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pthooie

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Removing QoL features makes perfect sense if you also redesign the game in such a way that those features are no longer relevant. Message settings (and in particular, auto-pause options) are still a useful QoL feature because the following is still true for all Paradox games:
  1. Things happen in the game, and the player might want to respond to them.
  2. Time advances automatically, so the player might miss something if they don't react quickly enough.
To justify removing message settings, at least one of the above would also have to be removed. The first one is not possible to remove because it covers literally everything that happens in the game. The second one could theoretically be removed by replacing automatically advancing ticks with a "next turn" button (which wouldn't even require changing any game mechanics), but that would be tedious because you would have to press that button every turn.
 
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My personal opinion: Automatically advancing time with auto-pause would be much better than manually cycling ticks. Especially if there are long stretches of time where nothing happens that I need to respond to.

The thing is: If I just played on speed 1 or 2 the entire game, then yes, I probably wouldn't even really need auto-pause, because I can react quickly enough on my own. But I don't *want* to play on speed 1 or 2 the entire game.
 
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My personal opinion: Automatically advancing time with auto-pause would be much better than manually cycling ticks. Especially if there are long stretches of time where nothing happens that I need to respond to.

The thing is: If I just played on speed 1 or 2 the entire game, then yes, I probably wouldn't even really need auto-pause, because I can react quickly enough on my own. But I don't *want* to play on speed 1 or 2 the entire game.

A "proceed to next event" button would suit how I play the game perfectly.
 
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Torakka

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Not directly related to message settings, but I spotted the following conversation in the newest dev diary:
I really hope we get a ledger for Victoria 3, as the massive amount of information that we are shown to have access to in these dev diaries scream be organized in some form of easily accessible overview. I don't want to have to click on provinces frantically trying to find out which is in the worst economic state, or which one is producing the most oil, which enemy state province would be the most valuable to grab, etc. I want pie charts, graphs, plots!! Please bring them back in some form!

Also please bring back message settings, playing Crusader kings III has made me go crazy with the amount of notifications I can never permanently dismiss.
Our approach here is to actually try to figure out what information is relevant to a player in which contexts and provide that, rather than a ledger filled with raw numbers. The latter would be much easier (text-based infodumps are dead simple) but
a) it's overwhelming to a player who doesn't already understand how everything in the game works, which works against our philosophy on accessibility
b) as soon as we start to make information available in a ledger format we reduce the pressure on ourselves to make it available in a more useful context

So we do have pie charts, graphs, and plots, but we show them alongside the items they pertain to, not in a separate information system. You should absolutely not have to click through a bunch of states to figure out what's going on with them - we have summaries for that in a number of places, often using the map and sortable lists to visualize that kind of information.

That's certainly not to rule out the idea of a raw infodump function in the future! We can't intelligently pre-parse all information for all use cases and besides, a lot of the data is just really fun to drown in absorb. But it's not our go-to solution for solving the kinds of use cases you're describing, since we have a lot of other methods at our disposal to expose that kind of data.
I wonder if it would be possible to provide a 'blank' ledger for modders to easily add pages from raw datasets? That would achieve all of the goal set out here... and most likely generate a whole host of ledger page mods to keep all the old grognards happy.
This is almost certainly doable already to some degree through UI modding! But the takeaway here is that we're not in any way anti-ledger, we're just against putting something like that in as a primary solution to the kinds of gameplay problems listed (like "where can I find oil" or "which of my states are costing me the most money") since that would relieve us from the responsibility of connecting the actionable information with the actions. There's an utterly ridiculous amount of raw data in the game already and where we think it makes sense and/or is just plain fun to gather and summarize it, we absolutely will!

The first message actually also included mention of message settings, which lachek then tacitly ignored in his reply, but it is at least sort of nice to see that the developers are not categorically opposed to things like ledger and especially that they seem to be really interested in making sure players are able to get the information they want and need. I'm still not very optimistic we will see message settings in Victoria at the launch, but this makes me hopeful that it might not be an impossible task to get at least some similar functionality added later on.
 
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My personal opinion: Automatically advancing time with auto-pause would be much better than manually cycling ticks. Especially if there are long stretches of time where nothing happens that I need to respond to.

The thing is: If I just played on speed 1 or 2 the entire game, then yes, I probably wouldn't even really need auto-pause, because I can react quickly enough on my own. But I don't *want* to play on speed 1 or 2 the entire game.
Well, I for one like to just watch the world between events, but I can understand your suggestion, and sometimes it could be fun to let time pass quicker between events without feeling assailed by them and fearing missing important things. What prevents you to just select speed 5 and auto-pause on all events, though?

Also, I agree this isn't a good argument at all, as solo play is important as well, but this would not work at all in multiplayer, as players would always be stopped because someone got an event.
 
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Well, I for one like to just watch the world between events, but I can understand your suggestion, and sometimes it could be fun to let time pass quicker between events without feeling assailed by them and fearing missing important things. What prevents you to just select speed 5 and auto-pause on all events, though?

Also, I agree this isn't a good argument at all, as solo play is important as well, but this would not work at all in multiplayer, as players would always be stopped because someone got an event.

The thing is I don't just want to auto-pause on events, but also on other things. Particularly alerts and notifications.

Also, as I have said before, I would really like it if auto-pause worked in multiplayer as well, at least as an option. Maybe one day I will actually go through the effort to try and implement a multiplayer auto-pause mod, because otherwise I don't see myself playing pdx games in multiplayer ever again.
 
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Lack of message settings and possibility to set almost anything to autopause (in newer Paradox games, that is) :(
And (afaik) a lack of ability to be modded in.
 
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Keeping in mind recent CK3 news, it's certain for me, that the fact, that message setting never gonna officially added, is set in stone as well as fact, that Vic3 will eventually and more likely sooner than later will get console version, what is, in fact, explain many questional (in my opinion) design choices showed in DDs so far.
 

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Keeping in mind recent CK3 news, it's certain for me, that the fact, that message setting never gonna officially added, is set in stone as well as fact, that Vic3 will eventually and more likely sooner than later will get console version, what is, in fact, explain many questional (in my opinion) design choices showed in DDs so far.
Which design choices do you think were made to facilitate console ports?
 

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Keeping in mind recent CK3 news, it's certain for me, that the fact, that message setting never gonna officially added, is set in stone as well as fact, that Vic3 will eventually and more likely sooner than later will get console version, what is, in fact, explain many questional (in my opinion) design choices showed in DDs so far.
Can't say how Paradox views it, but at least I'd definitely want message settings as console player too. Maybe even more than as PC player, assuming console UI shows less stuff at once or that scanning around map or menus is even more tedious than on PC.
 
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Can't say how Paradox views it, but at least I'd definitely want message settings as console player too. Maybe even more than as PC player, assuming console UI shows less stuff at once or that scanning around map or menus is even more tedious than on PC.

A big plus one to this - I actually prefer most of my gaming on console when it's not strategy gaming, and have played Civ, Warcraft, Age of Empires and Cities Skylines on a Playstation of some kind or other (as well as Railroad Tycoon - one of the early ones - loved it :) ). That said, while I prefer a gamepad for action games and RPGs, I've yet to find a console UI that works well for Paradox-style strategy games (I can still have trouble with a mouse with some of the smaller provinces when things are all packed in together).

Anyways, from someone who's played thousands of hours on console, at least from my perspective there is absolutely no sensible reason for limiting information just because it's on console, and a good argument for making it more surfaced.
 
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What prevents you to just select speed 5 and auto-pause on all events, though?

That was indeed mostly how I played CK2 and other older Paradox games. Sadly that is not possible any more in their newer games which is why threads like this exists, there is no way for me to have CK3 pause after I win a battle etc.
 
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That was indeed mostly how I played CK2 and other older Paradox games. Sadly that is not possible any more in their newer games which is why threads like this exists, there is no way for me to have CK3 pause after I win a battle etc.
You are perfectly right. I played CK3 yesterday with a friend, and we were always doing pauses to react to events or take a decision. We were only at speed 3.
 
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Lord Canterbury

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That was indeed mostly how I played CK2 and other older Paradox games. Sadly that is not possible any more in their newer games which is why threads like this exists, there is no way for me to have CK3 pause after I win a battle etc.
That's the real problem for me. I'm not overly concerned with having hundreds of adjustable message settings. What I need is basic auto-pausing functionality for units. The option to pause for army/navy arrival, for battle start/conclusion, and for siege start/conclusion. If Vic3 is mostly a builder, I'd expect this would extend to pause on building completion.
 
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pthooie

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That's the real problem for me. I'm not overly concerned with having hundreds of adjustable message settings. What I need is basic auto-pausing functionality for units. The option to pause for army/navy arrival, for battle start/conclusion, and for siege start/conclusion. If Vic3 is mostly a builder, I'd expect this would extend to pause on building completion.
Yes, movement, battles and sieges are probably the most important things to have auto-pause options for. But there are other things where I think they're just as essential: when someone declares war on you, when you get called to arms, when a revolt starts etc. And probably lots of other stuff that's specific to V3.
 
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I suppose the overlap of people following this and other similar message setting thread on other games' forums is pretty high, but for those not following the HoI4 thread this quote from @Axe99 might be interesting. (Also Axe, do you happen to have link to the interview you mention there?)
From this interview (which is a good 'un) - it's clear Podcat attempted to design the game such that it wouldn't need to pause - while that actually means notifications are more important than less (if there's less time to scan around the map, surfacing info becomes critical), I suspect what it meant was that a robust notification system was never part of the initial design.

Also part of the interview though - despite the devs' best attempts, it turns out we actually really like being able to play-and-pause:



Not a surprise to any of us - I've been arguing a "one-size fits all" system is inherently anti-accessibility from the beginning (because it is, by definition). But now that it's been acknowledged by the former game designer that the (in my view, given the complexity of the game, somewhat optimistic) attempt to move away from play-and-pause wasn't successful, it makes for a decent argument to implement a robust, optional (as per the above, a one-size fits all system means a small proportion of players love it, and the rest have to suffer it) system of information surfacing to players with optional pausing.

Given the effort spent on supporting multiplayer, when it's a tiny fraction of the playerbase (see quote below - note, I'm not suggesting doing less for MP - I'm a big fan of a game supporting a diverse audience), it wouldn't seem that it would be an inappropriate use of resources, relative to how audience size (noting that, of course, those decisions are up to the devs, and I'll respect what they decide to do one way or the other). Bear in mind that the proportion of players that used pausing notifications was something like 50% larger than the entire MP playerbase, and ridiculously larger than the large online group competitive playerbase.
 
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Timewalker102

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If devs couldn't make pausing less necessary in a game like HOI4 - which is a wargame with constant action, they're not going to make it work in Vic3, which is a lot more information and data-heavy. This makes the central point of the thread of implementing message settings even more important
 
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