Professionalism is a step in the right direction, but I'm really hoping Paradox delivers something soon to combat mercspam insanity.
Mercspam
- Thread starter Pyramid_Head
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updated.
I don't know why people are suddenly so upset that the AI actually plays to win for now instead of handicapping itself like crazy by building docks all over the place. Mercspam? "help I do not get auto 100% warscore after stackwiping the first enemy army"
I beat the crap up of ottoman likely due to the difference in professionalism... their mercspam hurt them, which is different than before... They had had first war around 80k more than me, but I was able to pull through since they lost more than me every battle
I'm fine with the AI playing to win, but the mechanics themselves are not fun or interesting. Mercspam is dumb and annoying and removes a lot of strategy from the game. It's a bandaid because the AI doesn't understand when a war is lost -- just like other lame AI bandaids like 5% max attrition and hurr durr 'length of war'.
- mercenary infantry is quite cheap
- mercenaries are plenty
- you hire mercenary infantry and mix it with regular cavalry (if you have any) and artillery. Mercenary infantry takes most casualties and saves you MP.
- mercenaries don't drain manpower, they reinforce from nowhere using gold
- If you lack gold, you can take loans... from nowhere (???)
- reinforcements from unlimited source means you can ignore attrition
- 'available mercenaries' is a derivative from your FL, so '+FL' buildings are much more valuable than '+MP' ones
Here is the suggestion thread
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Merc spam could be solved(If it even needs to be solved) with one easy move.
Make a cooldown on Merc recruitment. If you recruit a Merc it takes up a "Slot" that can't be recruited from again for ## years. So if the Ottomans can recruit 70 mercs, they get stack wiped and recruit all 70 in one go. Now they can't recruit any more until each merc slot has reached cooldown. "Slots" gained from FL buildings or ideas start on cooldown.
Now we can use mercs in a pinch, but can't abuse them.
Make a cooldown on Merc recruitment. If you recruit a Merc it takes up a "Slot" that can't be recruited from again for ## years. So if the Ottomans can recruit 70 mercs, they get stack wiped and recruit all 70 in one go. Now they can't recruit any more until each merc slot has reached cooldown. "Slots" gained from FL buildings or ideas start on cooldown.
Now we can use mercs in a pinch, but can't abuse them.
people aren't upset about AI being smarter with the economy. I'm all for it and I think a lot of other players are as well. it's the dull mercspam warfare that's upsetting people. a game without accountability for manpower/attrition is not fun for me, and it appears I'm far from alone with this opinion. the AI getting better economies is just the putting the ancient issue of mercspam on full display. Now instead of the Ottos flooding you with 50-75 mercs, it's 75-100 mercs. and Ming it's the same thing.
I'll give it to Paradox. they've tried to fix issues like zone of control (the scrapped state-based system), and mercs (professionalism, drilling), but still not quite there yet.
a)make mercs become more expensive more they die while fighting for you (permant incrase at low rates. like %0.01 for every 1k stack or more I dont want to murder merc based countries) so merc cavalaries and artilarries will be usable for merc based armies. this will symbolize mercs harder to find so ones willing to fight shall demand more money
b)Make mercs have low morale at late game compared to prof armies
c)Add a peace deal to reduce nation's merc use to half
b)Make mercs have low morale at late game compared to prof armies
c)Add a peace deal to reduce nation's merc use to half
This would make a lot of sense as a splendor purchase in the Age of Revolutions. IIRC treaties limiting the size of other nations militaries were a thing at the time.
It would need to cost a lot of warscore and only last as long as the treaty.
yea that would make it better since currently its most effected age
wich also most weakest age of mercs in our time 
Mercs need to be more independent. A simple fix would seem to be to reduce the pool and increase the price of available mercs if you're heavily outnumbered in a war; not too many guys want to sign up for a lost cause. There should also be an event or mechanic that represents mercs deserting, or even defecting. They shouldn't be terribly reliable.
People are bot complaining that the AI plays to win but that to win you have to Mercspam.
Change the way wars are fought or increase the amount of manpower each country has access to.
Mercs are already ungodly expensive.
If you get swarmed by Ottomans mercs after wiping their first army then stop sitting on your hands and keep them from recruiting by occupying as many provinces as you can get to.
Just sitting on one fort and waiting for the war to win itself cant be the way to go.
Mercs are actually really cheap unless you buy artillery. Start as any opm and buy 5-10 of them with your starting cash and some loans, crush your neighbours in short wars and easily pay back those few loans.
Sitting on a fort while the other side lost resources and money was actually the way to win wars, not carpet sieging half of Europe. Could be boring in game though.
Maybe mercs should remain as cheap as they are but don't reinforce at all so attrition eats them. Individual, slowly regenerating merc pools should accompany such a change. Also, loans are way too easy to manage. The interest should increase with every loan you take.
I try to play merc free and always take quantity (or aristocratic with a cav tag) since the dlc release. When my manpower is gone I have to consolidate and try to finish the war quickly.
It feels much more realistic and requires careful planning accompanied by peace times to regenerate but can be a bit frustrating against a Merc spam nation on vh.
It gives a nice incentive to play the game at a much slower pace than the usual merc spam power play. (Aka pay loans through conquests)
You don't though. You can WC without hiring a single merc. You can over-run a merced up enemy by actually putting some thought into how you prosecute the war. They can't hire mercs from occupied provinces, for example.
Mercspam makes entire game mechanics void
Attrition - it was already near irrelevant because of 5% max limit. And being only harmful very early, when countries have no strong economy to sustain swarms of mercs and manpower replacements. But with mercs attrition becoming a dead mechanics, which have zero impact on the game.
Manpower - I posted a screenshot of Ottomans with 70 mercs but I have other screens, like Ming with 170 mercs. One hundred seventy. They had 0 manpower but this issue have no impact on their ability to wage wars. Every war involving several majors turns into a mercfest, with age-long wars, being fought with neverending swarms.
Attrition - it was already near irrelevant because of 5% max limit. And being only harmful very early, when countries have no strong economy to sustain swarms of mercs and manpower replacements. But with mercs attrition becoming a dead mechanics, which have zero impact on the game.
Manpower - I posted a screenshot of Ottomans with 70 mercs but I have other screens, like Ming with 170 mercs. One hundred seventy. They had 0 manpower but this issue have no impact on their ability to wage wars. Every war involving several majors turns into a mercfest, with age-long wars, being fought with neverending swarms.
I was wondering if what I'd been seeing was just a string of bad luck. The Ottomans went up to 200 for me in a madly desperate bid to kill me, in general seeing numbers over 100 is very common now (identical situation to Pyramid_Head with Ming in my recent Hindustan multiplayer run), and even early on Poland now seems to obliterate its economy with them if they don't get a clean kill on the Teutons (which they struggle with more now, seemingly).
Because it plays not to win, but to die harder in the long run, precisely because the mercs are just a frustrating nuisance that isn't actually that tough to deal with which the AI somehow interprets as a surprise I WIN button even though it isn't one. AI Poland is beyond pathetic in this patch, and it's not the only one.
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I'm playing my current campaign trying hard not to mercspam despite having the thousands of ducats needed to do it. Makes for much slower expansion together with a couple setbacks in wars here and there, but feels much more realistic and rewarding. Mercspam feels like playing a RTS, not grand strategy.
One solution would be to increase the combat bonus to army professionalization and drilling, so mercspan would no longer be the no-brainer option and more of a second resort auxiliary option. Basically, turning mercs into a type of militia instead of endless soldier wave they currently are.
One solution would be to increase the combat bonus to army professionalization and drilling, so mercspan would no longer be the no-brainer option and more of a second resort auxiliary option. Basically, turning mercs into a type of militia instead of endless soldier wave they currently are.
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Historically mercs were the main method for maintaining a war that lasted more than a single campaign. This idea that everyone should have professional conscript armies in the 1500s is completely anachronistic. Professionalism should be tied more to army tradition and military technology. That way getting to 100% is something that opens up in the latter half of the game for experienced militaries. The front-loaded bonuses might need to be improved then.
If anything mercenaries should be better than they are now, and exist as unique unit types based on regions, perhaps with a flat +5% discipline and +10% combat ability bonus (provided national military ideas could be made to exclude them). That would make them the (expensive) go to solution for early wars, but fall behind later developments in national armies.
The real problem at the moment is that the mercenary pool is too deep and replenishes very quickly. Even without +merc ideas it's fairly easy to reconsolidate and rehire entire infantry frontlines after every battle. Hiring out all the mercenaries in a location, or having the price to retain certain condottieri or captains shoot up happened more than once in this period. Why not reflect this by having Regional Mercenary Pools that become more expensive as the amount lowers and thenrefill slower? Add to this tighter restrictions on the amount that can be hired at once, and you have a far more realistic and engaging system.
This could hopefully even move Eu4 towards a state where losing a decisive battle or having an army routed is more of a cause to consider peace as it's a greater blow to fighting capacity. The ability to wage protracted high intensity wars is a later feature in this time.
If anything mercenaries should be better than they are now, and exist as unique unit types based on regions, perhaps with a flat +5% discipline and +10% combat ability bonus (provided national military ideas could be made to exclude them). That would make them the (expensive) go to solution for early wars, but fall behind later developments in national armies.
The real problem at the moment is that the mercenary pool is too deep and replenishes very quickly. Even without +merc ideas it's fairly easy to reconsolidate and rehire entire infantry frontlines after every battle. Hiring out all the mercenaries in a location, or having the price to retain certain condottieri or captains shoot up happened more than once in this period. Why not reflect this by having Regional Mercenary Pools that become more expensive as the amount lowers and thenrefill slower? Add to this tighter restrictions on the amount that can be hired at once, and you have a far more realistic and engaging system.
This could hopefully even move Eu4 towards a state where losing a decisive battle or having an army routed is more of a cause to consider peace as it's a greater blow to fighting capacity. The ability to wage protracted high intensity wars is a later feature in this time.
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