Megathread : Immigration In Victoria 2

[Dustermaker]

i hope they add to this, like skilled farmers having the effect : increasing output of crops or cattle for a region. for example

I agree, it made the game feel so much more alive! I can't wait to play this game!!!!

 

[Sovereign]

i hope they add to this, like skilled farmers having the effect : increasing output of crops or cattle for a region. for example

There are a number of things wrong with that concept. Take a farmer from Norfolk, drop him in say... South Africa, and see how he gets on.

Not as simple as you might think, different weather, different soil, different 'pests', different alot of things. Technological improvement of such things wouldn't really be carried by waves of immigration. Rather an accumilation of localy developed know-how over time.

 

[sirsri]

ya but they'd get much larger tracts of land to screw up with to start.

that was part of how settlement was done, you take some guy who was barely making a living on a half hectare (1 acre) farm, offer him 50 or 500 hectares and then have him only be 1% as productive per unit land for a long time.

Of course you could model the build up over time of productivity. Sort of like the practical experience in HOI3 - a factory/RGO could have a bar that fills up over time and eventually produces at 100% but starts at different amounts depending on where you are, education level and so on. Education is the difference between the farmer going from norfolk to south africa and thinking it's the same to knowing it's different and doing his best to prepare. The former would be a disaster, the latter isn't perfect but it isn't catastrophic either.

 

[PMLF]

1) Immigration shouldn't be hardcoded, the info on immigration ratings has to be placed in a txt file or something, so it can edited (this way the USA won't receive all immigrants if we don't want that to happen)

2) We should be able to establish a port where the immigrants enter the country, like New York in the USA, Buenos Aires in Argentina, etc... Immigrants will then tend to stay in higher percentages in those provinces. Notice it shouldn't be mandatory, so we don't have to be forced to set that.

3) We should be able to create immigration companies to bring immigrants from this or that country, like Brazil used to do.

4) We should be able to enact rules favoring or not favoring certain kinds of immigrants (based on job, ethnicity, religion, etc... as in real life, Brazil for example favored White Catholic immigrants in the Imperial period, and white ones in the Republican period). I understand though that favoring based on ethnicity or religion may fall into anti-racism laws regardless of how realistic it would be, etc... so at least having an option to favor certain jobs will be good.

5) We should be able to set "open-doors" policies opening the country to any immigrants. Likewise we should be able to completely disallow any immigration or emmigration. Of course it won't completely prevent either in practice, but it has to have the effect of reducing it.

6) Immigrants shouldn't be assimilated so quickly (assimilation should be faster for people of similar culture, say Italian immigrants in Brazil) and they should generally keep their religions even when their ethnicity changes.

 

[unmerged(34416)]

Immigration is only hard coded in Victoria 1 because it needed to be, because there wasn't any "space" coded into the provinces. In the American landmass there was plenty of free productive space, while in Europe there wasn't. If Victoria 2 does something - perhaps simply decrease productivity as a province fills up, then that can be used to have people emigrate from there.

If immigration destination is decided by country, and a country has plenty of good resources and plenty of free productive space then immigrants should head to a province that's nearby to them. Once they're there they would naturally emigrate further into the nation to better space.

This should hopefully have Europeans emigrating to New York, and then migrating further into the USA.

 

[gosam]

I'm pretty sure immigration will be handled well this time, with all the experience from having developed a bunch of titles in between.

The way I see it, there could be two provincial variables : foreign attractivity and local attractivity. Those would represent how attractive a province is to foreign people and to the citizens of the country. Then those two variables would be affected by the other game mechanics like life rating or provincial/country events ....

 

[HMS Enterprize]

First and foremost Id like to see in Vicky 2 re immigration.

Tie continent and country bonus (mainly USA here) to success. ie- I doubt the USA would have attracted imigrants like it did if the country had been invaded/partially conquered/sufffered economic woes/etc etc

USA in Vicky get improved immigration regardless of status. If Canada/Mexico/CSA or whoever is doing better the USA should not still have a good shot at getting the immigrants first. As USA you can virtually do everything wrong (short of keeping slavery) and still get the majority of immigrants. This needs to be looked at.

Internal migration as mentioned by others.

Other factors in immigrant destinations? POPs move to high life rating, rare goods provinces first. This is ok but in addition perhaps move to big ports/high infrastructure places also. I guess high life rating and large infrastructure goes hand in hand for the most cases but dies it always?

 

[Orinsul]

id like to see immigrants not go the american continent, if England has better pluriaty and democracy and all that rabbits foot see greeks and the like make their way to australia and south africa not to the west alone. And just if your austria or something losing craftsmen is annoying enough without those yanks getting their hands on them

 

[unmerged(56465)]

id like to see immigrants not go the american continent, if England has better pluriaty and democracy and all that rabbits foot see greeks and the like make their way to australia and south africa not to the west alone. And just if your austria or something losing craftsmen is annoying enough without those yanks getting their hands on them

It's possible as it is, but you have to be pretty gamey to do it. So yeah, I definitely agree, along with everyone else, that immigration should be more dispersed.

 

[Gatkramp]

Like posted previously in this thread:

As much I wanted to post a new thread, I thought my ideas in this post would mean the mods won't have to move it. Hopefully these are new ideas that haven't been intoduced yet.

1 - I would like colonial tags for culture groups, that when applied, increases the conversion rate. (examples: The Dutch, Germans, French and Portugese that moved to South Africa quickly became a part of the Boer Culture. Then British and Irish cultures quickly became American, etc).

2 - Some cultures should have affinities to converting to another (Germans and Dutch easily changed to Boers. They would also convert between each other alot easier. America would have an affinity with all European cultures but Spain and Portugal, etc).

3 - Similarily, the richer and more prominent groups tended to resist changing to these colonial cultures (seen by British resistance to assimilation). These should only convert (or be harder to convert) if they are supporters of the ruling party.

4 - Immigration should also be influenced by the culture (and/or accepted cultures) of target nations/provinces. This would mean that the dutch english may move to it's territories or former territories before they start moving to french or spanish territories. This should also include the affinity rule, meaning more likely immigration to countries that have an affinity with your culture group (allowing for increased immigration to the USA).

5 - Cultures should convert to the accepted culture population in their province, instead of the accepted culture of the nation. This could mean some would convert to one culture, while others to another (taking into consideration the affinity to surrounding cultures, of course). This would stop the dominance of one culture over another in a multi culture state (The English over the French Candians or the English over the Boers, etc...)

I have many more ideas, but would like to keep this short (so people actually read this). I would like responses, to indicate whether I am way off mark on what people want in regards to immigration.

I'd also like to add that the immigration to the new world and all that should be tied to the continent and province status, not the country tag or province number as such.

 

[unmerged(56465)]

Irish cultures quickly became American

They did?

 

[unmerged(135578)]

However, one important factor in immigration were various governmental programs that varied from free land to infrastructure construction (to darker shades like pogroms).

For example my family ancestors who emigrated or worked abroad decade or so in those times did it because of the money involved. The economic progress and opportunities brought forwards by government measures should thus have considerable effort in attractiveness.

 

[unmerged(63189)]

idea: why not make migrations and assimilations happen by percentage of a pop.
in vicky when certain immigrant pop exceeds certain (double c word, damn) ammount, it doesn't get assimilated, not to mention all new same culture immigrant pops instantly join them and also don't assimilate.
vicky2 might solve the problem by setting assimilation by percentage, size of % assimilated per year depending on same factors as in vicky (or whatever the factors developers seem proper). this happens untill a 'foreign' pop size goes below coded amount, when they go back to regular assimilation rules (cmon, we don't want hundreds of tiny unassimilated pops out there, do we? -well.. maybe that'd be more realistic: foreign ghettos always existed.-yeah but it would add hell of micromanagement). what do you people think?

pencil written sidenote:
* also don't forget to put aliens in game, preferably as playable supernation with phazer technology and teleportation.
** and put in game playable heroes who gain levels in classes and get new equipment like swords, magic spells etc., and can duel enemy armies
*** comando brigades ofc.

edit: nah, don't do the sidenotes

 

[Zelvik]

How about an overcrowding factor that promotes further migration to the flat lands? Its probably difficult to balance to get it right for both Europe and the US or other colonies.

It could be determined by a rural/urban modifier that pops carry. Rural pops would be more affected by overcrowding than urban pops. And certain evetns might add or decrease desireability for certain regions.

Some examples:
Major European cieties in the second half of 19th century. By some events that are triggered by modifiers/flags that have built over the course of industrialisation part of the pops are gradually turned into urban pops leading to immigration to city centers.

In the US there could be events associated with the teritorries that make them particularly inviting from rural pops that seek wide landscapes. Therefore all the rural pops that first migrated to the US city centers star to trickle through internal migration to the teritories and new states.

Urbanisation of provinces could have a similar representation as "life rating" in Vicky 1 had. They could also influence each other with high urbanisation leading to a lower life rating if certain inventions (like medicine) are not present.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

You know I think the laws system from HoI3 might be used for immigration, maybe as part of political reforms, deciding who can get in and who cant, etc...

 

[Gatkramp]

They did?

Comparatively. They moved to America, and settled there.

Much of the British population in South Africa was temporary. Many would then either move back to the UK or move on to Australia or New Zealand.

 

[HMS Enterprize]

How about an overcrowding factor that promotes further migration to the flat lands?

Interesting idea. It would be nice to be able to simulate the 'drive to the west' and perhaps in general terms promote migration within a country.

Getting immigrants is cool and all but when Alaska becomes your most populous province- you get the feeling something isnt quite right! :rofl:

Would also be cool to see (if circumstances permit) better representation of other migrations- Chinese to California for example. (Vancouver, Canada also has quite a large Chinese population although Im not sure when this started).

The US immigration bonus needs to be sorted however. An independant California will often do very badly-generally and with immigration issues. I doubt the Chinese would not have come simply because Cali wasnt in the USA....??

 

[birdboy2000]

Make it scale to province number to some degree, and make them spread out to FILL the space. If Uruguay wants a massive population, they should need to conquer lands to put them.

 

[Axel]

As you say migrants should first arrive to an easy accessible port from where they move on to:

Places with natural resources that have become valuable (oil, gold etc)

They should also consider the climate of the area, making it more likely that only a few would move to Alaska.

And farmers should be looking for large unexploited landmasses that they can settle for.

 

[SamouraiSteven]

I have some ideas on immigration too, but they are linked to other ideas.

1/ Centers of Trade (I'm kind of obsessed with this idea o ). If Centers of Trade are implemented, then they should be the first place international migrants are going to look at, so places like New York or Paris could attract the immigration they historically did. From there, national migration could take place to other underdeveloped provinces, with understaffed RGOs.

2/ I think RGOs should be limited in capacity (I just wrote something about it in the Economics Megathread). In that case, a population with full-staffed RGOs and unemployed POPs will see emigration.

By the way, I like the idea of ports being a destination for migrants; we could combine this with the CoT factor. To take the example of France, both Paris and Marseilles were important places for migrants to come.