Merchants 'attacking' CoTs ...

[unmerged(25223)]

When I send a merchant to a CoT, and they dislodge someone, I suffer a relationship penalty to that country.

This raises 2 questions:
1. Can I influence whether my merchant is going to try to dislodge someone?
I had a situation last night where I was sending a merchant to Persia early on. There were 2 Level1 Merchants there, and the rest was empty.
Mine dislodged one of the existing people, rather than taking an empty spot.
Not only did I annoy a neighbour, but I didn't even end up with a CoT spot for it. What a waste of a Merchant & 15 ducats.
Can I prevent that?

2. When I dislodged the Persians, they were annoyed with me. Fair enough.
How can I tell who's dislodged -me- (so my cossaks can retaliate suitably)?

 

[unmerged(21523)]

When you send a merchant some where the computer makes a few probability calculations to see whether your merchant a)places, b)competes out another merchant, or c)does nothing. As a player, you have no control over who your merchants compete out and I don't know how you can figure out who out-competed you.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

I don't know how you can figure out who out-competed you.

You can't. This feature was never available in EU1 and was only recently (last month that is) introduced in EU2 beta patches. And there is no way to tell who competed your merchant out by observation either - a merchant who competes you out is lost, so you can never seein game who it was.

 

[Morpheus506]

It'll come up with a message "We have competed for trade in Ile de France *or whatever* and lost" or somesuch. When that happens, if you want to retaliate, just annex all your neighbors. Even if it wasn't any of them, you send a message to the competer.

 

[unmerged(25223)]

It's a Question of Style ...

It'll come up with a message "We have competed for trade in Ile de France *or whatever* and lost" or somesuch. When that happens, if you want to retaliate, just annex all your neighbors. Even if it wasn't any of them, you send a message to the competer.

*wry smile* Somehow, Morpheus, it doesn't surprise me that this would be your view.
It does have a lot to recommend it though (primarily "style").

However, one problem is that (if I'm being Spain), then Oman (or equivalent pathetic heaven state) can have a ball watching the Christian Infighting Show when I try to annex France after the Omanese merchant out-competes me.
I can't give those filthy infidels any (more) reasons to laugh at The True Faith, after all.

Though ... I predict your answer is likely to be "Annex them too!"

 

[Nikolai II]

2. When I dislodged the Persians, they were annoyed with me. Fair enough.
How can I tell who's dislodged -me- (so my cossaks can retaliate suitably)?

You should get a 10 (or was it 5) point relations drop with them, so just keep constant attention to your relations with all other countries

 

[unmerged(25223)]

You should get a 10 (or was it 5) point relations drop with them, so just keep constant attention to your relations with all other countries

Let me get this straight ...

I dislodge their merchant, and I suffer a relationship penalty.
Okay ... I'll buy that. I don't like losing merchants; I can see that they wouldn't, either.

They dislodge my merchant, and I -still- get the penalty?
What are they upset about here? They feel so guilty that they get angry with me?
(Please don't tell me that this is supposed to reflect "the-player-likes-them-less" ... I can manage -that- for myself.)

 

[Morpheus506]

It's not that they like you less, it's that you lke them less.

 

[Nikolai II]

Let me get this straight ...

I dislodge their merchant, and I suffer a relationship penalty.
Okay ... I'll buy that. I don't like losing merchants; I can see that they wouldn't, either.

They dislodge my merchant, and I -still- get the penalty?
What are they upset about here? They feel so guilty that they get angry with me?
(Please don't tell me that this is supposed to reflect "the-player-likes-them-less" ... I can manage -that- for myself.)

Relations are always mutual.. that's why the AI always likes the AI.
Hey, I send you a state gift, then we are both happy - now you send me the same state gift and we'll both be extatic

So the same goes for AI dislodging AI.. summary: you don't get the penalty in the second case, they get it but it reflects badly on your mutual relations..

 

[unmerged(25223)]

I guess I can justify it to myself by thinking that "the relationship value represents the aggregate of the views of all (significant) members of both societies."

If it were just the monarch's views, I'd prefer that, "the player likes the other nation less," wasn't included.
I'm quite capable of working out when I like another nation - more so than any game designer can be in advance. (There are cases where I wouldn't issue a -5 for having my merchant removed, and other cases where I'd almost think of it as a CB. Especially if it were a Spanish merchant out-competing me...)

If I look at it as reflecting the anger within my merchant guilds and nobility, it makes it easier to understand, though ...