Metro stations and passenger behaviour

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djw2000

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Firstly, have been following the forum for some time - amazing work done by Colossal Order and also by all you picking it apart and even starting to mod the game. Stunning. And yes, I intend to create cities myself as soon as the game comes through my letterbox next week! Have got various ideas in my head, both real and fictional...

However, I have a question about something which occurred to me when playing the open beta. I was fooling around trying out various metro concepts in the Vienna map and used stations to support multiple lines (not individual stations, but stations with multiple lines going to them). I was following one of the little characters (another round of applause Col. Order - just love the concept of people with names who you can sit and watch), who, to reach their destination, would have to get out at a stop, cross the platform and then catch a connection leaving in the other direction. However, they left the train and left the station and sought out a different mode of transport.
Now, I'm sure I've been blind and someone has commented on this, but are passengers meant to ignore cross-platform metro connections or getting off a metro train, waiting on the platform for a different line and getting on? It's just a little quibble of mine and can be worked around with multiple stations but I just thought I'd comment on it!
Otherwise, these last few weeks have been agonising, waiting for this game to come out! Bravo Colossal Order!
 

djw2000

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Well that's what I thought too, but in a place where the trains do not terminate it honestly didn't happen. The character in question ignored the fact that the shortest, simplest route was to cross the platform and wait but instead went upstairs and walked a bit and then caught a tram. As I say, maybe, despite hours and hours of playing the open beta, I have missed something...
 

Lockheart

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If I might chip in on this?

Like Dozer showed, passengers will transfer from one platform to another, however, so far in the beta, if they find a better route(however the system may consider better to be) they will take that over the oblivoius shorter route. Many times I've followed people and assumed the stop they'd get off that would be close to the area they wanted, only to find them get off a stop or two earlier and walk the rest of the way, even if the next stop was basically at the front of their door. Other times passengers appear to go to the same rough area taking the same route but will take a different route(if transfering) at different stops.

Passengers pay every time they step onto a vehicle, which might discourage them from taking a second train if it's only a short walk instead.

Actually I've noticed from my own runs with the beta that passengers transfering from one bus/train to another don't pay again, however I could see every NEW viehical they might pay, say Train -> Bus they would pay but not from train to train, etc. Just my two cents on that.
 

unmerged(266800)

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Actually I've noticed from my own runs with the beta that passengers transfering from one bus/train to another don't pay again, however I could see every NEW viehical they might pay, say Train -> Bus they would pay but not from train to train, etc. Just my two cents on that.

You're probably right. At this point whenever I look at a metro station which has more than 100 passengers I get a red mist that's nothing to do with the mood of the waiting passengers; I haven't tried to count the revenue generated by each train...

By the way, I'm going in completely the opposite direction to DJW here. I never let two lines share a platform face. If two lines meet, there are two stations and the passengers walk out of one and into the other. The critical path is the amount of time it takes to move passengers from platform onto train, and sharing the platform with other line's trains doesn't help and isn't worth the cost saving of only building and maintaining one station!

A few thoughts on subways (which are driving me mad!):

Subways are the main source of income (because the tickets are more expensive, journeys are quicker, vehicles have highest capacity, and there's no delays from road congestion - each of those individually makes metro superior to tram/bus). When the subways get congested, the income stops, and so does the game. I'm paying maintenance on trains that are queued up in a tunnel, when they should be flowing and earning revenue. At the same time my bus and tram lines suffer because all their passengers are stuck at the back of a 500-CiMfolk queue miles away. I think it is critical that metros should work for the game to be completely enjoyable, so:

1) Metros should not wait for passengers who've just arrived on the platform! They should not wait at all. Only passengers who are ready to board the train when it arrives should be expected to board. (It is worth waiting for last-second CiMfolk for buses and trams because they run less frequently.) This bug creates a Maddening Drip-Feed situation where the train is always waiting for just one more passenger until it is full. This is terrible for many reasons: it is the slowest way to fill a train. The train is full when it reaches the next stop, which becomes congested. If I add more trains, they just get stuck behind the one waiting in the Drip-Feed station, then they get Drip-Fed in turn, and Cities in Motion becomes Air Raid Shelter Tycoon.

2) There seems to be something weird about how people queue for trains. There's 500 people waiting in the station. A full train arrives, 50 people get off, 40 people get on, then the train and crowd ignore one another while ten more people leisurely stroll on board. I suspect (but haven't been able to check) that the passengers have formed a very exact queue and they're all being very polite. And, also, they know how many people can fit in each carriage and where there's space left for them on the train. So, when the train arrives, instead of the 50 people nearest the doors getting on, the 50 people who've been waiting longest (and who could be standing anywhere on the platform) get on, and this involves an infuriating amount of Waiting for Mr Zimmer Frame.

(I am an English bus driver, and this infuriates me in real life too - when boarding passengers are politely inviting whoever is standing furthest from the door to board the bus first, when there is in fact enough seats for all of them, it makes no difference what order they board, they're just pointlessly delaying an already-late bus...aargh. I've only spent one day on continental Europe, but isn't the stereotype that there's no such thing as a queue over there? That would help CiM - and real-world public transport - enormously :p )

3) Passengers don't check if trains on other Lines will serve their destination. Suppose I build a subway across the city centre and out into a suburb. Suppose the suburban station is a Drip-Feed station. What I do right now is build two Lines on that one Subway - a Shuttle Line that goes from the Drip-Feed station to one platform of the next station, and a Main Line that goes from the other platform to all the rest of the stations. This way, only one train is held up by the Drip-Feed, but there's delay while passengers get off one train, walk around the platform, and get on the other. But the better solution would be to have one line serving all stations, and another just serving the busiest stations. Then the number of trains on each route can be adjusted as needed depending on where the queues are. This doesn't work, though, because the passengers decide which Line to use before starting their journey and would rather stand at the back of a 500-person queue than change their minds!

4) Passengers don't recognise the hopelessness of their situation. If I decided to take the train somewhere, got the bus to the train station, saw a queue of ten train-loads of people spilling from the platform, through the staircase and booking hall, and out into the street, I'd recognise I'd be better off on foot, taxi, or hot air balloon. CiMfolk don't seem to be that aware!

But the root of the problem is number 1: metros waiting when they should be leaving. It is a bad bug, and it is amplifying the other three. Because of it, I can't just add more trains to a line to carry more passengers, because I just end up with an expensive queue. Of course it should not be possible to indefinitely increase a subway's capacity just by buying trains, but the limiting factors should be train capacity, speed, minimum headway etc, not by dimwitted overly-polite train dispatchers!

Everything else about the game is absolutely lovely, by the way.
 

Lockheart

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2) There seems to be something weird about how people queue for trains. There's 500 people waiting in the station. A full train arrives, 50 people get off, 40 people get on, then the train and crowd ignore one another while ten more people leisurely stroll on board. I suspect (but haven't been able to check) that the passengers have formed a very exact queue and they're all being very polite. And, also, they know how many people can fit in each carriage and where there's space left for them on the train. So, when the train arrives, instead of the 50 people nearest the doors getting on, the 50 people who've been waiting longest (and who could be standing anywhere on the platform) get on, and this involves an infuriating amount of Waiting for Mr Zimmer Frame.

(I am an English bus driver, and this infuriates me in real life too - when boarding passengers are politely inviting whoever is standing furthest from the door to board the bus first, when there is in fact enough seats for all of them, it makes no difference what order they board, they're just pointlessly delaying an already-late bus...aargh. I've only spent one day on continental Europe, but isn't the stereotype that there's no such thing as a queue over there? That would help CiM - and real-world public transport - enormously :p )

I can confirm that this very much seems to be some sort of really polite queue line. I've watched some stops that have a lot of people standing at them, even following some people who came last to the stop, they in fact will be the last to board. I assume that the game puts each passenger into the queue and loads them based on their number in that queue, however they line up is freely up to them. So if grandpa decides to stand at the back of the pack and happens to be the first one at the queue, he will be the first to board, as slowly as possible.
 

stevebone

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well that has also an advantage when you have more people waiting than free seats in the vehicle. would seem better to pick up those that have been waiting longer so the station does not turn red if some are left behind for the next vehicle. hope this helps
 

unmerged(266800)

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well that has also an advantage when you have more people waiting than free seats in the vehicle. would seem better to pick up those that have been waiting longer so the station does not turn red if some are left behind for the next vehicle. hope this helps

That's exactly right. So, I suppose the passengers who've waited longest should wait near the platform edge. They can wander around the platform if the station's not busy :)

By the way Lockheart, I can confirm that passengers don't pay to cross the platform and board another Metro. Either that, or there's a lot of fare-dodgers in Vienna!
 

Zarine

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By the way Lockheart, I can confirm that passengers don't pay to cross the platform and board another Metro. Either that, or there's a lot of fare-dodgers in Vienna!

Confirmed. To test it, make a line from the train station to the empty space of the map and another line from this empty place to the center of the town and watch if they get money.
What I didn't test now is if the station is different (no just on the other side of the platform).
 

unmerged(266800)

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I think I went a bit over-the-top in my long post above. When I reloaded, there's still 500 people trying to leave one station, and 200 people trying to go the other way from the next station, and three Livingstone Bulwark/LT 1935 Stock units shuttling between the two platforms. But the rest of the city is still moving and the revenue is pouring in, so the game's not as broken as I'd thought it was.

Would still be great to have this behaviour fixed in the next available patch though :-D