Mid game land war slog

[Jays298]

I've been playing as the USA and Germany a few playthroughs.

And it seems like in both cases by 1942-1944 I hit a wall where there are too many units on both sides, not enough supply, and even armor doesn't seem very effective. It becomes a war of attrition like WWI where divisions go over the top, get hammered, other side does the same until one runs out of manpower or equipment.

In my last game I gave a general an army of about 15 tank divisions, about half 40 width 1941 light tanks (III )and a few mixed to full medium tank divisions. (I think that's Chafee and Sherman for the USA).

And the thing is it's taking nearly all the XP I can get to make a 40 width light tank division (with maybe 5 to 8 motorized per division). So by the time mediums come around, I don't have the XP to make a 40w medium unless I'm already fighting.

I never bother with Africa because the attrition is too high. Even Western Europe (France) has attrition on both sides due to lack of supply. Which doesn't make sense for either side.

My inf divisions were 7/2. I changed to 14/4 late in game, with armored recon.

But maybe armored recon and light tanks are useless after 1942?

With the US I have superior firepower and air / naval superiority. 1 tank army and 9 infantry armies.

But all useless when I get the yellow ! "Can't move to next province because it would cause the next province to have not enough supply." Or just mass attrition.

Maybe it's a less is more thing.

But I would typically have 24x9 divisions of infantry on a big front and one army of as many tank divisions as I could sustain.

And since the tanks aren't getting through then the infantry has to attack...

 

[ClavintheGreat]

Some of my personal tips:

I wouldn't recommend using light tanks for anything other than armored recon and SPArtillery.

By 1942 you'll want 40w medium tanks divisions to push. Put engineers, mechanics, signal companies, on tank divisions, always (you can add other things, but be sure to keep org above 30).

Don't use 7/2s. use pure 20w infantry with engineer and artillery support. 14/4s are good.

If you have supply problems then use logistics support and generals with good logistics skills. If you want to win in Africa, prioritize a few good divisions over a lot of bad divisions that eat supply.

 

[Iskulya]

In my last game I gave a general an army of about 15 tank divisions, about half 40 width 1941 light tanks (III )and a few mixed to full medium tank divisions. (I think that's Chafee and Sherman for the USA).

There's your problem right there. Light tanks are exploitation divisions. They're meant to push after you have already broken through the enemy's front line and to help exploit the breakthrough and push against infantry divisions that are low on organization with little to no entrenchment.

You're trying to use light tank divisions as breakthrough divisions, and no wonder it isn't working. Medium or heavy tanks would suit your purposes more, especially the latter. Even if you're using 40w medium tanks you'll want quite a few of those divisions(I always use at least 4 self-propelled artillery brigades in my 40w tank divisions) and make use of the planning bonus to get through an entrenched line. Heavy tanks are really more suited to this kind of fighting. With heavy tanks even if they're unable to breakthrough they can inflict significant casualties and strength losses to the point where repeated attacks with them will eventually make it through. The AI just doesn't make anything that can really tackle a concentrated heavy armor push. You pretty much need armor divisions with tank destroyers to stop a push from multiple well designed 40w heavy tank divisions, that, or some good CAS and air superiority.

Light tanks' usefulness sharply falls off after 1940 but they still have a niche even after that. Exploitation unit. You could convert to self propelled artillery and put them into a division with motorized or mechanized and they'll do well in exploiting any breakthroughs that your heavier units make.

The supply issue is a serious one relating to the AI and I doubt we'll see a fix on that until Paradox overhauls logistics. It's a really frustrating issue that has caused me to quit a campaign more than once.

 

[Jays298]

Will try signal divisions on my tanks, thanks. And mechanics too. I wasn't using them before, just eng / art / hospital / logistics on everything

There's your problem right there. Light tanks are exploitation divisions. They're meant to push after you have already broken through the enemy's front line and to help exploit the breakthrough and push against infantry divisions that are low on organization with little to no entrenchment.

You're trying to use light tank divisions as breakthrough divisions, and no wonder it isn't working. Medium or heavy tanks would suit your purposes more, especially the latter. Even if you're using 40w medium tanks you'll want quite a few of those divisions(I always use at least 4 self-propelled artillery brigades in my 40w tank divisions) and make use of the planning bonus to get through an entrenched line. Heavy tanks are really more suited to this kind of fighting. With heavy tanks even if they're unable to breakthrough they can inflict significant casualties and strength losses to the point where repeated attacks with them will eventually make it through. The AI just doesn't make anything that can really tackle a concentrated heavy armor push. You pretty much need armor divisions with tank destroyers to stop a push from multiple well designed 40w heavy tank divisions, that, or some good CAS and air superiority.

Light tanks' usefulness sharply falls off after 1940 but they still have a niche even after that. Exploitation unit. You could convert to self propelled artillery and put them into a division with motorized or mechanized and they'll do well in exploiting any breakthroughs that your heavier units make.

The supply issue is a serious one relating to the AI and I doubt we'll see a fix on that until Paradox overhauls logistics. It's a really frustrating issue that has caused me to quit a campaign more than once.

Thanks. Next time I'm going to try researching heavy tanks and also having Self propelled artillery (though not sure which SPA to build).

It's very challenging production wise.

I have been using logistics companies in every division (as well as artillery, engineer, field hospital). But as you said the AI makes the supply issues worse.

 

[squid_hills]

Only put hospitals on INF or CAV. Tanks don't need them, generally. They eat up a support slot that could be better used for something else. 40w may be the multiplayer meta, but it isn't needed to beat the AI. Smaller 20w divisions eat less supply and can hold ground pretty well (especially when the enemy is low on supply and you aren't). 40w medium tanks are good breakthrough units. 40w lights are too many tanks in one place. Light tanks get rendered mostly obsolete in Europe really fast (they are useful in China a lot longer, tho). I wouldn't waste XP building a 40w for lights: just do 20w and use them to quickly eat North Africa.

Increase the level of all ports you control. Both in Europe and in the US. A level 10 port in France does you no good if all your supply is moving through level 3 ports in the US. Try not to land in an allied country when you D-Day. You will be stuck waiting for the AI to build ports and infrastructure. You don't want to rely on the AI for supply, so land in Germany or Italy. That way, any tile you take over becomes US territory and you can build on it.

Use supply companies in everything. Everything. As you level them up through research, they give a better and better bonus. If you control the skies, you can supply by air with transports, but this is a stopgap measure only, as you will never be able to supply an entire front line from the air. But it can help cut down on attrition.

Control the skies. Dominance of the air won't magically make your dudes on the ground have more supply, but it will give the enemy an attack/defense penalty that makes beating them easier, even if both sides are suffering low supply.

If army XP is a problem, send an attache to China as soon as Japan starts aggro in 1937. You may have to boost their opinion of you first, but that won't take long. The attache will give you 20% of China's earned army XP. At the rate they slam bodies into the Japanese, that adds up fast.

There is a Field Marshal skill that helps with supply use. Try to get it on your field marshals so they can pass the savings onto all the attached generals in their army group.

Don't keep your tanks on the front line, unless they are pushing the enemy. If you are resting them up to replace losses, strategically redeploy them a good distance away from the front. They will get resupplied faster and put less strain on the front line.

I used to struggle a lot with supply when I started playing this game, too. Especially in Russia. These tips have helped me out a great deal, and I hope you'll find at least some of them useful.

 

[Jays298]

Only put hospitals on INF or CAV. Tanks don't need them, generally. They eat up a support slot that could be better used for something else. 40w may be the multiplayer meta, but it isn't needed to beat the AI. Smaller 20w divisions eat less supply and can hold ground pretty well (especially when the enemy is low on supply and you aren't). 40w medium tanks are good breakthrough units. 40w lights are too many tanks in one place. Light tanks get rendered mostly obsolete in Europe really fast (they are useful in China a lot longer, tho). I wouldn't waste XP building a 40w for lights: just do 20w and use them to quickly eat North Africa.

Increase the level of all ports you control. Both in Europe and in the US. A level 10 port in France does you no good if all your supply is moving through level 3 ports in the US. Try not to land in an allied country when you D-Day. You will be stuck waiting for the AI to build ports and infrastructure. You don't want to rely on the AI for supply, so land in Germany or Italy. That way, any tile you take over becomes US territory and you can build on it.

Use supply companies in everything. Everything. As you level them up through research, they give a better and better bonus. If you control the skies, you can supply by air with transports, but this is a stopgap measure only, as you will never be able to supply an entire front line from the air. But it can help cut down on attrition.

Control the skies. Dominance of the air won't magically make your dudes on the ground have more supply, but it will give the enemy an attack/defense penalty that makes beating them easier, even if both sides are suffering low supply.

If army XP is a problem, send an attache to China as soon as Japan starts aggro in 1937. You may have to boost their opinion of you first, but that won't take long. The attache will give you 20% of China's earned army XP. At the rate they slam bodies into the Japanese, that adds up fast.

There is a Field Marshal skill that helps with supply use. Try to get it on your field marshals so they can pass the savings onto all the attached generals in their army group.

Don't keep your tanks on the front line, unless they are pushing the enemy. If you are resting them up to replace losses, strategically redeploy them a good distance away from the front. They will get resupplied faster and put less strain on the front line.

I used to struggle a lot with supply when I started playing this game, too. Especially in Russia. These tips have helped me out a great deal, and I hope you'll find at least some of them useful.

Thanks. That is very useful.

Especially the bit about invading Germany directly. That was the most frustrating thing, invading in Normandy but not having enough supply. I'll try the area around Hamburg / Denmark next time, and making sure my ports are 10.

I will try doing the attache thing to China too, but I think just not using 40w divisions will help a lot too as far as XP. I'm not trying to out meta the AI just have some kind of break thru, which I guess means using medium tanks as soon as possible.

 

[DicRoNero]

The AI just doesn't make anything that can really tackle a concentrated heavy armor push. You pretty much need armor divisions with tank destroyers to stop a push from multiple well designed 40w heavy tank divisions, that, or some good CAS and air superiority.

Yeah, that's the AI's great weakness land-wise. I've had a similar slogfest in my current game (totally different nations though) from 1942 to about 1944, up until I eventually built some 7-8 modern armored divisions (27w, 6mot/2SPAA/3SPG/2ARM) - and those just smashed the front and run wild in the rear, and a couple of million troops the AI had at the front could do nothing at that point against this tiny steel fist of mine. Also, 6-10k fighters meant little against 2 battalions of fully upgraded modern SPAA, so the latter [air+CAS] won't stop the push either. The AI needs to be taught to keep armored reserves behind the front, following the evolutions of the human player and getting ready to meet the breakthrough with some backhand blows, but that's too much to ask when we have things like current naval warfare (hint: it's far worse than the land one).

In a nutshell, fast armor = easy win.