Considering how little the game ui tells you when it shows you red stuff, you'd still have to look to determine if in fact you should be looking!
Micro management is astronomical now
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Considering how little the game ui tells you when it shows you red stuff, you'd still have to look to determine if in fact you should be looking!
Also the outliner does not warn about low amenities, so if you care about those you also have to click every single planet. Not to mention the new "increase growth" planetary decision for 1k food, that also requires three clicks per planet if you want to refresh it.
Honestly I am a little surprised that people actually defend the new system with the claim "it isn't much micro", because a lot of micro is exactly what it is. And that is coming from someone who actually likes the new system. There is so much stuff to constantly balance, and that is not trivial. The AI is now effectively unable to play the game anymore even with like +200% bonus production or whatever, yet people still claim it's trivial for players with regular production values. Sure...
And the assumption that it is now only harder if you want to min/max is not what I observed either. If you leave a planet in a suboptimal state, it is constantly polluting the outliner and thus indirectly eats the player's focus as SpectralShade said. Plus, let's take a look at the endgame situation where you want to force-build stuff on a new world and don't really care if it's the most efficient build order / timing because you have ressources to boot.
Old system:
Step 1: wait for immigration or just resettle pops until there are enough for the capital building upgrades (15)
Step 2: upgrade capital building twice
Step 3: build other buildings
Step 4: upgrade everything
Sure it was a rather tedious occupation, but you could max out your planet by visiting it maybe ~10 times. The new system doesn't even really allow that at all. It starts with the population. Let's just assume for the sake of the argument I want to force-resettle 80 pops to unlock all the building slots (80!!! old system was only 15).
Where am I taking them from? Oh I know, since I am not a min-max player, I just take them from two other colonies, and those will fill up again by themselves if I wait long enough, right? Wrong!
If I steal that many pops from somewhere, the pop-source loses all of it's buildings. So, instead of stealing 2*40 pops, I steal 3 here, 4 there, 2 there etc. Okay, so much for reducing micro, but fine.
Also, what happens now? Since I now have a planet with a gigantic population and no jobs at all, the game simulates a nice civil war there. So I have to throw massive amounts of consumer goods at them to keep them happy. Or after building everything, I have to build extra police, fight the crime, unbuild the extra police... Oh boy.
All of that might be realistic, but the point is: With the new system it is not really possible anymore to design a planet on paper and then force-build it in some sort of massive construction effort. The new system is systematically designed around some kind of organic buildup and development of the planets. And even though that is actually fun if you play Stellaris as a city builder game (that's really the only way to play it now, since it doesn't have actual AI empires anymore), that is a lot of micro.
I think many people are blowing up over nothing. The economy is fine. I primarily only bother looking at a planet when it says there's an unemployed pop on it. Then you go to it, figure out what the planet should build next (I've been focusing on making sure I always have enough housing and amenities first before I move onto the more exciting buildings) and build it. You mostly only build one district or building at a time. It's really not complicated or micro intensive.
Should I put together a "Stellaris 2.2 for dummies" thread to help people out?
Should I put together a "Stellaris 2.2 for dummies" thread to help people out?
Sure! But by 2300, I had 35 colonies. About 10% of my colonies were continuously red marked by unemployment issues -- a couple I understood and the occasional new ruler that got displaced by a new pop somehow and a couple more have unassigned pops. So every month, I have to scroll up and down the list, mentally checking whether this world has a known issue with an unemployed ruler or if I should open the colony. If I have to go to the colony then I need to check if a new building slot is open, whether a district is appropriate, or if the unemployed pop is best resettled. Then I can click the 4-10 times necessary to carry out the action and go back to the outliner and scroll through again.
With another wave of colonization on the horizon, the nuisance in only going to get worse.
And then there's the rest of the micro.
Continue the outliner scrolling through the ships because some fleet may have reached their destinations and be waiting for new orders.
Notifications are mostly useless. Things I want to be notified about don't have events and a lot of things I don't care very much about (like diplomatic entreaties that don't include me or auto survey vessels completing a system survey) pollute the notification area. But a few are vital, so every one needs to get checked promptly before they vanish.
Speaking of auto-survey, it has serious issues with sending a scout half way across the galaxy instead of the surveying the unknown system one jump over. So make sure the ships are acting sensibly and reroute when they're not.
I feel like the people who are saying that the micromanagement isn't a problem aren't playing past like 10 planets.
I just do a census every once in a while. It's a lot less clicking and is far more interesting than the old system.
Most of that unemployment is from pops being demoted and I would have positive consumer goods if I downgraded my living standards.
Well, my worlds only look like that if I've neglected them for a few years.
My main issue currently is to increase my mineral and food production as it's been a bit low due to my fast breeding population and increase in alloy production. Using Welfare eats a lot of consumer goods.
My main issue currently is to increase my mineral and food production as it's been a bit low due to my fast breeding population and increase in alloy production. Using Welfare eats a lot of consumer goods.
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At this point in time, I am barely even trying. Maybe I will resettle some of my pops to boost alloy production. Those megastructures are quite expensive.
I LOVE the new changes to the economy. It was daunting at first but I love that it is interesting to play a peaceful empire now. Economy management became interesting.
For those that do not want micro, delegation is always an option, but people are irrationally afraid of it thinking that the AI will screw them over, so they just turn it off then b*tch about micromanagement in the forums...
For those that do not want micro, delegation is always an option, but people are irrationally afraid of it thinking that the AI will screw them over, so they just turn it off then b*tch about micromanagement in the forums...
The micromanagement IS an issue and the Sector AI is broken. People are right to complain. The UI is a mess itself, the mechanics behind pop growth, market etc are wonky at best, etc. Yes, you can play the game without going insane micromanaging everything, and some people absolutely overblow the amount of micro needed, but there ARE serious problems. 2.2 is awesome, but needs to be smoothed out because in the current state it's not efficient.
It feels like the only sane approach to min/maxing is a purge based economy.
Double down on alloys early on and resettle all xenos to one purge planet to get the most out of forced labor.
Double down on alloys early on and resettle all xenos to one purge planet to get the most out of forced labor.
Well I have mixed opinion about this issue. At first managing it all is pretty fun, but somewhere in the mid game all that collapses, and economy turns into constantly resettling excess drone population to newly conquered planets, occasionally building as much stuff as possible to create more space. I can imagine its even worse as normal empire, when you do not always have access to resettling and you cannot really stop pop growth for good to keep your core planets in state of carefully designed balance. Although the micro is managable if you play as a gestalt consciousness, even if annoying.
you do realize that delegation to the sector AI worked alot better pre le guin, right? Lay down the groundwork of saying which level 1 buildings should be built on all tiles, then hand off the planet to AI with orders not to redevelop. Viola. AI handles upgrades and all the tedious micro.. Or rather that was how it was. Now we are forced to handle that tedious stuff we could let the AI deal with previously.
Yeah, and a lot of players used one megasector for all the planets. I never did this, for me personally it is a way to gamey solution to reduce micro.
Yeah, now sectors are screwed. They used to be useful, now they are useless and just add one more layer of micromanaging if you even bother with them.
I enjoyed my first few Pop resettles, but it gets kind of old when you have 500+ pops.
Much of the Pop-Juggling could be avoided if unemployed/unhoused/unhappy Pops generated a emigration push so hard that the growth would actually feed other planets (that are actually understaffed/happy etc) instead of piling up in the crowded planets. If there is actually somewhere to migrate to, that is (check if there is a pull, if there is, push like mad).
Of course, this would eliminate the seditary/nomadic machanic. To counter this, the "automatic resettle via emigration push" should actually cost you energy (you probably have to pay/subsidise your migrating pops a bit - if nothing else, the millions of people in transit (which would take months and years) wouldnt pay taxes and whatnot). Seditary would give you a higher penalty, nomadic a lower.
This might make Egalitarian a bit OP, but they currently suffer because they cant micro by shipping people around. Of course, they still cant "boost up" a newfound colony by forcing 9 emigrants to it an upgrading it (for great growth), but this is the price they have to pay for being the good guys I guess...
Easy solution, waay less micro. Basically every mechanic is there (except the detect pull, execute megapush. And the energy loss for emigration. But that is even optional). It would even help the retarded AI to optimise their planets, because they kind of auto optimize this way if the AI can keep from swapping the purpose of its planets around all the time.
Much of the Pop-Juggling could be avoided if unemployed/unhoused/unhappy Pops generated a emigration push so hard that the growth would actually feed other planets (that are actually understaffed/happy etc) instead of piling up in the crowded planets. If there is actually somewhere to migrate to, that is (check if there is a pull, if there is, push like mad).
Of course, this would eliminate the seditary/nomadic machanic. To counter this, the "automatic resettle via emigration push" should actually cost you energy (you probably have to pay/subsidise your migrating pops a bit - if nothing else, the millions of people in transit (which would take months and years) wouldnt pay taxes and whatnot). Seditary would give you a higher penalty, nomadic a lower.
This might make Egalitarian a bit OP, but they currently suffer because they cant micro by shipping people around. Of course, they still cant "boost up" a newfound colony by forcing 9 emigrants to it an upgrading it (for great growth), but this is the price they have to pay for being the good guys I guess...
Easy solution, waay less micro. Basically every mechanic is there (except the detect pull, execute megapush. And the energy loss for emigration. But that is even optional). It would even help the retarded AI to optimise their planets, because they kind of auto optimize this way if the AI can keep from swapping the purpose of its planets around all the time.
Considering how little the game ui tells you when it shows you red stuff, you'd still have to look to determine if in fact you should be looking!
Depends. When an unemployment indicator flips on, it's only for one pop at that moment.
The trick is remembering how long that light's been on. I found myself with a dozen unemployed robots yesterday on a planet where I'd been ignoring the unemployment light while waiting for a blocking clearance tech. Not a problem, but a silly waste of minerals at a time when I wasn't routinely selling them off anyway.
I liked the old sectors. I hated that they were penalizing you for having too many planets but I liked being able to group colonies together virtually at will. Made managing them a lot easier. I wish they would flesh sectors out further, allow you to assign capitals, specialize them, create templates for automatic development, etc, etc. There is really a lot they could do to harness the potential sectors have as a concept. Instead they go and completely neuter them. What we have now is a joke.
Old sectors where just stupid, because AI was inadecuate. This is still the case. Before at least I could "build up" a colony until it reached a maturity point in which I was SURE it needed no more input from my part and be done with it after getting it into a sector for the AI to "safekeep".
On my current games I'm not even sure if that's possible.
I don't know what the AI will do with overcrowding and crime, and planning ahead for those seems to syphon away building slots and work positions that I'd much rather have used in some other way.. a more productive way for my current empire's problems.
Has anyone seen what the AI does with overcrowding and crime if given no permissions to change buildings/works?
On my current games I'm not even sure if that's possible.
I don't know what the AI will do with overcrowding and crime, and planning ahead for those seems to syphon away building slots and work positions that I'd much rather have used in some other way.. a more productive way for my current empire's problems.
Has anyone seen what the AI does with overcrowding and crime if given no permissions to change buildings/works?