Merchant republics

[Sandmann]

So boring that merchant republics are only for a very few states, if you wanna switch to a merchant republic you have to wait until 2 idea groups are completed before expanding beyond 20 provinces. How many would do that? 1% of the players? The sandbox is getting smaller and smaller for every patch.

 

[Fionnix]

So boring that merchant republics are only for a very few states, if you wanna switch to a merchant republic you have to wait until 2 idea groups are completed before expanding beyond 10 provinces. How many would do that? 1% of the players? The sandbox is getting smaller and smaller for every patch.

I don't think just because it limits your expansion early game means the sandbox is getting smaller, and remember the ability to become a merchant republic is relatively new,

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's 20 provinces now, but yes it sucks that republics, which are a non-luck based government (comparatively anyway) require luck (low legitimacy heir or no heir) to switch into in addition to gimping your expansion intentionally, and that you still only have one non-European option.

Merchant republics don't get -LA now though so it's questionable if they're even worth anybody's time so maybe consider influence + aristocratic instead .

 

[Sandmann]

It's 20 provinces now, but yes it sucks that republics, which are a non-luck based government (comparatively anyway) require luck (low legitimacy heir or no heir) to switch into in addition to gimping your expansion intentionally, and that you still only have one non-European option.

Merchant republics don't get -LA now though so it's questionable if they're even worth anybody's time so maybe consider influence + aristocratic instead .

Influence + aristocratic for what? Sorry I dont get it

 

[Mikalos]

Merchant republics are a dying breed in this era, thats why becoming one isnt easy

 

[Sandmann]

Merchant republics are a dying breed in this era, thats why becoming one isnt easy

Yet it's to me the most fun government to play with great trading and trading posts construction.

 

[Mikalos]

Yet it's to me the most fun government to play with great trading and trading posts construction.

what you find fun doesnt mean we should compromise any form of historical reality for it in vanilla eu4

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Influence + aristocratic for what? Sorry I dont get it

These two allow you to switch into a noble republic by decision, the same way economic + trade allow a merchant republic.

 

[Sandmann]

what you find fun doesnt mean we should compromise any form of historical reality for it in vanilla eu4

I guess you are right but why the hardcap of 20 provinces? That is really annoying. What if 30 provinces were very spread out of the world? Wouldn't it be possible then tho it was more than 20?

 

[Mikalos]

I guess you are right but why the hardcap of 20 provinces? That is really annoying.

Because a challenge is good?

If that bothers you so much, edit a save, the reqs, or play as one of the existing MR's

 

[TheMeInTeam]

what you find fun doesnt mean we should compromise any form of historical reality for it in vanilla eu4

Tell that to the trash monarchy mechanic and the inability to do anything whatsoever from a player agency perspective to influence the quality of one's heir.

 

[Mikalos]

Tell that to the trash monarchy mechanic and the inability to do anything whatsoever from a player agency perspective to influence the quality of one's heir.

which i want to be part of the game.

 

[zodium]

Tell that to the trash monarchy mechanic and the inability to do anything whatsoever from a player agency perspective to influence the quality of one's heir.

Asserting that something is beyond behavioral control isn't equivalent to demonstrating that it's bad. You can't pick your cards in poker either, but that doesn't make poker a worse game than if you could. Games can easily benefit from forcing an element of playing the hand you're dealt on the player, not everything has to be within behavioral control.

 

[Pornek]

Start to annex vassal -> close to completion sell down to 20 provinces -> swap -> annex ?

 

[-Malovane-]

So boring that merchant republics are only for a very few states, if you wanna switch to a merchant republic you have to wait until 2 idea groups are completed before expanding beyond 20 provinces. How many would do that? 1% of the players? The sandbox is getting smaller and smaller for every patch.

*shrug* I went noble republic with Muscovy last night. Fed Novgorod to Pskov, Tver to Yaroslavl, and Kazan to Qasim (I should have just vassalized Kazan in retrospect) within the first 10 years. In the time it took to get to noble republic (relatively brief), I had fed Qasim all of Nogai, most of the Golden Horde, and some of Crimea. Not to mention grinding Lithuania/Poland into the ground. Expansion is doable, just have to be creative.

Why do it? Well.. Administrative + Plutocratic is actually quite good. The force-limit benefits alone are obscene, especially with additional modifiers from states like Muscovy. Each 25% of additional mercenaries add an additional 3x multiplier to your force limits. With the basic Russian region (Muscovy/Novgorod), you're talking 500k forcelimit possibility in a culturally and religiously homogenous zone that is easy to spam upgrades on.

I would have gone merchant (they can be a little more fun) - but wanted the aristocracy line in this particular game for the tech boost, and other handy modifiers.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Asserting that something is beyond behavioral control isn't equivalent to demonstrating that it's bad. You can't pick your cards in poker either, but that doesn't make poker a worse game than if you could. Games can easily benefit from forcing an element of playing the hand you're dealt on the player, not everything has to be within behavioral control.

Bah, I'm just expressing an opinion.

Poker benefits from not necessarily having to bet bad hands, and from incomplete information regarding those of your opponents. In EU IV there's no equivalent to not betting big on a bad hand or bluffing; we're not comparing apples to apples with that.

I do think introducing *some* agency/strategic consideration into monarch stat quality would improve the game, but it's not like it's possible for me to provide objective evidence that such is the case. Some people find almost 100% luck based games fun after all, but this *is* a strategy title and certainly monarchies have potential to have more strategy than they do right now without being overbearingly deterministic.

 

[Sandmann]

*shrug* I went noble republic with Muscovy last night. Fed Novgorod to Pskov, Tver to Yaroslavl, and Kazan to Qasim (I should have just vassalized Kazan in retrospect) within the first 10 years. In the time it took to get to noble republic (relatively brief), I had fed Qasim all of Nogai, most of the Golden Horde, and some of Crimea. Not to mention grinding Lithuania/Poland into the ground. Expansion is doable, just have to be creative.

Why do it? Well.. Administrative + Plutocratic is actually quite good. The force-limit benefits alone are obscene, especially with additional modifiers from states like Muscovy. Each 25% of additional mercenaries add an additional 3x multiplier to your force limits. With the basic Russian region (Muscovy/Novgorod), you're talking 500k forcelimit possibility in a culturally and religiously homogenous zone that is easy to spam upgrades on.

I would have gone merchant (they can be a little more fun) - but wanted the aristocracy line in this particular game for the tech boost, and other handy modifiers.

That's a good tip, there could be some expansion done with vassal feeding while staying at 19 provinces. The problem will be for a coloniser like Portugal but there you could create CN's while waiting to go merchant republic I guess.

 

[Incompetent]

Portugal as a Republic (Merchant or otherwise) is hilariously OP. It's probably a good thing that you have to work to get there.

 

[RobRoy3]

Yet it's to me the most fun government to play with great trading and trading posts construction.

You keep your Trading Posts, IIRC. My Merchant Republics always seem to end up as someone else, anyway: Netherlands, Prussia, Italy, Byzantium, or Russia. It just seems like they SHOULD grow up to be another government type, another tag, etc., if they're going to be a real country.

 

[balmung60]

Tell that to the trash monarchy mechanic and the inability to do anything whatsoever from a player agency perspective to influence the quality of one's heir.

Not entirely true. After all, you can do an awful lot to increase the odds of a male heir dying via generalship, allowing you to try to roll up a new heir.

What's much worse is regencies. Oh, your king fell down a flight of stairs and his third-cousin, twice-removed just had a child that he swears is a valid heir? Enjoy your 15 year regency (with stats rolled at 2d4-3) and ensuing non-existent legitimacy, since you can't just smother the brat and let a local (or foreign) noble take the throne and get back to normal affairs because, for no good reason, regents are incapable of declaring war.

Regencies suck all the fun out of everything for as long as they last.