Merchants, Diplomats, Colonists and Missionary Rework

[Heivland]

Does anyone else think that it's heavily unrealistic that throughout the game we have the same people living 400 years and being a diplomat or a merchant? I mean I don't know, I haven't played for a while, but it looks like they're just not dying.

I think that this part of the game should get a rework so that diplomats have age, death risk, skill and special ability like one could be better at improving relations with countries, the other with annexing and such. Same could go with merchants, skill level giving more trade power than just 2 per base, which would make players put different merchants to different nodes depending where would it be most prolific. Missionaries should also be able to have different tasks apart from converting because often they're just sitting living on tax money and colonists... I don't know.

Just an idea.

 

[MatthewP]

Sure, but it is nice for the player to have some companions in immortality

As a serious answer, I think the consensus has been that players wouldn't like the micromanagement of having to keep track of different diplomats' and merchants abilities. It adds extra clicks in several places, complicates things like the macro builder, etc. You do get some added tactical decisions and realism but it's a tradeoff that has been determined not to be worth it.

 

[Heivland]

Nah, I don't think so. This game IS about micromanagement, look at estates, army compositions, HRE as a whole etc. This could be made in an uninvasive way such as estates. You could micro it, but if you left it be, it's going to be alright too.

 

[MatthewP]

I was mostly just parroting the reasons that have been given in the past. I think I agree with you when it comes to merchants. They don't have to move around so much. But on the other hand I'm not sure how many interesting abilities they could have that would change your choices. I guess there could be enough around the different merchant "missions."

for diplomats and missionaries, I do not really want the experience of having to select from a list every time I send a peace offer or improve relations or want to convert a province.

 

[Supersotamies]

you have been integrating your PU for the last 20 years and then your diplomat dies and you have to start all over.

 

[Me_]

Sure, but it is nice for the player to have some companions in immortality

As a serious answer, I think the consensus has been that players wouldn't like the micromanagement of having to keep track of different diplomats' and merchants abilities. It adds extra clicks in several places, complicates things like the macro builder, etc. You do get some added tactical decisions and realism but it's a tradeoff that has been determined not to be worth it.

I wonder if this could be abstracted to minimize micro.

Eg. You have X merchants, say 5 or so and yes, they have individual levels and names and ages, but the strength of their power is based on the Average or Collective power of all of them (depending on the specifics).

Eg. every Merchant gives 5 power + Collective level of all Merchants, representing the strength of your entire network. Meanwhile every Missionary has base strength of say 1%+1/2* your average Missionary level, representing the efficiency of your missionary work.

 

[Livigy]

As for the characters dying, I would prefer it if they have an instant replacement which does not require any actual management so it will be just a change of name every so often. I like to think of these characters as having a team/assistants etc and they are just the leader of that team so when they die someone gets promoted.

Now if there was potentially expanded mechanics like if your ruler/heir could become a merchant/diplomat/missionary much like they can become a general it may be interesting for potential flavour events as well as some flexibility for temporary concerns. It may also enable a way for your ruler to retire from being a general once they start to hit the twilight years and you don't want them to die faster. I would also like missionaries to be able to do something in addition to conversions such as improving a province much like a colonist can if they aren't making a new colony.

 

[Arizal]

What if your agents indeed aged and died and had different aptitudes, but by setting priorities to different tasks, the game could automatically assign the best ones to the most important tasks and, to prevent needless delays, swap them without question when the priorities change?

It would give them more personality without any drawback for the player. Maybe that option could be turned off in the game settings in favor of a more classic mode where at least the swapping feature wouldn’t be there and you would lose time when this occurs.

 

[MatthewP]

As for the characters dying, I would prefer it if they have an instant replacement which does not require any actual management so it will be just a change of name every so often. I like to think of these characters as having a team/assistants etc and they are just the leader of that team so when they die someone gets promoted.

Now if there was potentially expanded mechanics like if your ruler/heir could become a merchant/diplomat/missionary much like they can become a general it may be interesting for potential flavour events as well as some flexibility for temporary concerns. It may also enable a way for your ruler to retire from being a general once they start to hit the twilight years and you don't want them to die faster. I would also like missionaries to be able to do something in addition to conversions such as improving a province much like a colonist can if they aren't making a new colony.

I like the idea of just swapping in a new one. Then it adds some realism and a little bit of nice "feel" if you get a notification without causing problems or requiring significant gameplay changes. It would be cool if it was possible to see some log of major events the character participated in when they die/retire. Mostly for diplomats, but could also be sorta cool for missionaries too just to see how prolific they were and did they hit any of those missionary events. It would let you build a little story in your head, again without changing gameplay, and players can turn if off with message settings if they get tired of it.

 

[WindingArc]

I'm in favor of changing the names of the existing envoys, but not disrupting their activities. It would be a nice bit of flavor to see different names on them every 30-70 years.

 

[Battlex]

you have been integrating your PU for the last 20 years and then your diplomat dies and you have to start all over.

Or worse you flip to a Republic via event

Does anyone else think that it's heavily unrealistic that throughout the game we have the same people living 400 years and being a diplomat or a merchant? I mean I don't know, I haven't played for a while, but it looks like they're just not dying.

I think that this part of the game should get a rework so that diplomats have age, death risk, skill and special ability like one could be better at improving relations with countries, the other with annexing and such. Same could go with merchants, skill level giving more trade power than just 2 per base, which would make players put different merchants to different nodes depending where would it be most prolific. Missionaries should also be able to have different tasks apart from converting because often they're just sitting living on tax money and colonists... I don't know.

Just an idea.

Nah I prefer advisors being the mortal ones that give buffs

 

[wielkiciensteam]

It all should be replaced with concept of power, similar to colonial and diplomatic power from Victoria 2 (not mana!).

 

[Battlex]

It all should be replaced with concept of power, similar to colonial and diplomatic power from Victoria 2 (not mana!).

Colonial mana you'd just spam ironclads tho to win colonial races

 

[wielkiciensteam]

Colonial mana you'd just spam ironclads tho to win colonial races

Still better than colonists, it reflected actual power of your country and not some abstract "ideas" granting you colonists. Colonial power should come from: ideas, naval power, prestige, sailors, technology. Too much work for EU4 though, hope to see it in EU5.

 

[Battlex]

Still better than colonists, it reflected actual power of your country and not some abstract "ideas" granting you colonists. Colonial power should come from: ideas, naval power, prestige, sailors, technology. Too much work for EU4 though, hope to see it in EU5.

If eu4 had colonies be more dynamic than just weighting 10 years for the native population to disappear that d be great. Colonial ideas use mana, mana comes from monarch or advisors, advisors cost money, so colonies cost money laterally. Restricting colonial ideas to solely those with x number of ports would be a bad choice because not all coastal provinces would have ship making capabilites and tall players would be worse off, but a more in depth colony system would be appreciated

 

[Astalic]

On paper it's interesting, but having to micro my merchant every 20-40 year isn't something i want to do actualy. Also this add a layer of RNG (just imagine your god tier merchant dying at 30 or you getting bad merchant for 50 year).

But they can add immersion by doing what PtY said :

I'm in favor of changing the names of the existing envoys, but not disrupting their activities. It would be a nice bit of flavor to see different names on them every 30-70 years.

 

[Heivland]

On paper it's interesting, but having to micro my merchant every 20-40 year isn't something i want to do actualy. Also this add a layer of RNG (just imagine your god tier merchant dying at 30 or you getting bad merchant for 50 year).

But they can add immersion by doing what PtY said :

Even if only name changing was implemented, I'd be pleased.

 

[Heivland]

you have been integrating your PU for the last 20 years and then your diplomat dies and you have to start all over.

Ah, c'mon. That'd be dumb, true. Why, the diplomat that would come in for the one that died, wouldn't take his place with integration immediately?