Megathread : Nations That Should Be In Victoria 2

[Hardstuff]

I´d love to see the posibility of "old empires" coming back to life too. Examples? Well, the most evident is India, coming back to the times of Asoka after the 1857 uprising; but a second Khemer Empire in the SE part of the Asian continent would be cool to see too.

The Mughals, or even Egypt (a sort of Mamluk revival?)

In fact, VIP had the possibility for the latter, though unfortunately the events weren't perfect when I tried it (afaik VIP:R 0.1, not sure if I tried it in 0.2, certainly not 0.3!) - but even at that, it was quite unlikely (required defeating an Ottoman Empire which received quite generous European help, in my case, I was France helping the Egyptians, which required a lot of commitment - which proved to be very entertaining!)

Persia, certainly, and China should have the ability to do so in rare cases.

Of course, during this time European civilisation was going through a gigantic change, a leap forward, with momentum that was so very unlikely to spread outside Europe - but I agree, under certain leadership and certain circumstances, it should be possible. It would prove to be very entertaining!

 

[Barón Rojo]

But Mughalistan is a correct name for a XIX century unification of India?

 

[The Great Duck]

If there's no Byzantium in, I'm not buying!

I don't think that would be really realistic,though.

 

[Niptium]

Originally Posted by DarthJF
If there's no Byzantium in, I'm not buying!

Wow. We got Peter Griffin lurking on the board y'all !:rofl:

 

[The Great Duck]

Well, yet to unify the Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes, the Yugoslavs and some others under one fraternity.

Yugoslavs don't exist...And if you're talking about them,Slovenia was also a part of Yugoslavia.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Yugoslavs don't exist...And if you're talking about them,Slovenia was also a part of Yugoslavia.

Slovenia is a hypothetical state by itself. They are Slavic speaking Huns who dress and eat like Italians, act as if they are Germans and think like Russians.

 

[Sarmatian]

Yugoslavs don't exist...And if you're talking about them,Slovenia was also a part of Yugoslavia.

If Vicky 2 is gonna be like Vicky 1 in that regard, creation of Yugoslavia should be handled by having Serbs, Croats and Slovenes as national cultures.

No need to create Yugoslav culture.

Possibility for creation of Yugoslavia should exist, definitely. Although historically country was created after WW1, the idea was definitely there in the 19th century.

Slovenia is a hypothetical state by itself. They are Slavic speaking Huns who dress and eat like Italians, act as if they are Germans and think like Russians.

:rofl:

 

[unmerged(57215)]

If Vicky 2 is gonna be like Vicky 1 in that regard, creation of Yugoslavia should be handled by having Serbs, Croats and Slovenes as national cultures.

I think that all Vicky 2 would need to simulate a realistic Yugoslavia is a couple of events put together right.
The trigger's conditions would be like this:
1Serbia remains a tiny country for a long time squeezed between two powerful, gigantic, sprawling multi-national empires.
2Serbia gets into a fight with its northern colossal neighbor and actually manages to stand up on its own two feet
3after tons of fighting carried out by tons of different sides, Serbia's northern colossal neighbor collapses.
4all the ethnic Minorities of the area closes to Serbia have no Idea what to do
5Serbia sees a golden opportunity to fulfill a nationalist dream and collect all the dispersed Serb minorities to its North in an act of national unification. Only, of course they're not going to call it national unification out of respect for the majority regional populations. These, disappointingly, are not Serbs. Worse yet, these people made up the rank and file of the colossal neighbor army the Serbs just spent years fighting and technically, they're a defeated people in this regard.

The event fires and triggers and event whereby Yugoslavia is created and a consolidation of everthiing from Slovenia to Macedonia comes about, wherein the Serbs say that its for all the southern Slavs- but they explain to their new subjects-er-fellow countrymen that the King of Serbia gets to be the King of Yugoslavia not because he's a Serb, but just because he's way cooler than anyone who's not a Serb. "Oh," they follow up "the politician who's going to be the first Prime Minister is also a Serb, but it will be ok because only really lame people don't think he's awesome."

I could never help but notice that for the Union of a variety of ethnic groups, the first head of state and head of government are both Serbs since coincidentally they were on the side that won WWI:rofl:
But it's not like that was supposed to give anyone a heads up or anything, right?

 

[unmerged(96639)]

If Vicky 2 is gonna be like Vicky 1 in that regard, creation of Yugoslavia should be handled by having Serbs, Croats and Slovenes as national cultures.

No need to create Yugoslav culture.

Possibility for creation of Yugoslavia should exist, definitely. Although historically country was created after WW1, the idea was definitely there in the 19th century.

Of course. The original post-war Versailles state was called the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes until 1929 (iirc). Nothing remotely resembling a Yugoslav culture appeared until the 1960's or so in the next, socialist Yugoslavia, and even there it was a very small minority of people who identified as such for various reasons.

How to properly represent the de facto Serbian hegemony in the Kingdom of SHS is another question. It's tricky because the H's and S's had voting rights (right to win elections not included), but weren't exactly "national cultures" in the proper sense. Maybe Vicky 2 will rework the way minorities are treated.

 

[Sarmatian]

Of course. The original post-war Versailles state was called the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes until 1929 (iirc). Nothing remotely resembling a Yugoslav culture appeared until the 1960's or so in the next, socialist Yugoslavia, and even there it was a very small minority of people who identified as such for various reasons.

How to properly represent the de facto Serbian hegemony in the Kingdom of SHS is another question. It's tricky because the H's and S's had voting rights (right to win elections not included), but weren't exactly "national cultures" in the proper sense. Maybe Vicky 2 will rework the way minorities are treated.

Who said in-game Yugoslavia has to be the same as historical one?

The important thing would be the ability to create, probably best via a decision. The rest is up to you - do you want a constitutional monarchy, democracy, dictatorship...

There were ideas about some kind of joint South Slav state in spread throughout what later became Yugoslavia, although only Croats and Serbs moved forward from the basic concept. If thingg happened differently, we may have seen different kind of Yugoslavia. There were even thoughts about other Slavs in AH joining to create even bigger Slavic state, namely Czechs and Slovaks.

But, to translate this to game terms - I think both Serbia and Croatia (if it gains independence of course) should be able to create Yugoslavia. If they control needed provinces and have satisfied a few other conditions they should be able to create it. How would that country look like it's totally up to the player and the in-game situation...

 

[jebmagruder]

The Caucasian Imamate, Georgia, Daghestan, Armenia, Azerbaijan. Any possible nation in the Caucasus.

 

[MoxPearl]

-Australia/New Zealand union. Australiasia? United Australia? New Zealand very nearly joined Australia but New Zealand's Treaty of Waitangi clashed with Australian White Australia policy. This could be an interesting event chain, do they ignore the Treaty of Waitangi, generating BB & militancy, scrap the White Australia Policy, raising Aboriginal Australian consciouness through the roof & altering many political party's policies away from jingoism/residence. IF the WAP is scrapped, THEN another decision could arise around incorporating Papua New Guinea & Pacific Islands into Australia, as the incorporation of a majority "black" area was prohibited by the WAP. Other eventualities include New Zealand without the ToW being incorporated into Australia no fuss, and Australia incorporating PNG et al despite having the WAP in a more "oppressive" policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi

That would be a very interesting event chain.

New Zealand and Fiji both almost joined the Federation of Australia.. but decided not to .

One of the main reasons new zealand didnt join was because

"Maori affairs formed an integral and important component of New Zealand politics, and New Zealand was reluctant to share these responsibilities with a distant government who knew and cared little about the native situation."

Basically we were making a multi cultural society with the maori people (Granted im half pacific islander myself).. while Australia was.. well we all know how Australia dealed with the native issue...)

From a old picture

"Federated Australia: "Come into these arms"
New Zealand: "Nay sir, these arms bear chains""

It could make a amazing event chain if you had a event/decision.

Anyways some more info here

http://nzstatehood.yolasite.com/



PS sorry if there are any spelling mistakes.. im half asleep

 

[unmerged(110676)]

Manchuria, Cantonese state, Han State, would all be interesting additions.

 

[Vacceo]

But Mughalistan is a correct name for a XIX century unification of India?

One of the official names of nowdays India is "Republic of Bharat". Since this name is one of the oldest denominations of India, I think it would be fair to call it that way or just India. (Dear forum mates from India; I hope I´m not disrespecful to your country and if you think this is not appropriate, do not hesitate to correct me)

Still, if the aim is rebuilding Asoka´s empire, it would be quite bigger than nowdays India. It would also include Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and parts of Myanmar.

 

[Neumann]

The Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia

COLOMBIA.... yes COLOMBIA but the one that SIMON BOLIVAR envisioned!!!

Also known as greater colombia or GROSSKOLUMBIEN wow sounds fascistic!:rofl:

 

[Sling Shot]

State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. (Not to be confused with Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, notice the reversed order!) An independent state which existed during the end of WWI and consisted of the modern-day territories of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and parts of Vojvodina. It later joined with Serbia to form the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (reversed again!), but could also have stayed independent. Also, it was very possible that Austria-Hungary would have created a third entity to counter the Yugoslav idea, effectively turning the dual monarchy into a triple monarchy, had it not collapsed, and the third entity would have consisted roughly of the territories mentioned before.

A bit far-fetched, but it would be interesting.

 

[unmerged(12990)]

If Vicky 2 is gonna be like Vicky 1 in that regard, creation of Yugoslavia should be handled by having Serbs, Croats and Slovenes as national cultures.

No need to create Yugoslav culture.

Possibility for creation of Yugoslavia should exist, definitely. Although historically country was created after WW1, the idea was definitely there in the 19th century.



:rofl:

In the 19th century there was the idea of a Yugoslavia as a third entity together with Austria and Hungary within Austria-Hungary. Outside of intellectual circles nobody even thought of it as an independent entity until mid-WW1...

More on this later.

 

[unmerged(12990)]

Slovenia is a hypothetical state by itself. They are Slavic speaking Huns who dress and eat like Italians, act as if they are Germans and think like Russians.

Well you got about 50% right, not too bad.

 

[unmerged(12990)]

State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. (Not to be confused with Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, notice the reversed order!) An independent state which existed during the end of WWI and consisted of the modern-day territories of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and parts of Vojvodina. It later joined with Serbia to form the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (reversed again!), but could also have stayed independent. Also, it was very possible that Austria-Hungary would have created a third entity to counter the Yugoslav idea, effectively turning the dual monarchy into a triple monarchy, had it not collapsed, and the third entity would have consisted roughly of the territories mentioned before.

A bit far-fetched, but it would be interesting.

Yes, creating Austria-Hungary-Yugoslavia as a triple monarchy should definitely be a decision which the Austrian player can choose. A decision like that should, however come with an extremely high cost (there's a reason why the emperor Karl never had the strength to pull it off). But as such it should appear late in the game, as in 1848, for example, that wasn't a viable idea yet (as I mentioned earlier, in 1848 Slovenes were clamoring for a United Slovenia, not a united Yugoslavia - they only did that in 1917, and even then they wanted it to be ruled by the Habsburgs as a third entity).

 

[Orinsul]

in Victoria Egypt gets to say, "I am now the Caliphate" or something along those lines at the very start of the GC with the orient crisis event so maybe thatd be a new nation to be formable or atleast a flag change. And New Zealand shouldnt join with australia as its a much better place and a less criminal sort of colony or if it does itll be easy enough to prevent by taking out the option from the event files when i get a copy on that fatefull day a year or two from now so no worries.
but the eygpt thing, and also Wales. and lots of little africa ones, Rhodesia, togo, uganda and all that so that the Empires can be sundered into nothing and leave a great many little post imperial collapse half civilised nations all over africa. and certainly have British India able to fall apart and not just for provinces to defect hickledly pickle.