So I started a game as Polotsk and did a major land grab against the pagans to create the Kingdom of Lithuania. As my demense got bigger, I gave counties and duchies to mayors that liked me a lot. However they continued being the mayor plus carrying the count or duke title of a completely different title. Now I have very weird duchies/counties whose title will include a random city in another county. I am trying to fix it so I can get everything lined up the way it's supposed to be. However I have these mayors that are also dukes so I can't make them vassals of another duke. The only way I can think of is to strip mayoral titles from my dukes and give them to courtiers but that will just lead to everyone getting royally pissed and my kingdom fracturing. Is there a way to fix this without causing a surefire rebellion? Thanks.
Messed up vassalage - how to fix without revoking titles and pissing everyone off?
- Thread starter unmerged(618336)
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Since you should have decent piety from the holy wars I'm guessing you could just imprison everyone, banish them all, and then summon in new characters to start over.
Sounds like OCD though.
Sounds like OCD though.
As a ruler, sometimes you need to make hard decisions. If the vassal structure is messed up, or some vassals are too powerful the only thing you can do is revoke titles, and distribute them more appropriately. Will they hate you for it? Yes. Will you be better off in the long run? Definitely.
Do this when your ruler is old, or especially if they're already infirm and likely to die. No matter how much your vassals hate your tyrannical rule, your heir will start with a clean slate. What I often do when I obtain a large kingdom (e.g. obtaining France as an heir of William the Conqueror) is spend a king's reign uprooting all the vassals and replacing them with dynasty members that hold only proper de jure lands.
Do this when your ruler is old, or especially if they're already infirm and likely to die. No matter how much your vassals hate your tyrannical rule, your heir will start with a clean slate. What I often do when I obtain a large kingdom (e.g. obtaining France as an heir of William the Conqueror) is spend a king's reign uprooting all the vassals and replacing them with dynasty members that hold only proper de jure lands.
If it's really bothering you and you don't want to fix it the hard way, you can always use the console command give_title to take back the titles you want to re-distribute.
Well the main reason is I think its irritating the AI and giving me a -30 hit in opinion for wrong government type (if this is caused by something else let me know). Occasionally I'll get vassals complaining that that a city should be their vassal when since the mayor is also a duke, they report directly to me. I'm trying to give out my duke titles to appease my vassals but it gets weird when a duke title contains a random city in another county (especially when its a city in one of my counties).
In the future, is there a way to give a county or duchy to a mayor but they have to give up their city without having to revoke the title? Or is the only way to avoid this mess to never promote mayors?
In the future, is there a way to give a county or duchy to a mayor but they have to give up their city without having to revoke the title? Or is the only way to avoid this mess to never promote mayors?
If I understand correctly here, you're giving a county to a mayor who holds a city in a completely different and unrelated county. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Generally speaking, you don't want to do that, for the reasons you have discovered above. Also, the county seat is most likely a feudal barony, so the mayor will take a hit to the taxes he collects from it. The entire point of Lord-Mayors and Doges is that they give increased tax revenue, so you want them running cities. In the future, if you want to set up Lord-Mayors and Doges, give them the counties that their cities reside in; this will cause the city to promote to the county seat, and the mayor will give the barony away to a minor baron. However, you only want to do this in same-culture and same-religion areas, as you have noted the -30 wrong government opinion hit; there's nothing you can do about this, so ensuring your mayors have fewer reasons to be pissed at you is a good thing.
As for your current situation; I'm guessing the county seats in those counties are still baronies held by the mayors. If you revoke the mayor's town, they will simply become feudal vassals at that point. The best way to clean this up would be to use your Chancellor to fabricate a claim on the counties, revoke them, and then hand them off to the LOCAL mayor if you still want a mayor running the county; otherwise use a feudal vassal or the local bishop. The revoked mayor will scurry back to his barony-level town and not cause you any trouble (although he will pay you severely reduced taxes due to -80 "revoked my title").
Generally speaking, you don't want to do that, for the reasons you have discovered above. Also, the county seat is most likely a feudal barony, so the mayor will take a hit to the taxes he collects from it. The entire point of Lord-Mayors and Doges is that they give increased tax revenue, so you want them running cities. In the future, if you want to set up Lord-Mayors and Doges, give them the counties that their cities reside in; this will cause the city to promote to the county seat, and the mayor will give the barony away to a minor baron. However, you only want to do this in same-culture and same-religion areas, as you have noted the -30 wrong government opinion hit; there's nothing you can do about this, so ensuring your mayors have fewer reasons to be pissed at you is a good thing.
As for your current situation; I'm guessing the county seats in those counties are still baronies held by the mayors. If you revoke the mayor's town, they will simply become feudal vassals at that point. The best way to clean this up would be to use your Chancellor to fabricate a claim on the counties, revoke them, and then hand them off to the LOCAL mayor if you still want a mayor running the county; otherwise use a feudal vassal or the local bishop. The revoked mayor will scurry back to his barony-level town and not cause you any trouble (although he will pay you severely reduced taxes due to -80 "revoked my title").
I don't think there's a way, no. You can give the county or duchy to a random courtier, they'll be grateful enough that you won't have to worry about their loyalty in their lifetime.
Giving duchies to mayors makes it a Grand City or something like that, since it's a burgher vassal it'll give you lots of money but you get the opinion hit you mentioned, personally I don't tend to do it, though it may be worthwhile in a county with lots of cities.
If you want to give duchies to mayors without them holding land in other places however, you can create a new vasal in the county's city (if you happen to hold the city like after a holy war), and then give the whole county to that mayor, the capital will change to the city instead of the castle and he'll give the castle to a new vassal, making it a barony, you can then give the duchy to him.
Giving duchies to mayors makes it a Grand City or something like that, since it's a burgher vassal it'll give you lots of money but you get the opinion hit you mentioned, personally I don't tend to do it, though it may be worthwhile in a county with lots of cities.
If you want to give duchies to mayors without them holding land in other places however, you can create a new vasal in the county's city (if you happen to hold the city like after a holy war), and then give the whole county to that mayor, the capital will change to the city instead of the castle and he'll give the castle to a new vassal, making it a barony, you can then give the duchy to him.
IF you have medium crown authority, you can revoke infidel titles freely. I think your court chaplain can make a noble heretic, but thats pretty random.
Another way is to excommunicate a duke and imprison/release him until he revolts, then you conquer him and can strip 1 title. If he is still excommunicated, rinse and repeat.
Yet another way is plotting. IF youre content, you might not have any plots, but otherwise you might have one to revoke counties and the like. Check those.
I dont know if it works, but you could send the 6 year old heir of a duke to a pagan educator, and hope he comes pagan, too. Then you assassinate the duke and get an infidel young duke.
Another way is to excommunicate a duke and imprison/release him until he revolts, then you conquer him and can strip 1 title. If he is still excommunicated, rinse and repeat.
Yet another way is plotting. IF youre content, you might not have any plots, but otherwise you might have one to revoke counties and the like. Check those.
I dont know if it works, but you could send the 6 year old heir of a duke to a pagan educator, and hope he comes pagan, too. Then you assassinate the duke and get an infidel young duke.
I'd take this as a lesson to be more careful about how you dish out your titles in future.
Personally I follow these basic rules:
Only give out one duchy title to any one person, and only to an existing title holder if they only hold land in the de-jure duchy.
Only give out titles to somebody of your culture and religion.
Keep all duchies within their de-jure borders, with no additional territory elsewhere.
Also, I like to keep my kingdom with gavelkind succession so that any duchies I create will also have gavelkind succession and any instances of individuals becoming too poweful are dealt with on succession. I also like to have low crown authority so that any problems with de-jure boundaries can be sorted out by the individuals involved. For example, if you somehow end up with a duke who owns a county in another duke's de-jure then the second duke will get a de-jure claim and be able to fight a war to get the county back, sorting out the problem by itself.
So, my suggestion if you want to carry on playing the game and try to sort out the problem without all your vassals hating you would be to reduce CA to low and let them all sort it out by themselves. They'll actually like you more for this.
Personally I follow these basic rules:
Only give out one duchy title to any one person, and only to an existing title holder if they only hold land in the de-jure duchy.
Only give out titles to somebody of your culture and religion.
Keep all duchies within their de-jure borders, with no additional territory elsewhere.
Also, I like to keep my kingdom with gavelkind succession so that any duchies I create will also have gavelkind succession and any instances of individuals becoming too poweful are dealt with on succession. I also like to have low crown authority so that any problems with de-jure boundaries can be sorted out by the individuals involved. For example, if you somehow end up with a duke who owns a county in another duke's de-jure then the second duke will get a de-jure claim and be able to fight a war to get the county back, sorting out the problem by itself.
So, my suggestion if you want to carry on playing the game and try to sort out the problem without all your vassals hating you would be to reduce CA to low and let them all sort it out by themselves. They'll actually like you more for this.
Yeah I decided to abandon the save and start fresh. Created a ruler for Sweden but might go back to Polotsk since in Sweden I am just dealing with infighting and converting the northern part of the country to Catholicism. Forgot how nice it was starting as Polotsk controlling all the counties with lots of ripe pagan territory to conquer. Need to find a Catholic version of Polotsk.
Definatly Iberia and use Holy War!!!
1. Murder your brothers
2. Reconquista
3. Blob into Africa
(4. Blob into everything else)
1. Murder your brothers
2. Reconquista
3. Blob into Africa
(4. Blob into everything else)