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Pavía

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Hey Pavia, thanks for your engagement with the community here! In my previous thread about Catholics and Hagia Sophia, you said it’d be changed in the next patch, which I assume means 1.31.5.
Would you consider also adding a small Papal Influence modifier to the monument? For Orthodox it give Patriarch Authority and for Muslims it gives Piety, so if you’re opening it to Catholics it makes sense to add a bonus for them too.

Plus historically speaking I suppose the Catholic controller of such an important location as the Hagia Sophia would enjoy a certain level of prestige with the Pope.

By that same logic of course I’d think St. Peter’s would also give Patriarch Authority if held by the Orthodox, as Rome is traditionally one of the Pentarchy.

It’s really cool to see you on here engaging in these forums. Monuments are such a huge feature that will really breathe flavor into the game when they’re balanced and fleshed out. I’m glad you’re balancing what you have now but I hope you add some more in the future!
The Papal Influence modifier has already been considered, but it's not useful for Papal States, the country that should be the main user of the monument, so we looked for other modifiers that would add a little more punch to it; also taking into account the penalties for Catholic countries occupying Rome.

Thanks your your kind words, too.
ITT: Dev: We're not planning on adding new monuments at this time
Everyone else: Here, do this monument!
It's OK. As I said, we're not planning on new additions for the moment, but perhaps in the future this could be done, so having this kind of feedback already here would be very useful for us.
 
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@Pavía It's OK. As I said, we're not planning on new additions for the moment, but perhaps in the future this could be done, so having this kind of feedback already here would be very useful for us.

Thank you, that's nice friend! It makes me very happy, and probably for other people too!
There are already quite a few monuments added by other people and myself. After normal, concentrating on more important things is completely normal. :)
 

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The Papal Influence modifier has already been considered, but it's not useful for Papal States, the country that should be the main user of the monument, so we looked for other modifiers that would add a little more punch to it; also taking into account the penalties for Catholic countries occupying Rome.

Thanks your your kind words, too.

It's OK. As I said, we're not planning on new additions for the moment, but perhaps in the future this could be done, so having this kind of feedback already here would be very useful for us.
I was joking, honestly. :)

If you want inspiration, be sure to look at the monuments expanded mod too. Link: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2469419235
 
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Religion-related Monuments should have a quality that defines which religions are associated with.

The define would work like this:
religious_association = { religion = sunni infidel_penalty = -5 }

this quality would need to be able to accept both individual religions and religious groups. When the monument would be owned by a nation that does not have the relevant religion/religious group would get the diplo penalty with all nations that follow the given religion/religious group.

That would put a limit on pokemoning Monuments. It would also properly represent the revanchism that is associated with important religious places, such as all the many conflicts over Jerusalem.
 
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With Johan's new post about monuments and the team is planning on adding more of them, I suggest reworking all Holy Sites/triggered modifiers in general. Currently we already have Rome where there is a monument. I suggest incorporating the missionaries and triggered modifiers into the monuments themselves. Maybe with the missionary added at monument lvl 1. If you do it like this, don't forget to include Coptic/Orthodox and other religions for monuments like Rome, which is currently only useable by the Papal States.
 
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Pavía

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Q1: Will Heddal Stave Church be movable?
I wonder why it's currently not (that's what wiki says if its up to date).

I have an example. A smaller church - Vang Stave Church - but also wooden, was moved form Vang, Norway to (currently) Karpacz, Poland in 1842.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vang_Stave_Church
1024px-Karpacz-_zespol_kosciola_Wang.jpg

Back to the topic of the thread:
Q2: Will Wieliczka Salt Mine be in the game one day? It's quite unique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine

Malbork is a Teutonic castle. This monument is located in Poland, but it is undoubtedly Teutonic.

Wawel could be a typical Polish monument, and Kiev could have a Pechersk Lavra.

I'm taking the liberty of answering your questions here rather than in the 'New monuments for 1.30.5' thread, so we don't hijack the voting.

For Q1, well, we know that temples and shrines could be moved from their place, even if they're built in stone (in Spain we have a sad tradition of monasteries being sold and relocated outside, actually). But the criterion used in the game right now is that only sculptures are movable,

For the suggestions, we'll add Wieliczka to our list of possible additions, and Wawel was already suggested by other people. On the other hand, Kiev Pechersk Lavra is already a monument present in the game.

With Johan's new post about monuments and the team is planning on adding more of them, I suggest reworking all Holy Sites/triggered modifiers in general. Currently we already have Rome where there is a monument. I suggest incorporating the missionaries and triggered modifiers into the monuments themselves. Maybe with the missionary added at monument lvl 1. If you do it like this, don't forget to include Coptic/Orthodox and other religions for monuments like Rome, which is currently only useable by the Papal States.

Good suggestion, we'll take that into account for next version on a wider basis, as depending on the result of the voting we'll probably have to add monuments in provinces were there already are modifiers, as you say.
 
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I get the general idea of swapping out old Province modifiers for Monuments, but if the Kabaa wins I'd be careful on that, since its Province modifier is explicitly for Christians, while I'd assume only Muslims can use the Kabaa. So I doubt it can be a blanket policy.
 
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Love the monuments for immersion and learning about for me less known regions. I hope the content creators might include some short texts about the monuments, just like for the missions. Speaking of missions there might be some potential for new monuments. I am fine with modifiers as missions rewards, but the Venetian missions "expand the doge's palace" seems odd. One monument for the palace is also a bit much, but venice as a city is clearly monument-worthy and the mission could be one upgrade instead of having money (not even spending it).
 
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Any change of adding the Grand Canal of China either as a canal (part of it that connects to lake provinces, so it would actually be usable by ships) or an ordinary Monument?
 
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Hello everyone! I'm one of the new devs, and I'm in charge of the monuments balance and issues in 1.31 version, as you could probably have seen in other threads.

I'm pumping this one because I want to gather further feedback about balancing and fixing this feature in the following patches, so feel free to suggest whatever you want about the topic, and I'll be taking account of it.

I'm also aware that here we've got a bunch of good suggestions for adding more monuments. For now, we're focusing on balancing the ones we've got already in the game; but perhaps in the future some could be added, we'll think about it.

For game balance reasons can you give Adal a monument since Ethiopia would be wayy to overpowered compared to its historic rival

I suggest to consider adding the walled holy city of harar

It was built within the games timeframe


The walls surrounding this sacred city, considered “the fourth holy city” of Islam, were built between the 13th and 16th centuries and served as a protective barrier. “

more info :
  • Said to be the first city Muslims migrated to from the Arabian peninsula

  • "This is one of the world's ancient civilisations," local historian Abdulswamad Idris tells me.

  • "Some of the mosques you see here were built in the 10th Century."

  • some consider it to be Islam's fourth holiest city after Mecca, Jerusalem and Medina
    do let me know your thoughts
 
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Something I'd like to add on the topic of Mt. Fuji - Since Shinto nations can convert to either Confucian or Catholic as a result of Incidents, as well as Mahayana, it does feel like it would be nice if Mt. Fuji did something for both of these religions?

From a fluff perspective it makes sense that shrines would continue to see use if converting to Confucian via incidents especially (since doing so starts with Shinto harmonized anyway). For Catholic it makes less sense fluff wise - the main motivator here is the gameplay (want to mitigate the 'feel-bad-ness' of converting to catholic and losing access to the unique wonder), but to be honest I feel like Mt. Fuji would continue to be an important site culturally, even if the state religion was changed?
 
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I'm taking the liberty of answering your questions here rather than in the 'New monuments for 1.30.5' thread, so we don't hijack the voting.

For Q1, well, we know that temples and shrines could be moved from their place, even if they're built in stone (in Spain we have a sad tradition of monasteries being sold and relocated outside, actually). But the criterion used in the game right now is that only sculptures are movable,

For the suggestions, we'll add Wieliczka to our list of possible additions, and Wawel was already suggested by other people. On the other hand, Kiev Pechersk Lavra is already a monument present in the game.
@Pavía

Thank you for your response :)

In my opinion, the region of Silesia is too poorly represented, and you can find many potential Monuments on it, for example:
1. Moszna Castle
2. Pszczyna Castle
3. Friedenskirche in Jawor (Unfortunately, there is no description of this church on the English Wikipedia. That's why I sent it from German-speaking Wikipedia)

The listed monuments were built during the times when Silesia belonged to the Germans - in my opinion the most rich in monuments period in Silesia. I think Silesia should have a lot of provinces so that their density resembles the region of Westphalia (Silesia was very populated). So for this reason I think that at least one Monument (and maybe even two) in Silesia should appear. After all, it is a very important region for Europe, a region for which both Poles, Germans and Czechs fought. Silesia needs more love.
 

Pavía

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Any change of adding the Grand Canal of China either as a canal (part of it that connects to lake provinces, so it would actually be usable by ships) or an ordinary Monument?
I think Grand Canal of China would be hard to implement, as we're not really using lakes as sea provinces in the game, and it's also difficult to lock it to only one province. We have other interesting suggestions in Chinese region though, as you could see with Porcelain Tower of Nanjing in the new monuments voting. ;)
For game balance reasons can you give Adal a monument since Ethiopia would be wayy to overpowered compared to its historic rival

I suggest to consider adding the walled holy city of harar

It was built within the games timeframe


The walls surrounding this sacred city, considered “the fourth holy city” of Islam, were built between the 13th and 16th centuries and served as a protective barrier. “

more info :
  • Said to be the first city Muslims migrated to from the Arabian peninsula

  • "This is one of the world's ancient civilisations," local historian Abdulswamad Idris tells me.

  • "Some of the mosques you see here were built in the 10th Century."

  • some consider it to be Islam's fourth holiest city after Mecca, Jerusalem and Medina
    do let me know your thoughts
Harar has already been suggested by other fans, and it's in our long-list of possible additions.
Something I'd like to add on the topic of Mt. Fuji - Since Shinto nations can convert to either Confucian or Catholic as a result of Incidents, as well as Mahayana, it does feel like it would be nice if Mt. Fuji did something for both of these religions?

From a fluff perspective it makes sense that shrines would continue to see use if converting to Confucian via incidents especially (since doing so starts with Shinto harmonized anyway). For Catholic it makes less sense fluff wise - the main motivator here is the gameplay (want to mitigate the 'feel-bad-ness' of converting to catholic and losing access to the unique wonder), but to be honest I feel like Mt. Fuji would continue to be an important site culturally, even if the state religion was changed?
Well, I think that having it restricted to Catholic daimyos would make sense, as its temples would have no special religious significance to them, and it would be a trade-off for conversion.

About Confucianism, well, it would make more sense, but we would also have to think about how that could affect another Confucian country conquering Mount Fuji; but it's not a bad suggestion, though.
@Pavía

Thank you for your response :)

In my opinion, the region of Silesia is too poorly represented, and you can find many potential Monuments on it, for example:
1. Moszna Castle
2. Pszczyna Castle
3. Friedenskirche in Jawor (Unfortunately, there is no description of this church on the English Wikipedia. That's why I sent it from German-speaking Wikipedia)

The listed monuments were built during the times when Silesia belonged to the Germans - in my opinion the most rich in monuments period in Silesia. I think Silesia should have a lot of provinces so that their density resembles the region of Westphalia (Silesia was very populated). So for this reason I think that at least one Monument (and maybe even two) in Silesia should appear. After all, it is a very important region for Europe, a region for which both Poles, Germans and Czechs fought. Silesia needs more love.
Thanks for your suggestions. We want to add more monuments in Eastern Europe in the future, and Poland could likely have one; hard competitors in that region, I think. ;)
 
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Krebsig

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I think Grand Canal of China would be hard to implement, as we're not really using lakes as sea provinces in the game, and it's also difficult to lock it to only one province. We have other interesting suggestions in Chinese region though, as you could see with Porcelain Tower of Nanjing in the new monuments voting. ;)

Harar has already been suggested by other fans, and it's in our long-list of possible additions.

Well, I think that having it restricted to Catholic daimyos would make sense, as its temples would have no special religious significance to them, and it would be a trade-off for conversion.

About Confucianism, well, it would make more sense, but we would also have to think about how that could affect another Confucian country conquering Mount Fuji; but it's not a bad suggestion, though.

Thanks for your suggestions. We want to add more monuments in Eastern Europe in the future, and Poland could likely have one; hard competitors in that region, I think. ;)

Thanks for your engagement here, I think another good idea for a monument in Eastern Europe could be Castle Trakai since Lithuania could use some love to keep up with Poland and Russia in terms of flavor.


I also have a few suggestions for more monuments that focus on the German region, so bear with me:
- Hofburg or St. Stephans
- Herrenhausen Gardens
- Aachen Cathedral
- Ulmer Minster
- Speyer Cathedral
- Sanssouci
- Dresden Zwinger
 
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I think Grand Canal of China would be hard to implement, as we're not really using lakes as sea provinces in the game, and it's also difficult to lock it to only one province.
I think even as a river with no adjacencies (which can be done with same tools as every other canal) the grand canal could be interesting as it still provides river crossings which are of military importance and the China superregion lacks them. If one would lock it to one province I think it should definitely be Suzhou as it profited the most from its location at the grand canal. It is also very interesting that Suzhou does not have a monument while it was by far the most prosperous city in china during the EU4 time frame and its most important center of trade, outstripping Beijing, Nanjing, Hangzhou, Xian and Guangzhou. In general I think that some of the wealthiest cities in the world during the early modern era like Dhaka, Suzhou, Venice and Amsterdam are underrepresented when it comes to monuments. For all these cities there could be a focus on economic monuments which were not only build for splendor but were of real economic use. These could be more focused on strong local modifiers opposed to global ones:

Suzhou:
Grand Canal
Reason:
Adds military depth to the China region and represents the importance of Suzhou
Possible Bonuses:
Local trade power

Dhaka:
Bara Katra
Reason: Dhaka was the capital of the Bengal Subah which generated up to 50% of the gdp of the Mughal Empire a good amount of this in Dhaka itself. The Bara Katra represents the large industries located in Dhaka.
Possible Bonuses:
Areawide Production
Areawide Goods produced

Venice:
Venetian Arsenal
Reason: Most efficient shipbuilding in the world during the EU4 time frame and largest industrial complex in Europe. Could produce almost one ship per day and was crucial for the maritime power of the Republic of Venice.
Possible Bonuses:
Local Naval Force Limit
Local Sailors
ship recruit speed

Amsterdam:
Dutch Polders
Reason: Crucial for the rise of Holland as the economic center of Europe. Most effective land reclamation during the early modern period.
Possible Bonuses:
Areawide Trade Power
Areawide Development cost
something related to defense as they could be flooded, see: Dutch Water Line.

By the way is there a possibility of adding the local trade power bonuses from canals as modifiers visible in the trade mapmode? It would be really helpful as they act in a similar way as CoTs.
 
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Just so it is consolidated in this megathread, I'd like to reiterate my suggestion from a different thread towards making a wonder out of Bibliotheca Corviniana, which can also be tied to its mission (although the means both Emperor and Leviathan are required for it, I still think it would be a nice touch). It would remedy its measly 20 years bonus from the mission (I prefer smaller, but more long term bonuses while avoiding power creep) and also be a refreshment from all those castle and church monuments. I was also built not long into the game, making it especially fitting compared to out-of-timeframe castles some nations unfortunetly got, while also giving more flavour to Central-Eastern Europe. Its possible bonuses could be:
Tech cost reduction
Idea cost reduction (these are also given by the mission)
Institution spread
Reform progress growth
perhaps Dip rep/improve relations (representing foreign scholars coming for visits), but obviously these arent all needed and are suggested just to give some general concept.

Its destruction also is fitting for a reduction of tier mechanic upon changing hands, and its upgrades are also a straightforward expansion of the library, which unfortunately didnt happen in real life due to the Ottoman conquest.
 
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In such a vast land of India there is only 3 monument out of which 2 are religion locked so not all used (I hope in future more would be added).

I want to draw attention towards three monuments:

1. Taj Mahal was not built till 1630s so its upgrade should not be allowed from the beginning years of the game and should be locked behind event.
2. The Golden Temple (Harmandir Sahib) was built in 1604, so again we have similar problem as the first one.
3. It is very much possible to play as Hindu Khmer from very beginning and in that case Karma bonus of Angkor becomes useless. It should be made something more useful (a sufficient compensation against Karma in case it is controlled by a Hindu tag) - also should be noted that Angkor was originally a Vishnu Temple. (Dharmic).
 
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BOSSOVSKY

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Thanks for your suggestions. We want to add more monuments in Eastern Europe in the future, and Poland could likely have one; hard competitors in that region, I think.
Nice :)
I am of the opinion that there should be at least one Monument for each culture - you can follow the UNESCO World Heritage List. For example:
Belarusian culture - Mir Castle Complex,
Slovak culture - Spiš Castle,
Latvian culture - Riga Cathedral,
etc...
In this way, each nation would have its Monument (at least lying on its territory) in EU4.

Departing from the topic
I think that this game could use a Baltic update - the Nordic countries, the Baltic countries, the Teutonic Order, Pomerania, Silesia and Poland. A very small number of provinces in Silesia is terrible, and so is the number of provinces in East Prussia. To this one could add new cultures - Prūsai (Old Prussian) and Kashubian. New provinces are always happy. Then, finally, northern Europe would look better. With this update, there could be a DLC that adds mission trees (for the countries in the regions I mentioned).
I hope you will consider my ideas.
 
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My little suggestions for Monuments in the future
Per Region
Russia
Poland
Italy

Old Harbour
Tunisia