Megathread : Nations That Should Be In Victoria 2

[Phalanxia]

Sure, unrecognised nations that existed for a few weeks would be great fun to play, and maybe the odd event chain could lead up to the creation of states, but Victoria has the potential to take that kind of thing to the next level. Things like a Pan-Arab state are exactly kind of thing which should be included; dreams and ideas that had a chance, yet were crushed by imperialist powers. For example, if Finland came to be independent in game, maybe it could gain cores or a mission to liberate their Estonian cousin's across the Gulf of Finland, and create a Sumoi-Estonian-Karelian Federalised State. Was there ever such a movement? I have no idea (My grasp on provincial 19th Century Imperial Russian Politics is somewhat fuzzy.), but it seems plausible enough to be included in a game that is all about making your own history.

Others such as Greater Austria look interesting (I'm aware that posting links to Wikipedia will probably attract derision in a place like this, but it's a good article), as purely judging from the article, it looks like that had not Franz Ferdinand been shot than this plan might have been implemented. A potential event chain perhaps?

 

[JoeGiavani]

Others such as Greater Austria look interesting (I'm aware that posting links to Wikipedia will probably attract derision in a place like this, but it's a good article), as purely judging from the article, it looks like that had not Franz Ferdinand been shot than this plan might have been implemented. A potential event chain perhaps?

How is "Greater Austria" different to the Austro-Hungarian Empire? They look the exact same, apart from the exclusion of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Wasn't there a plan at one stage for a Balkan federation?

 

[Stauffenberg13]

Things like a Pan-Arab state are exactly kind of thing which should be included; dreams and ideas that had a chance, yet were crushed by imperialist powers.

Well, it would itself have been kind of imperialist, because it would have included many ethnic and religious minorities that would not have enjoyed being under Arab Sunni rule. So, it was probably for the better that it never came to be. I think it should definitely be in the game though.

 

[Orinsul]

For a Pan-Arab state theres the Caliphate [anyone know how to spell it?] the Turks and the Egyptians and even the persians come out every century or so and try to convince everyone that it still exists and in fact their it. Although its formation should cause events in european nations of a Embargo or Threaten with war or get militancy +1 as the christian world was still terrified of an arab resurgence and if the moslems united some manner of crusade would be called for by the populace although its unlikely any governments but the austrians would have listened.

 

[Peekee]

Is England a hypothetical nation?

 

[JoeGiavani]

Is England a hypothetical nation?

In this time period, yes. It was weird that Ireland, Scotland and Wales were in Vicky 1, but not England.

 

[Orinsul]

Additionally in the later years there for a game which has gone fantasically youre way the calls for a Europe as a Nation state might well be answered and many break away states, austria or germany can be broken easily enough but to sunder a defeated france [the old kingdoms], america [into states] or russia into tiny peices never to be a signifigant threat would be brilliant and the african empires as well. To shatter the world and leave it as a thousand tiny states trying to gain their feet in the post-imperial chaos.

Wales wasnt in victoria, i looked for it lots and it never was. maybe revolutions i haven't checked, but not victoria.

 

[Peekee]

Also were there not various bits of the USA that nearly claimed independence/secession, e.g. :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Convention

That is a bit early for the time scale but I don't think it would be totally unthinkable for some states to become independent republics in the course of the game.

 

[Stauffenberg13]

For a Pan-Arab state theres the Caliphate [anyone know how to spell it?] the Turks and the Egyptians and even the persians come out every century or so and try to convince everyone that it still exists and in fact their it. Although its formation should cause events in european nations of a Embargo or Threaten with war or get militancy +1 as the christian world was still terrified of an arab resurgence and if the moslems united some manner of crusade would be called for by the populace although its unlikely any governments but the austrians would have listened.

But the Caliphate (which already existed, but under Ottoman control) is not exclusively Arab (like you said, it would include Turks and Persians, among others), and it's religious. During the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries there was an idea for a secular Arab Nationalism. One of the most prominent writers championing the idea (Michel 'Aflaq) was an Orthodox Christian.

Also, the Europeans for most of the time covered by Victoria were not necessarily against Arab Nationalism. The Brittish were very actively supporting the idea for a long time before the Ottoman Empire fell.

 

[Vanguard44]

This game NEEDS the Kingdom of Sarawak.

 

[Orinsul]

Christendom did mind if they swung the arabs together but if the moslems did it for themselves and certainly if it wasnt a secular one theres no way theyd sit on their hands. The attitudes now mostly only remembered though Belloc where very popular in the half a century before him.
and as for america, if enough things went the wrong way in the C19th there was still enough decentralisation that itd be easier to fall in seperate countries than anything else so individual states would go better with the age than multiple confederations and breaking the damn thing up would prevent them from being such a trouble late in the game.

 

[Bonkajs]

many new countries was born after ww1 in times of russian revolution and are forgotten now by many:
Idel-Ural (tatar state in the mountains of ural); 1917-1919,
Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic; 1918,
Siberian republic (under russian white movement leader Kolchak); 1917-1920,
The Republic of North Ingria; 1919-1920,
Green Ukraine (in russian far east); 1917-1922,
United Baltic Duchy (german Baltics - Estonia and Latvia without eastern part - Latgale); 1918,

also i think possibility to create independent east prussia must be added after ww1.

.. and many, many more coutries around the world!

 

[Lord Saladin]

In this time period, yes. It was weird that Ireland, Scotland and Wales were in Vicky 1, but not England.

I agree. If the others all went, it would make sense for the UK to disappear and England to take it's place. It's entirely possible, if given an earlier pan Celtic movement, plus war/conquest forcing it to occur, although a unified British culture up until that point would be in line with the timeline, with the population converting to the dominant culture (eg. British pops converting to English pops) to represent that.

 

[Cinéad IV]

This game NEEDS the Kingdom of Sarawak.

It's in VIP

 

[Phalanxia]

How is "Greater Austria" different to the Austro-Hungarian Empire? They look the exact same, apart from the exclusion of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

FTA(My bold):

"The United States of Greater Austria (German: Vereinigte Staaten von Groß-Österreich) was an idea created by a group of scholars surrounding the Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand that never came to pass. This specific proposal was conceived by Aurel Popovici in 1906.

As the twentieth century started to unfold, the greatest problem facing the dual monarchy of Austria-Hungary was that it consisted of eleven distinctly different ethnic groupings, of which only two, the Germans and Hungarians (who together accounted for about 44% of the total population) wielded any power or control. The other eight groupings (Czechs, Poles, Ruthenians, Romanians, Slovaks, Serbs, Slovenians and Italians) hardly wielded any power at all, only the Croats had limited autonomy in the Kingdom of Croatia. The idea of the Dual Monarchy system of 1867 had been to split the ancient Austrian Empire into two realms, one German-dominated, the other Hungarian-dominated. However, after various demonstrations, uprisings and acts of terrorism, it became readily apparent that the notion of two ethnic groups dominating the other nine could not realistically survive in perpetuam."

What was proposed was a democratic Federalised Austro-Hungary: Maybe this could be included via event, with decreased militancy for Non national Pops, maybe make a cultures into national cultures, perhaps the changing from an Absolute Monarchy to a Constitutional. Here's a map of what the United States of Austria (Wow) would have looked like. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Greater_austria_ethnic.svg (It's SVG, so you'll need to view it something other than IE)

Besides, that's not what my post was about. I was saying that it would be a lot more interesting to be discussing nations that didn't make it as real entities for one reason or another (Such as Scandinavia, or a Pan Arab State [Perhaps triggered in part by Egypt winning the Second Oriental Crisis?]), but within the bounds of reality. I'm guessing other possibilities could be the Sepoy War being successful and India declaring Independence, with a list of various events such as the partition, whether to include Muslim Bengal in that partition, whether the Indian minors/Burma/Nepal will join the Indian nation state, or risk an Operation Polo...I'm just throwing ideas around, and I'm sure there's much more likely "What if's" then what I have suggested, but hopefully you now understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Dustermaker]

There have been a lot of cool ideas so far, I will list a few that I would like to see "possible". Some are from other lists.

a United States of South America
a Gran Columbia country
a large Western South American country(chile, peru, and bolivia) maybe have equador a core of both the western one and gran columbia.
a United States of North America
an Australia/New Zealand combo/oceania type country
maybe make a different country for England to turn into if it has some type of big revolution so they get cores on the USA again.
a United Kingdom of Portugal with it's colonies
a United Iberian country
a United Kingdom of France if they would have a revolution and they could get cores on the Louisiana purchase again.
a Hapsburg Empire, with the possibilities to have different Empires from large countries. No idea what they would be called but if somehow(not even remotely likely but it is just an example) France and Germany, Italy and France, Germany and Italy, Germany and Austria...etc. were united from conquest, marrage etc.
a Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia country similar to Scandinavia
a United Baltic Republic with Scandinavia and the baltic regions as well.
a Byzantine Empire
a huge Alexander type Greek empire, but this would probably fall under the byz emp.
Scandinavia
United States of Africa
United States of North/South/East/West/Central Africa if tribes were to make one of these then they could civilize etc.
a United Arab state
a European Super state that a warmongering country could try to make
Any country that exists today
a Roman Empire would be cool
a Mongolian super state
Golden Horde
Teutonic Order and other crusading Orders would be fun to create from conquests if you have a Christian religion, they would be more apt to attack a type of religion/nationallity. So you could have a religion tolerance slider.

Every nationallity should have a possible country to create, and be drawn to it by immigration once it is created.

You could be asked to form the country when you have the reqs or if you have a revolt and can't control it, then the revolters could form the country if they have the provinces.

Most of these countries are FAR fetched, but it would be amazingly fun to try and create one of these countries and dominate the world with them.

 

[unmerged(79089)]

There have been a lot of cool ideas so far, I will list a few that I would like to see "possible". Some are from other lists.

a United States of South America
a Gran Columbia country
a large Western South American country(chile, peru, and bolivia) maybe have equador a core of both the western one and gran columbia.
a United States of North America
an Australia/New Zealand combo/oceania type country
maybe make a different country for England to turn into if it has some type of big revolution so they get cores on the USA again.
a United Kingdom of Portugal with it's colonies
a United Iberian country
a United Kingdom of France if they would have a revolution and they could get cores on the Louisiana purchase again.
a Hapsburg Empire, with the possibilities to have different Empires from large countries. No idea what they would be called but if somehow(not even remotely likely but it is just an example) France and Germany, Italy and France, Germany and Italy, Germany and Austria...etc. were united from conquest, marrage etc.
a Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia country similar to Scandinavia
a United Baltic Republic with Scandinavia and the baltic regions as well.
a Byzantine Empire
a huge Alexander type Greek empire, but this would probably fall under the byz emp.
Scandinavia
United States of Africa
United States of North/South/East/West/Central Africa if tribes were to make one of these then they could civilize etc.
a United Arab state
a European Super state that a warmongering country could try to make
Any country that exists today
a Roman Empire would be cool
a Mongolian super state
Golden Horde
Teutonic Order and other crusading Orders would be fun to create from conquests if you have a Christian religion, they would be more apt to attack a type of religion/nationallity. So you could have a religion tolerance slider.

Every nationallity should have a possible country to create, and be drawn to it by immigration once it is created.

You could be asked to form the country when you have the reqs or if you have a revolt and can't control it, then the revolters could form the country if they have the provinces.

Most of these countries are FAR fetched, but it would be amazingly fun to try and create one of these countries and dominate the world with them.

every line gets more and more far fetched

 

[Tunch Khan]

Ottoman Dual Monarchy (Turk-Arab): There were several societies and a political party, Decentralization Party aimed for achieving this purpose.

al-Qahtaniya and al-Ahd; the former sought to establish a dual Arab - Turkish monarchy similar to the Austro - Hungarian Empire.

Al-Ahd (literally, The Covenant) was headed by Aziz Ali al-Masri, an Egyptian officer. There is very little information on the society and how it was formed; it is significant, however, that it was formed after the Ottoman Empire started losing territories to the West. Apparently, member Arab officers were fearful that the Arab Ottoman Asiatic provinces were about to face a destiny similar to that of Tunisia or the Balkans. The Arab officers may have had some grievances also against the ruling government of the Committee for Union and Progress (CUP). While al-Ahd called for Arab autonomy within a federated Ottoman state, it also spoke of Arab - Turkish cooperation to defend the East from the West and insisted on keeping the Islamic caliphate (religious leadership) under Ottoman control.

The most prominent members of al-Ahd were: Taha al-Hashimi, Yasin al-Hashimi, Nuri al-Saʿid, Mawlud Mukhlis, Ali Jawdat al-Ayyubi, Jamil Madfaʿi, Abdallah al-Dulimi, Tahsin Ali, Muhammad Hilmi, Ali Rida al-Ghazali, Muwafaq Kamil, Abd al-Ghafur al-Badri (Iraqis); Salim al-Jazairi, Awni Qadamani, Muhammad Bek Ismail, Mustafa Wasfi, Yahya Kazim Abu al-Khair, Muhi al-Din alJabban, Ali al-Nashashibi, and Amin Lufti al-Hafiz (Syrians).

According to some sources, the society had some local branches. The Mosul branch in northern Iraq was said to have been led by Yasin alHashimi and included Mawlud Mukhlis, Ali Jawdat, Abd al-Rahman Sharaf, Abdullah al-Dulymi, Sharif al-Faruqi, Majid Hassun (Iraqis), and Tawfiq alMahmud, Hassan Fahmi, Sadiq al-Jundi, and Mukhtar al-Tarabulsi (Syrians).

 

[Orinsul]

Alot of these seem to be Flag Changes not new Nations.
But as for theorectiacal states, Louis Napoleons reshaping of europe along Nationalist lines if he wins his grand game against the germans.
definetly Wales and a Rhinelander state and Brandenburg as more than like a release state peace condition will be included so itd be nice to take germany from the prussians. A Pan-Celtic state is out of the question but an event series to secure each their independance and intial alliances would be the way to go in my opinion and certainly more nations for russia to break in to.