[Megathread] Warfare Discussion

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The Goldfinch

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Current system has a lot o disastrous flaws that need to be fixed, mostly horrible information delivery in warfare. I have no idea what's going on. Why is the battle 7 vs 9 and not 45 vs 51? Why I cannot switch generals or merge armies? Why I have to do clicking feast before finding out that my troops lack equipment? Why having 93 advantage score on the frontline means literally nothing and you can lose all the battles anyway? Why only one battle can be fought at a time on a frontline of 2000 kilometers? So many horrible flaws making warfare my most hated part of the game.

They don't need to institute micro, just fix this ridiculous mess.
 
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Silens

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Why only one battle can be fought at a time on a frontline of 2000 kilometers?

Same for navies. If you have 6 fleets, each 100 ships, defending a coast from invasions, and two fleets, each 10 strong, land at the same time, the first fleet will be engaged by your defenders, the second one can land unimpeded. Why? Because only one battle can be fought at the same time at one place. So 100 ships are occupied with 10, and the other 500 watch as the second fleet invades.

That's crazy.
 
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Nnorm

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They said in the last DD that patch 1.2 (next year) should include changes on warfare and diplomacy.
But if by "complete rework" you mean bringing micro and little units, then it's highly unlikely you'll ever get that

What changes? What will they introduce and why should it be enough for me?
 
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Lucododosor

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What changes? What will they introduce and why should it be enough for me?

They haven't gone into specifics yet

edit: they did post this on the Post-Release DD tho

1668256651488.png
 
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jonatron5

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After a mixed release with some 38% of all reviews being negative and the warfare system as implemented being nearly universally panned.


Is anyone willing to admit this might be a fundamental flaw design? Or that the devs may legitimately be out of touch with what the community enjoys?
 
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PedroLuiz

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After a mixed release with some 38% of all reviews being negative and the warfare system as implemented being nearly universally panned.


Is anyone willing to admit this might be a fundamental flaw design? Or that the devs may legitimately be out of touch with what the community enjoys?
No, most people don't care enough to leave a review
 
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Don_Quigleone

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There's a vocal minority of people who are salty about it.

The real metric that the devs will care about is peak player numbers, and on that front, Victoria 3 is doing very well, and has maintained good numbers.

However, plenty of players would agree that the fundamentals of the system are sound, but the implementation is janky and opaque, so I'd expect there to be improvements. That doesn't mean they're bringing back stacks.
 
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BPZ1941

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No, because I like the new war system. It definitely has problems and is a bit too hands-off at times, but those are things for patches, not fundamental flaws. I'm roughly a hundred hours in, and while a lot of things do royally piss me off or cause me to quit games in progress, the war system is rarely what I think about aside from the microfronts generated when you fight in pre-unification Germany.
 
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jonatron5

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No, because I like the new war system. It definitely has problems and is a bit too hands-off at times, but those are things for patches, not fundamental flaws. I'm roughly a hundred hours in, and while a lot of things do royally piss me off or cause me to quit games in progress, the war system is rarely what I think about aside from the microfronts generated when you fight in pre-unification Germany.
I'm with you a little bit.

But I can honestly say after many playthroughs with many wars. All warfare kinda boils down to a coinflip.

Sometimes I do well and win, and sometimes I dont.
 
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CrispyWalrus

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So... extremely frustrated at this point and wanting to rant. I'll add to and bump this thread to keep the war issues forefront of any issues right now as it seems to me the most broken and important needing fixes asap!

After playing more than a few bigger countries I'm having new fun picking out some small state and going for it. I chose Brunei because I can vaguely recall hearing the name Sultan of Brunei somewhere and thinking vast wealth and a trade economy... Idk lol.

Brunei starts as a single split state. So my first goals were to get all the pieces of my split state. I started with Sulu Borneo. The diplomatic play was rough when I could only sway Mindanao to my side and the Netherlands joined with Sulu. The only thing that saved me I think was travel time. I only had like 4 units in my army but Sulu had only 2 iirc. Game said that 20 Netherland units would be at the front in 47 days. Until then I had a great advantage and luckily I overran Sulu before they could arrive and there was no more front.

So I guess Netherlands must have gotten turned around? You would think they would have continued on and landed at their minion Dutch East Indies but Idk. Meanwhile occupying Sulu I bided my time and kept an eye on the war support meter. Well Netherlands decides to do a naval invasion after they get turned about again and I've still got nothing for navy yet. They land with their troops and are quickly painting the map of my single state with their flag. Perhaps they should have addressed my occupation of Sulu first though as they weren't quite able to occupy all of North Borneo before Sulu capitulated which left Netherlands with little stake in the war anymore. After a few more weeks we did white peace.

All in all from the diplo play to the war this was fun. The play was a nail biter as some can be and then a challenge with a MP in the war. Success was all the sweeter! Anyway on to my rant though lol.

So a couple years go by and I recover from the devastation of the Netherland occupation. I'm adding a level to my barracks and I now have line infantry and arms and artillery import routes. Things are looking good so I decide to pick up the next or last bit of my split state North Borneo and make a play for Bulungan North Borneo.

It was even more fun and a nailbiter as I watched Netherlands, Dutch East Indies, and France all leaning towards Bulunga watching my play as I quickly began trying to improve relations with all of the three. Locally I gained an ally while Bulunga picked up Sintang and Buton on their side. I was anxiously watching through the diplomatic maneuvers until the final countdown. None of the big powers joined and the diplo play overview or whatever had me cocky or confident and Bulunga worried. Fronts were established at the Borneo/Bulungan border and that between Sambas and Borneo. They had 2 units at each front while I had 4 units under a single general. (Really I wanted to be able to hire a second and split the 4 but anyway...)

So the nailbiting passed. I was ecstatic that no big foreign power was going to weigh into my little local conflict. My opponent was scared. I figured they should be as I checked out their barracks and they're still fielding irregular infantry alone (Infantry Focus Artillery selection) while I'm sending out line infantry and cannon artillery. Should be easier than the last war by far I thought.

Well I'd advance a front with about a 60 advantage and was advancing very slowly for having such technological and numbers advantage. Meanwhile whichever front I couldn't put troops at was rapidly losing land to their irregulars. I was working the Bulunga front thinking as my primary wargoal I needed to occupy it asap. I'd painted half of Bulunga with my flag but lost half of my North Borneo to their flag from that Sambas front. So at that point I figure what of Bulunga I'd taken would hold a while as I pushed back on that occupation on the Sambas front.

Instead though again with the game telling me I have an advantage and I see that in numbers and technolgy fielded, somehow my Bulungan occupation is quickly nullified and I'm in the middle of North Borneo with 2 irregular units to either side and my 4 line infantry and artillery in the middle. I'm quickly overrun somehow and the front disappears!

So anger is growing. I mean I get RNG and sometimes you'll get those bad rolls but overall if you have numerical technologic advantage you should expect overall to be successful. But I'll even concede to an RNG barrage that some how had these irregulars (I mean without arms what are they using-- I'd think peasants with whatever they could grab to fight with against my line)... but where is the front now?

I'm still sitting here with my 4 units still "Standing by at Indonesia HQ" when I look at my military screen. I can click on advance or defend a front but in both cases the list is empty?

Okay problems:

1.) Where is the front now? With no front I can't click on it to see the list of battles, so I can't even review to see how I lost.

2.) I've still got my units? If so again front? (Morale is hurting for two of the three regular line troops, but there's still one raring to go at 100% morale along with the line conscript unit.)

20221112153700_1.jpg


3.) What is up with war support? I think occupation is weighed much too heavily than casualty. I mean other than their incredible occupation against my numerical and technological advantage if I look at the war screen I'm only about half their deaths and seeing much- less wounded. My costs are greater but with arms and artillery that's to be expected.

20221112153615_1.jpg


And then when I try desperately to get more information it seems buggy. Like this tooltip where I'm trying to figure out war support why:

20221112154449_1.jpg


Looking at this "helpful" tooltip I'm even more confused...

-9.73 because I'm 97.3% occupied? If it's not 100% there where's the dang front?

-2.00 because they control 100% of their wargoal? How so? The only wargoal they have is reparations from me if they win.

-.19 because I've taken 2k casualties? I've not. I can plainly see I've only 991 dead. (And when I hover over their war support they have a line -.22 because they have taken 1K casualties, but look again it says they've had 1.76k die.

So anyway I'm a bit perturbed at this game at the moment. I think the war support calculations are broken besides weighted improperly. Fronts are fun but wtf? Where is mine?

It's not game over as I'm only looking at reparations and not even humiliation, but what was a fun game is a lot less so due to lack of information and conflicting information and no information.

Really I want to know how I lost so soundly given my seeming advantages. At this point the game is telling me I've still troops, am not yet 100% occupied but without anyway to battle, i.e. where's the front; there is nothing I can do besides wait for war support to exhaust or else simply concede. This is the definition of frustrating!
 
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