Megathread : Nations That Should Be In Victoria 2

[Slaughter]

What about some separationist states for Brazil?
Lemme see:

Gran Pará (Northern Brazil + parts of Maranhão), Federation of the Equator (Northeast Brazil), Republica Rio-Grandense (Rio Grande do Sul, may end up taking the rest of the Brazilian south) and Republica Catarinense (may end fusing with the previous one).

 

[jamhaw]

I would like it if Lower California or Occitania were included.

 

[unmerged(57561)]

Mexico needs Texas, California, Rio Grande, and Yucatan as all were revolters.

U.S. needs confederacy, New England(for pro slavery civil war), Deseret.

There are a bunch of Brazilian ones here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_Brazil

Uruguay had a Red vs. White Civil War

Dominican Republic

China has Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, Pingnan Guo, Nien, Hui, Republic of China, Korea

Panama

 

[jamhaw]

A Cossack state would be very nice as well.

Mexico needs Texas, California, Rio Grande, and Yucatan as all were revolters.

U.S. needs confederacy, New England(for pro slavery civil war), Deseret.

There are a bunch of Brazilian ones here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_Brazil

Uruguay had a Red vs. White Civil War

Dominican Republic

China has Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, Pingnan Guo, Nien, Hui, Republic of China, Korea

Panama

I think that the CSA, Panama and Texas are pretty much assured. I cannot see them making the game without them.

 

[Garak]

About as realistic as what Tunch posted. Go ahead, is all I can say - but in your own mod. Paradox should really focus on basic setup and that's that. The rest of the time ought to be spent on AI-coding

Actually, the Russians had this idea for some time of resurrecting the Eastern Roman Empire after knocking out the Ottomans. They just never quite got that far. (Although they were able to force the Ottomans to sign a treaty giving Russia the right to intervene on behalf of Christians in the Ottoman Empire.)

Someone mentioned there should be no Arab Christians in mesopotamia in the 1800s. Why not? There are still Arab Christians there to this day. Were they not there in the 19th century? (Not really my area, per se.)

In theory, I think all the American states should be in as possible revolters, as they were far more autonomous back then, to the point where the United States was actually used as plural (as in, "the United States are", whereas today we say "the United States is"). This only faded from use after the Civil War, when the relationship between the states and the federal government in Washington began to change pretty dramatically.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Someone mentioned there should be no Arab Christians in mesopotamia in the 1800s. Why not? There are still Arab Christians there to this day. Were they not there in the 19th century? (Not really my area, per se.)

I think what he meant was they should also distinguish Middle Eastern Christians ethnically by adding in Assyrian culture etc.

 

[unmerged(136543)]

Napoleon gives Finland indepedence to Finland in 1812 ?

 

[unmerged(59077)]

Actually, the Russians had this idea for some time of resurrecting the Eastern Roman Empire after knocking out the Ottomans. They just never quite got that far. (Although they were able to force the Ottomans to sign a treaty giving Russia the right to intervene on behalf of Christians in the Ottoman Empire.)

Haha, yeah, sure.

New Byzantium, with Konstantin Alexandrovich on the throne. Why not. Easy to mod in.

Someone mentioned there should be no Arab Christians in mesopotamia in the 1800s. Why not? There are still Arab Christians there to this day. Were they not there in the 19th century? (Not really my area, per se.)

I think the key here is Mesopotamia. The vast majority of Christians there are Assyrian. They're Syriac-speaking.

There's plenty of Orthodox (and Jacobite and Maronite) Arabs in Syria, Lebannon and Palestine, however, and of course also there are the Copts in Egypt.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

As I understand the original Victoria had a RUT (Ruthenia) tag but there was never a country for it. Would be sweet to see a Ruthenia in Victoria 2 based in the Carpathians.

 

[Orinsul]

Actually, the Russians had this idea for some time of resurrecting the Eastern Roman Empire after knocking out the Ottomans. They just never quite got that far. (Although they were able to force the Ottomans to sign a treaty giving Russia the right to intervene on behalf of Christians in the Ottoman Empire.)

Someone mentioned there should be no Arab Christians in mesopotamia in the 1800s. Why not? There are still Arab Christians there to this day. Were they not there in the 19th century? (Not really my area, per se.)

In theory, I think all the American states should be in as possible revolters, as they were far more autonomous back then, to the point where the United States was actually used as plural (as in, "the United States are", whereas today we say "the United States is"). This only faded from use after the Civil War, when the relationship between the states and the federal government in Washington began to change pretty dramatically.

Russia already resurrected the Roman Empire before the start of the time period. Thats why the king is called the Czar because Russia had declared itself the thrid Roman Empire, this isnt a tag change but a bit of propaganda and patriotism.

 

[unmerged(59077)]

Russia already resurrected the Roman Empire before the start of the time period. Thats why the king is called the Czar because Russia had declared itself the thrid Roman Empire, this isnt a tag change but a bit of propaganda and patriotism.

AFAIK there was a semi-serious plan by Ekaterine II to put one of her own on the throne in Constantinople (as head of a neo-"Roman" state) but the British stepped in as usual.

Not enough to warrant inclusion as usual.

 

[unmerged(128057)]

:::scratches head::: Ummm I cant really think Enver Pasha thought of having aid of Japan. As far as my knowledge of turanism goes (which seems far inferior to yours considering your other posts btw) Turanism got to do with uniting Turkic tribes around Asia. Something Prime Minister Turgut Ozal had in mind after Glasnost of USSR in early 1990ies.

Well in game terms, I really enjoy `unified` empires, though i know its rather unrealistic considering the rising nationalism of the era.

The idea was pretty strong in Hungary and Japan during the interwar period and WWII. Check out the contemporary Hungarian website for additional info.

The Turanian National Alliance was founded in Japan in 1921 and the Japanese Turanian Society in the early 1930s. On the other hand, there used to be such ones as Turanian Society (1910) and Turanian Alliance of Hungary (around 1920) in Hungary.

"Japanese language belongs to Turanian (Ural-Altaic) ones. (Turanian is to Ural-Altaic as Aryan is to Indo-European). Though the word "Turanian" originaly means one of the families of language, it has also started to be used as a racial term especially in Hungary and Japan during the 1920-30's with the racial term "Turanid". Turanian Identity of those days was based on the theory that Turanian peoples had some cultural or racial relationships.

According to Turanism, that is the reason why Japanese language has grammatically something in common with Hungarian one. Hungarian and Japanese Turanists maintained that the forefathers of the Japanese had originated in the Euro-Asian region and ressetled in the main island of Japan.

In Japan, there used to be such Turanist organisations as "Turan Minzoku Domei" (Alliance of Turanian People, 1921), "Nippon Turan Kyokai" (Turanian Society of Japan, early 1930's), and Nikko Bunka Kyokai (Japanese-Hungarian Cultural Association, 1938).

Anyway, the characteristics of Turanians is in that they perceive their native languages in their right brain. Most of the languages in the world are perceived in the left brain. However, Japanese language is so peculiar that Japanese people perceive it in their right brain. Turanism is a part of Eurasianism.



Those events could only be the end part of a long chain events, which I doubt would lead to the same result each time. There are so many independent parameters involved.

Not any more. No such law exist anymore.

 

[rjf101]

"Japanese language belongs to Turanian (Ural-Altaic) ones. (Turanian is to Ural-Altaic as Aryan is to Indo-European). Though the word "Turanian" originaly means one of the families of language, it has also started to be used as a racial term especially in Hungary and Japan during the 1920-30's with the racial term "Turanid". Turanian Identity of those days was based on the theory that Turanian peoples had some cultural or racial relationships.

The Japanese and Turks are related? Japan has alot more in common with China, since that is where the first Japanese civilization borrowed heavily from. The Japanese language is very much influenced by Chinese, and has not a hint of Turkic in it. And there's no way Hungarians and Japanese are related. I know Hungarians supposedly have "Asiatic" origins but they're not that Asian :wacko:.

 

[Stauffenberg13]

Someone mentioned there should be no Arab Christians in mesopotamia in the 1800s. Why not? There are still Arab Christians there to this day. Were they not there in the 19th century? (Not really my area, per se.)

Nope, the Christians in Iraq today are Chaldeans, Assyrians, Syriacs, and Armenians. That's listed from largest to smallest group. The original language of the first two is the East Syriac dialect of Aramaic (with some small dialect differences between the two groups), the language of the 'Syriacs' is the West Syriac dialect of Aramaic, and the Armenians (a very tiny group in Iraq) of course speak Armenian.

Nowadays, pretty much all of the above speak Arabic alongside their own language, and some only speak Arabic. But actual ethnically Arabic Christians don't live in Mesopotamia at all, neither in the 19th century nor today.

To be correct, the game should make the culture of all christian pops in Mesopotamia that are not Armenian (including northern Mesopotamia in what is now eastern Turkey, and also in some other areas like around Antioch, where EU2 actually got it right by having that province's culture be "Syrian") be "Syriac".

It might even make sense to make some Christians in Lebanon "Syriac" since many Maronite Christian villages up in the high mountains didn't completely drop the old language (they spoke "West Syriac", which is still used to an extent by their church today) until the very end of the 19th century.

 

[unmerged(96639)]

The Japanese and Turks are related? Japan has alot more in common with China, since that is where the first Japanese civilization borrowed heavily from. The Japanese language is very much influenced by Chinese, and has not a hint of Turkic in it. And there's no way Hungarians and Japanese are related. I know Hungarians supposedly have "Asiatic" origins but they're not that Asian :wacko:.

There's no such thing as an Aryan race, but it didn't stop a lot of crackpot pseudoscientific theories from developing. Although, I would say the movement is too historically insignificant and too late in the game's timeframe to be included seriously. Nothing stopping some determined modder to do a counterfactual Turanian Empire mod once the game is out.

 

[Stauffenberg13]

Although, I would say the movement is too historically insignificant and too late in the game's timeframe to be included seriously.

I disagree. This Pan-Turkic ideology was embraced by a party that ruled the Ottoman Empire (a major nation in Victoria) through one of the most important portions of the time frame covered by the game (that is, WWI). It definitely had an effect on history, even if it did fail.

 

[rjf101]

Wow, I never knew an ideology like that really existed, that Turks and Japanese and all that are related. I guess some people will believe anything . But it would still be cool to emulate this in the game, if it was a serious idea at the time.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I'm reminded of the novel 'Scoop' when Boot visits the fascist and communist governments-in-exile of an obscure African state, the fascist claiming his people are in fact white and the hostile elements of European society black, the communist claiming the exact opposite, ending 'Africa for the African worker; Asia for the African worker; Oceania, Europe, North and South America for the African worker'.

 

[NeoT]

It would be nice to be able to liberate The Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia

 

[unmerged(148774)]

The Japanese and Turks are related? Japan has alot more in common with China, since that is where the first Japanese civilization borrowed heavily from. The Japanese language is very much influenced by Chinese, and has not a hint of Turkic in it. And there's no way Hungarians and Japanese are related. I know Hungarians supposedly have "Asiatic" origins but they're not that Asian

Where the Japanese or Japanese language originated from is a hot topic of debate. Here's a good article on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_Japanese