time

 

[Wolfgang I]

most of the time i play as xenophiles i just dont want my pop end up as slaves

i dont have migration pacts with xenophobe empires but AI empire that i have pacts with them do and my pops migrate to those empires by proxy and become slaves

I think not signing migration treaties is the only way to prevent that.

 

[amirkhafan]

I think not signing migration treaties is the only way to prevent that.

yeah for now until dev fix this

 

[Urza1234]

both
the first one was just an "example" to show people this thing happen in the game because people like you just consider that im wrong about this
and just consider this that you dont know every think about the game
you are not helpful here man just stop wasting my time

Lol, I mean first you say you're a Xenophobe empire thats enslaving people you dont want to, then you say that you're a Xenophile and you dont want people enslaving your crap.

Look, you're not wrong that the result of the 2.2 game systems can be for free pops to migrate to Xenophobe slavers. Thats completely accurate. However, Xenophobe slavers face such huge penalties to the acceptance of Migration treaties that its very rarely a problem.

Changing the entire new migration system to fix this one fringe issue, which is only subjectively even a problem, would be ridiculous.
The devs already implemented rules to deal with this fringe issue, ie the difficulty of Xenophobe migration pacts. If there is a bug anywhere, it might possibly be in AI-AI diplomacy circumventing that rule.
Pretty much the only other thing the devs could do to prevent this would be for a player to set an anti-slaver xeno migration rule in the species rights section, and that would only work for their main species. But again, thats not really a bug. Thats just extra coding work to suit the preferences of an individual in a fringe-case scenario.

If you want to approach this as your personal issue with the design of a game, thats one thing and more power to you. If you want to actually report a bug, use the bug report forum.

 

[Urza1234]

Here's a useful trouble-shooting type question. Does your galaxy have any 'Machine Intelligence', 'Evangelizing Zealots', or 'Ruthless Capitalists'?

 

[amirkhafan]

yes it does have ruthless capitalists
one or two

 

[amirkhafan]

Here's a useful trouble-shooting type question. Does your galaxy have any 'Machine Intelligence', 'Evangelizing Zealots', or 'Ruthless Capitalists'?

yes

 

[Wolfgang I]

I think the mutal rivalery modifer is the main cause of odd AI empire friendships and treaties.

Stacking rivalery I was able to befriend all non-genocidical AI empires in a test game I played.
By stacking fanatic xenophile and bribes on top of that I managed to turn all empires that were capable of diplomacy in a huge galaxy into protectorates before 2275. I only conquered the first two empires I discovered. I think I had 17 protectorates by the time i abandoned the game.

 

[Archael90]

I dont think this is a bug or design oversight.
Its like in a book i should not name here, where a yung girl is migrating from Europe to the Arabia bcs of men she met, and fell in love. When she arrived everything changed, and she became kind of a slave. Woman in Arabia dont have such rights as in USA, or Europe, yet they tend to believe they will remain they rights when migrate there. So in Stellaris. Even is the species have slave rights in some empire, the same species in other empire believes they will be treaten the same way as usuall, so they migrate.