Methods for chipping away at the HRE!

[Tjuk]

I like Sicily. I've liked it in CK and I like it even better in CKII. You can go and fight east, south and west, no biggie. Chopping up muslims, gaining mad piety, and picking up a crusader trait on the way. However, for me the prime objective of a game as Sicily is gaining the titles and lands of the kingdom of Italy. However, this means taking them away from the HRE. In a straight up fight, the'll beat me easily. So I have to take an alternative route. What's your favorite strategy in taking land away from a blob without actually fighting them (directly)?

1. My favorite: Invite a claimant to your court (marry him matrilinealy to your dynasty), give him a county+duchy and set him up to inherit his claim through assassination and plotting. Take back the county+duchy. If he rebels, beat him take away his new duchy, let him rot in the dungeons. Repeat...
2. Join independence wars. After win, construct a claim on the now free duchy and take it in a war. Because of the shape of Italy, independence wars for the Italien duchies either go my way or are finished before the German troops reach Palermo. For some reason, relationship with the emperor doesn't suffer from this.
3. Marry female rulers or heirs to dynasty members. Get their child elected as your heir. If it fails and someone else is your heir, someone form your dynasty is still ruler over that Duchy, giving a boost in relations, possibility of inherited claims, and increases the chance he'll join you as a vassal once he becomes independent.

Okey, maybe my stuff is pretty straightforward. Perhaps you guys can help me with a little bit more creative methods.

 

[Loderingo]

I like Sicily. I've liked it in CK and I like it even better in CKII. You can go and fight east, south and west, no biggie. Chopping up muslims, gaining mad piety, and picking up a crusader trait on the way. However, for me the prime objective of a game as Sicily is gaining the titles and lands of the kingdom of Italy. However, this means taking them away from the HRE. In a straight up fight, the'll beat me easily. So I have to take an alternative route. What's your favorite strategy in taking land away from a blob without actually fighting them (directly)?

1. My favorite: Invite a claimant to your court (marry him matrilinealy to your dynasty), give him a county+duchy and set him up to inherit his claim through assassination and plotting. Take back the county+duchy. If he rebels, beat him take away his new duchy, let him rot in the dungeons. Repeat...
2. Join independence wars. After win, construct a claim on the now free duchy and take it in a war. Because of the shape of Italy, independence wars for the Italien duchies either go my way or are finished before the German troops reach Palermo. For some reason, relationship with the emperor doesn't suffer from this.
3. Marry female rulers or heirs to dynasty members. Get their child elected as your heir. If it fails and someone else is your heir, someone form your dynasty is still ruler over that Duchy, giving a boost in relations, possibility of inherited claims, and increases the chance he'll join you as a vassal once he becomes independent.

Okey, maybe my stuff is pretty straightforward. Perhaps you guys can help me with a little bit more creative methods.

4 Look at who the Kaiser's heir is. If it is a good heir then bump him off. Try to make sure the HRE is inherited by a child or someone with bad traits or a noble from another dynasty with only a few holdings in their personal demesne (the Kaiser will tend to try to accumulate more land in their personal demesne which makes him slightly more powerful vs. the vassals. So a 1 or 2 county Kaiser will be weaker)

5 Join the HRE and destroy it from the inside. Start "Lower crown authority faction" and then execute it when the Kaiser is in the middle of a big war as he is more likely to give in without a fight. Once you have reduced crown law to minimal or autonomous vassals start an independence faction

 

[Jeltz]

6. If you have a claim on a duchy wait until it is involved in an independence war and then press your claim and win the war before the HRE troops arrive.

 

[unmerged(574529)]

whenever I can I become vassal

is always easier to destroy something from inside

 

[unmerged(471935)]

Destroying someone from the inside is always the easiest way.I started as a random count in italy vassal of HRE and when i had all of italy i just waited for the succession crisis.Independence was easy...