Meme'd hard by the AI, WTT decisions and NF needs tweaking..

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Slavick3000

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Sounds like the main issue is using paratroopers to capitulate France. The purpose of the "Around Maginot" and "Schlieffen Once More" is to make it easier for Germany to cause France to capitulate. it is a reasonable assumption to make that if Germany caused France to capitulate, it is because it has an established line of attack into the French interior, either by breaching the Maginot Line, going through Belgium and/or the Netherlands/Switzerland, or achieving naval superiority and pulling off a naval invasion. After France has capitulated, there is no need for the focuses helping you do one of those things, so it makes sense that they are now invalid.
The Franco-British Union, notably, only happens after France has capitulated. In the course of a conventional (read: non-cheesy) German invasion of France, there is very little chance that the combined French and British forces then retake Metropolitan France until either several years' buildup, Germany being distracted by other enemies (such as the Soviets) or the United States joining the war. Any of those options would also necessitate an increase in World Tension that should allow even a non-aligned Germany to fabricate the necessary claims to invade Belgium should the Allies somehow manage to retake France, rebuild the Maginot line and get themselves entrenched along it once again.
From the game's perspective, what happened is that you were so good as to be able to invade France and cause it to capitulate without needing to go through Belgium, while at the same time being bad enough to let the Allies quickly recapture everything you've gained. In the vast majority of cases, those two things are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you've successfully invaded France, you can probably hold it long enough to allow you to deal with Belgium by the time that becomes necessary without help from focuses. And if you don't have enough forces to hold Metropolitan France against an Allied counter-attack in 1939, you certainly didn't have enough forces to take it in the first place.

So ultimately, the root of the problem is that you were able to cause France to capitulate without actually having military superiority in the area. Which suggests that the conditions for the French surrender need to be revisited.
 

Bratyn

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To conclude this, the game was fun but it needs some fixing...
To be specific:
- the "Schlieffen Once More" NF cannot be affected by the Franco-British nonsense.
- "Danzig for guaranties" NF needs to take circumstances into consideration (allying with GER, not the allies and not accept once puppeted by the USSR)
- a faction join modifier for Kaiser Germany
- leave the Franco-British nonsense for non-historical please...

Hope you enjoyed the memes, thanks for your time.

- "Schlieffen Once More" is now available in case of Franco-British Union.
- "Danzig for Guarantees" now bypasses in case of Poland already being at war (ergo guarantees are useless), or being puppeted by someone else than Germany, or not existing.
- Not sure what you mean here, unaligned nations only require 40% to join factions, and that is how it will remain.
- You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended :)

Glad you enjoyed the game despite the issues! I fixed the above now, so thank you for your feedback and I hope your next game will be less bug-prone :)
 
Last edited:

Alliegorical

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- "Schlieffen Once More" is now available in case of Franco-British Union.
- "Danzig for Guarantees" now bypasses in case of already being at war (ergo guarantees are useless), or being puppeted by someone else than Germany, or not existing.
- Not sure what you mean here, unaligned nations only require 40% to join factions, and that is how it will remain.
- You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended :)

Glad you enjoyed the game despite the issues! I fixed the above now, so thank you for your feedback and I hope your next game will be less bug-prone :)
giphy.webp
 

kozlovsky

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Actually, IIRC, UK and France did discuss a possibility of a Franco-British union to prevent France's capitulation in June 1940. It never materialized, but is not entirely fictional.
 

Telenil

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Not being able to do "around the Maginot" is also stupid. "Do they think they will be safe under a different flag" --> yes, because while this event text very directly states that "each citizen of one nation will gain it to the other" (strict implication that France still exists as a concept and has a government), the game just pretends UK full-annexed France and blocks the focus for no coherent reason whatsoever.
In strictly gameplay terms, that's exactly what it does. Britain annexes France and gains cores on their land, because the Union has to remain the leader of the Allies, stay at war with Germany, keep a coherent focus tree, retain its stockpile, etc. On all these technical aspects, it has to remain England.

The fix is to add England as an alternative "target" for the focus tree if the Union has happened, and I guess that's how it's going to be implemented.
 

TheMeInTeam

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In strictly gameplay terms, that's exactly what it does. Britain annexes France and gains cores on their land, because the Union has to remain the leader of the Allies, stay at war with Germany, keep a coherent focus tree, retain its stockpile, etc. On all these technical aspects, it has to remain England.

The fix is to add England as an alternative "target" for the focus tree if the Union has happened, and I guess that's how it's going to be implemented.

It's not *strictly* gameplay terms, because the UI is part of the game and the UI is not consistent with the game state in some places, leading to an outcome the game misleads the player from anticipating.
 

safe-keeper

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When did "meme" come to mean something weird or something one doesn't like? Just sounds weird and wrong to me.
 

Ivankovsky

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- "Schlieffen Once More" is now available in case of Franco-British Union.
- "Danzig for Guarantees" now bypasses in case of Poland already being at war (ergo guarantees are useless), or being puppeted by someone else than Germany, or not existing.
- Not sure what you mean here, unaligned nations only require 40% to join factions, and that is how it will remain.
- You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended :)

Glad you enjoyed the game despite the issues! I fixed the above now, so thank you for your feedback and I hope your next game will be less bug-prone :)

Thanks for the reply and for fixes!

To clarify the last two points:
- "Not sure what you mean here, unaligned nations only require 40% to join factions, and that is how it will remain."
I just found it weird that Poland being in a desperate war against USSR and wanting to join my faction for help (the UI said "they will accept") couldn't do so because of WT, but I guess that's why you gave us the "Danzig for Guarantees" NF and I didn't just take it in time, I can respect that.

- "You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended"
Touche, but I still find the instant 2 nation fusing a little dodgy, let me elaborate a little, France (or notFrance) no longer needs to worry about his stability and war support which were huge weakness of the nation, the fusion can trow of a German player by surprise who was planing around these weaknesses, of course I was also guilty of dodgy maneuvers with the paratroopers.. but the AI should be defending their capital against these cheesy paratroopers imo.
Moreover the nation fusing ahistorical event is a little out-of-scale comparing to returning the Kaiser to Germany, the war was going to pan out pretty much same way with Kaiser or not so I was a little confused why such a drastic change happened in this timeline.

Its not a huge deal though if this only happens with ahistorical NF (I though it could happen at random), and really the main issue for me was the NF locking which is now fixed, so thanks a lot again for the fixes!
 

DominusNovus

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When did "meme" come to mean something weird or something one doesn't like? Just sounds weird and wrong to me.

I mean, I hate memes, but this is really getting on my nerves, too. Granted, I'm part of a vibrant and long-established alternate history community, so we have a different term for wildly implausible alternate history (alien space bats), so it could just be tribalism. Then again, I have TV Tropes on my side.
 

Ivankovsky

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I'm blaming you for going ahistorical, then complaining that the AI does something you didn't expect, ruining your strategy.

No one forced you to go non-aligned. And going non-aligned has consequences. One of those consequences is that it changes the threshold for manual justification.

The Devs did not anticipate only forcing France to surrender with PARA while going non-aligned and the AI choosing to run Franco-British Union all at the same time. It's several things happening at the same time.

And you are being disingenuous again, first "my plan" was to follow the ahistorical Focus Tree counting on the bonuses that it would give me, like war goals around Manigot in case my paratrooper cheese didn't taste so well, what I was complaining about was getting locked of those NF bonuses because of non-nonsensical reason (France is now not really France so you shall not pass), the devs seem to agree with me in this regard because they fixed it.
Therefore, you were not blaming me for going non-aligned and not knowing the consequences, you were blaming me for choosing the non-aligned NF's and claiming I was unjustified in wanting its warranted bonuses.

And you know, this post was not meant to be taken so serious, in case my casual writing, use of CAPS in certain points and overuse (and misuse) of the word "memes" dint make it clear. I just wanted to show a silly game I had and highlight some issues in a light tone. You just decided to take everything out of proportion, make me look like I was whining and then picking up tiny pieces of my post to make disingenuous claims about me and being generally unhelpful.
 

balmung60

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Agreed. This is also yet-again inconsistent in the game. Not only is this impossible to do w/o NFs, but you *can* refuse Sudetenland as a puppet overlord. Why can you do that but not Bessarabia? Reasons.
I imagine that the reason you can't deny the Soviet demand for Bessarbia as the overlord of Romania is because the devs hadn't really considered it. Initially, the overlord of CZE couldn't deny the demand for the Sudetenland, but with DoD, the player becoming the overlord of CZE was relatively common and people pointed it out and the overlord veto was added. Meanwhile, puppeting Romania isn't so common, so it hadn't really come up.

Now, ideally the change made should be that the overlord always calls the shots on these territorial demands.
 

War_lord

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- You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended :)

Glad you enjoyed the game despite the issues! I fixed the above now, so thank you for your feedback and I hope your next game will be less bug-prone :)

Bratyn, I don't mean to be confrontational, but I've had one game as Japan on historical mode where the F-B Union formed, and three in a row where the Chinese United Front didn't form. Historical mode is currently prone to going off script for no reason. That's without bringing up things like Romania trying to join the GEECPS because the AI's logic can't handle multiple fascist factions existing.
 

a_sophist

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Bratyn, I don't mean to be confrontational, but I've had one game as Japan on historical mode where the F-B Union formed, and three in a row where the Chinese United Front didn't form. Historical mode is currently prone to going off script for no reason. That's without bringing up things like Romania trying to join the GEECPS because the AI's logic can't handle multiple fascist factions existing.
Are you using the latest beta? It's been better for me, though of course small sample size and all that.
 

Bratyn

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Thanks for the reply and for fixes!

To clarify the last two points:
- "Not sure what you mean here, unaligned nations only require 40% to join factions, and that is how it will remain."
I just found it weird that Poland being in a desperate war against USSR and wanting to join my faction for help (the UI said "they will accept") couldn't do so because of WT, but I guess that's why you gave us the "Danzig for Guarantees" NF and I didn't just take it in time, I can respect that.

We'll take the feedback under consideration. Content Designers have proposed making changes to certain ideologies (namely monarchism), but no decision on this has as of yet been made, and unless this happens it's unlikely the WT requirements will change.

- "You just went non-historical with Germany in a 'historical' game, and you complain about other nations doing the same? I'm sorry, but that is working as intended"
Touche, but I still find the instant 2 nation fusing a little dodgy, let me elaborate a little, France (or notFrance) no longer needs to worry about his stability and war support which were huge weakness of the nation, the fusion can trow of a German player by surprise who was planing around these weaknesses, of course I was also guilty of dodgy maneuvers with the paratroopers.. but the AI should be defending their capital against these cheesy paratroopers imo.
Moreover the nation fusing ahistorical event is a little out-of-scale comparing to returning the Kaiser to Germany, the war was going to pan out pretty much same way with Kaiser or not so I was a little confused why such a drastic change happened in this timeline.

Its not a huge deal though if this only happens with ahistorical NF (I though it could happen at random), and really the main issue for me was the NF locking which is now fixed, so thanks a lot again for the fixes!

Even on historical mode there is still a 5% or so chance of the Franco-British union happening. This is because the proposal was actually intensively discussed at the time, and only at the last moment fell apart. It is alternate history, but it's so close to what actually happened that it did not feel right to outright make it never occur. There has been talk of adding more options for historicity (NOT saying we are working on this or have decided to implement this, but we are aware of people wanting it and it has been discussed in the team), and if this got implemented this would make for a good candidate to differentiate between 'things as they actually happened' and 'things that were very likely to happen but didn't'. Until then it'll remain as it is.

I'm glad I could fix your major gripes, though. Thanks for pointing them out to us! I hope we'll bring the game closer to what you'd like it to be with future updates :)
 

Andrzej2

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When Empire of Austria-Hungary forms after taking focus imperial sentiments it doesn't bring Habsburgs back. They are ruled by asutria chancellor like before. I think that this situation of recreating Austria-Hungary should always be connected with Habsburg restoration.
 
Last edited:

Vohen

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Bratyn, I don't mean to be confrontational, but I've had one game as Japan on historical mode where the F-B Union formed, and three in a row where the Chinese United Front didn't form. Historical mode is currently prone to going off script for no reason. That's without bringing up things like Romania trying to join the GEECPS because the AI's logic can't handle multiple fascist factions existing.
Indeed, I just had a Soviet game with historical on (and played historically myself) where Germany invaded Switzerland, and declared war on me in mid 1940, not no mention Bulgaria joining the Japanese faction.
I have no idea on what caused it, so there might be something going on with historical focus there.
 

Wasted Shampoo

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Actually, IIRC, UK and France did discuss a possibility of a Franco-British union to prevent France's capitulation in June 1940. It never materialized, but is not entirely fictional.
and @Bratyn

But it didn’t happen. Sometimes would be nice to see a real historical event happening and not only and exclusively what it didn’t.

Also all the times you people write stuff such as: it’s not entirely fictional - it could’ve happened - there was a plan, is just to justify (I don’t see why though) the nonsense that we have to deal with every time we play.