Middlesex and London - historical governance of areas of Greater London

[Pellaken]

Here is a map:

The black lines indicate the original counties. The red lines indicate London prior to Greater London being formed. The Green words name the counties and the Blue numbers indicate the population in each sub-section, in millions.


I'm curious how each area developed, and what impact this has had on to the modern day.

If, for example, I went to London and asked about the parts that were once part of Kent, would anyone have any clue what the hell I was talking about?

 

[Gordy]

Well generally people in London never stopped considering those places Kent.

 

[Pellaken]

Well generally people in London never stopped considering those places Kent.

Really? I had thought it was the opposite.

 

[Gordy]

Really? I had thought it was the opposite.

No. If you ask where Bromley or Enfield is then they will say "in Kent" or "in Middlesex" despite those places being part of London for over 40 years.

 

[Dewirix]

Speaking as someone who lives in Haringey, I don't strongly identify the borough with Middlesex, but that's mainly because Middlesex doesn't exist any more. Bromley, on the other hand, is still referred to as being in Kent, or if its incorporation into Greater London is mentioned it'll generally be cast in a negative light.

 

[Pellaken]

What about the areas in the former county of London.

Do people even know Greenwich was once in Kent? Or the Tower Hamlets in Middlesex?

 

[diegosimeone]

No. If you ask where Bromley or Enfield is then they will say "in Kent" or "in Middlesex" despite those places being part of London for over 40 years.

Don't know anyone in Bromley but people I know who lived for a while in Enfield either said they're in London or just in Enfield as if everyone should know where that is (so they have to follow it up with "which is in northern London" or "just north of London"). But neither have lived there all their lives so I guess what you're saying could apply to the people born & raised there.

Didn't they stop using 'Middlesex' though? Isn't Greater London what they're using now instead? Used to live there for a short while and it was 'Middlesex, London' but living in central for so many years in central I've lost any contact with these areas.

 

[Eusebio]

Enfield is generally considered part of London. Maybe old people would see it differently. Dunno about Bromley, probably because it's more suburban than most places north of the river.

 

[Pellaken]

Okay, but what about places like Wadsworth or Westminster?

 

[Dewirix]

Okay, but what about places like Wadsworth or Westminster?

Not sure about Wandsworth, but Westminster is definitely seen as London rather than Middlesex (despite the fact that Middlesex County Council used to meet at the Guildhall on Parliament Square). Of course, Westminster's not been part of Middlesex since 1889, so it's not that surprising.

 

[Pellaken]

Not sure about Wandsworth, but Westminster is definitely seen as London rather than Middlesex (despite the fact that Middlesex County Council used to meet at the Guildhall on Parliament Square). Of course, Westminster's not been part of Middlesex since 1889, so it's not that surprising.

Are these things generally known, or is it just geeks like us who would know things like that.

 

[StephenT]

The postal address of anywhere within the red area is simply 'London' followed by the postcode.

Until 1996, the official postal address of the areas within Greater London but outside the red area included the county name - "Croydon, Surrey", "Bromley, Kent", "Enfield, Middlesex" - plus the postcode. In '96 the Post Office upgraded its systems so that the postcode alone is sufficient, and the county name was officially dropped. A lot of people still use it, however.

 

[Dewirix]

Are these things generally known, or is it just geeks like us who would know things like that.

I just asked three of my colleagues what former county we were sitting in (our office is in Westminster). Middlesex was not one of the many guesses, so I suppose it's limited to those of us interested in such things.

 

[Choccookies]

There are still some references around here to Middlesex, sometimes addresses are given as Middlesex, sometimes London, quite often Herts - I live on the border between Barnet and Enfield. Middlesex university used to have two campuses within a mile of here though so that probably has a significant effect

 

[Pellaken]

So, the consensus is:

Within the former County of London, no, nobody has any clue, but outside if it, yes, everybody knows.

 

[Gordy]

So, the consensus is:

Within the former County of London, no, nobody has any clue, but outside if it, yes, everybody knows.

Few people have heard of the "county of London", it's just London or Greater London. People have heard of Middlesex but associate it with only with fringe areas to the north and west of London; very few people think of London as being within Middlesex other than in cricket.

 

[Pellaken]

Few people have heard of the "county of London", it's just London or Greater London. People have heard of Middlesex but associate it with only with fringe areas to the north and west of London; very few people think of London as being within Middlesex other than in cricket.

Then what is the little London in the middle?

 

[StephenT]

Then what is the little London in the middle?

"The City".

 

[diegosimeone]

"The City".

present

We call it London. Just London.. The rest are wannabe Londoners hehe

 

[Pellaken]

"The City".

...
then what do you call greater london?