Megathread : Ideologies in Victoria 2

[ComradeOm]

Nationalism/Separatism

I'd rather see that as a separate indicator. Largely because 'nationalism' took many forms. That is, rather being a distinct ideology in its own right, every one of the existing political categories has some nationalist variant. So you'd get 'conservative nationalists', 'liberal nationalists', 'fascist nationalists', etc. In Weimar Republic these would be the DNVP, DVP, and NSDAP respectively

It might be better to either leave nationalism as a political issue or modify 'consciousness' to account for it. Perhaps using two categories - 'national consciousness' and 'class consciousness' or making them opposing poles on the same meter. That way socialist POPs that have high national consciousness will either vote for a social nationalist party (such as the Polish Socialist Party or Irish Labour Party) or switch their loyalty to a liberal-nationalist party, for example

Come to think of it, isn't that how its already handled? A POP with low consciousness is more likely to vote for parties on the basis of single issues... such as citizenship policies

 

[xelloss]

Please... no.

Yes, too late for the game period, didn't you read all of my post?

 

[molace]

Fascist
Nationalist
Imperialist
Capitalist
Conservative
Liberal
Anarchist
Socialist
Communist

Modern ones(only in late periods, probably shouldn't be included):
Technocratic
Corporatic
Fundamentalist

 

[Xz2]

Fascist
Nationalist
Imperialist
Capitalist
Conservative
Liberal
Anarchist
Socialist
Communist

Modern ones(only in late periods, probably shouldn't be included):
Technocratic
Corporatic
Fundamentalist

-nationalist is coverd by issues: a jingoist, resident party is nationalist for example
-Imperialist: What would that be? probably a jingoist party as it tries to expand by all means possible
-Capitalist is a economic system, in the game coverd by (probably) all liberals, conservitiv and facist partys. (and i think most socialists are state CAPITALIST too)
-Technocratic i dont know what thats supposed to be...
-Corporatic Isn't that facism? or do you mean some kinde of dictatorship of the market? then it's coverd by the "anarcho-liberals" in v1
-Fundamentalist. fundamentalist is pretty much the same as radical, ie you refuse to compromise on you principles.

 

[Taylor]

Uhm, why has this been merged with the thread that jokingly was attaching ideologies to forumites' stance regarding game devolpment (that one wasn't about game ideologies)? Now it's become weird.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

Both conservative and communist because I think that majority of the community chooses conservative

 

[Sovereign]

Conservative: Keep Vicky 2 largely the equal to the first, while improving on most features and adding new concepts.

Liberal: Make Victoria a tad more sandbox like EU3, but keep the victoria feel and POP system

Anarcho-Liberal: Make this Europa Universalis 3 : Victorian Age

Reactionary : This should be only Victoria 1 bugfixed!

Fascist : The devs shouldn't hear suggestions like those of the liberal rabble that plague this forum, they must maximize profits and ban anyone against that

Socialist : The devs should hear the community and work alongside it

Communist : The devs should obey the community and work for it

I'm a Liberal then.

 

[xelloss]

-Capitalist is a economic system, in the game coverd by (probably) all liberals, conservitiv and facist partys. (and i think most socialists are state CAPITALIST too)

Isn't communism also an economic system though? The ideology is technically named socialism if I'm not mistaken, although I am no expert on the subject.

Technocratic i don't know what that's supposed to be...

Technocracy is a social design made in the 1920's by a group called Technocracy Inc. It is a state-less, money-less system were the technology is run technocratically, and everything else by direct democracy. It is not an ideology though, and if we need to qualify it as such it would probably fall within socialism (based on the stated goal: "to provide the highest possible living standard for all citizens.")

I don't think it needs to be in Victoria 2, as it wasn't really relevant until the 20's, and even then only for north America.

 

[Orinsul]

With Ideologies the differences to the new ones proposed are inter-idelogical posistions, mere quibbles there are some places to leave well enough alone.
Techonocracy is also Harold Wilson, with isnt technology magic and computers will solve everything and like in the film Metropolis and look how well it went for them, flooded.

and people who know nothing of fascism need to stop talking about it. Economic-Ideology it was against big business and in favour of a separate government for the economy than the state which is basically a return to the Guilds and co-operation Corporation where the small family business would be delivered the buying power to compete with the Chain Stores. Equal Representation between the Worker and the Employer with the intervention and mediation of the State, the compromise.
Thrid Way, neither capitalism or socialism but a working middle between the two. If fascism was really the insanity that the great many of you seem to think it was then the millions of sensible and educated who supported it wouldnt have, its just we called the otherside Fascist and threw all fascists in the same bag as the nazis and italians and they lost the war and because the nazis were literally evil bastards the war-time propaganda stuck and people go on thinking that what the Fascists wanted and what the italians and germans got are in some way similar.

 

[xelloss]

Techonocracy is also Harold Wilson, with isnt technology magic and computers will solve everything and like in the film Metropolis and look how well it went for them, flooded.

You are using the word Technocracy for something other than the original definition to disprove it.

its just we called the otherside Fascist and threw all fascists in the same bag as the nazis and italians and they lost the war and because the nazis were literally evil bastards the war-time propaganda stuck and people go on thinking that what the Fascists wanted and what the italians and germans got are in some way similar.

And here you are blaming other people for doing the same thing :rofl:

Sorry for the OT, couldn't help myself.

 

[Orinsul]

Its a meaning that was arround at the time for Technocracy and its whats meant when most people refer to Techonocracy in the interbellum they meant in terms of the socialist-labour meaning of the term and as its the only sort that came to anything aside from academic argument its the one to be considered but either way its the most minor of minorities, if it why not Distrubutism or a seperate ideology for each nations conservative party.

 

[unmerged(42174)]

Isn't communism also an economic system though? The ideology is technically named socialism if I'm not mistaken, although I am no expert on the subject.

Communism is both an ideology and an economic system. Socialism is sometimes regarded as the same thing as communism, sometimes as a phase in the development of communism. But generally, I think the division between socialists and communists in V1 is fair, that communism is the revolutionary, more radical form, of the socialist movement.

 

[jamhaw]

Uhm, why has this been merged with the thread that jokingly was attaching ideologies to forumites' stance regarding game devolpment (that one wasn't about game ideologies)? Now it's become weird.

I agree it should be changed back to how it was.

 

[Phalanxia]

One of the things that has always puzzled me about Vicky is the complacency of other countries, particularly reactionary ones, to the establishment of Proletarian Dictatorships. There was a reason why Britain, France, Japan, the USA et al had a collective "Oh shit" moment when the USSR was proclaimed, and sent troops to attempt reverse the revolution. However, I see nothing of the kind when, say, Bavaria elects a Communist government (Nevermind the fact that a monarchy allows a Communist party to be elected ). No-one invades, provides support for anti-communists or even objects. Relations stay rosy with everyone. Life continues as normal.

What should happen in the event of a Communist revolution, is that all the GPs should get an event to choose whether to intervene, and declare a war that as part of the peace deal should allow for the restoration of a non-socialist government. To counter this, the said Communist country should be able to use it's vast legions of the working class to work as both craftsmen/labourers/farmers and as soldier POPs (possibly converting all of the working class POPs into temporarily "revolutionary" POPs?)

 

[unmerged(41229)]

Between conservative and liberal. I want to keep historical events!

(Hard core American liberal in politics).

 

[Merrick Chance']

Well, there's a difference between the Russian revolution, which came later, and the Mexican revolution, which few countries intervened in. I think that if a country with really high prestige goes communist, then it'll have the option of becoming the 'figurehead of communism' or something like that, and that's when you get other countries intervening.

Also, Anarcho-Liberalism should be changed to Radical Liberalism, but there is a pretty good precedent for radical liberal dictatorships, for instance in Japan and in Latin America.

 

[unmerged(148761)]

I'd rather see that as a separate indicator. Largely because 'nationalism' took many forms. That is, rather being a distinct ideology in its own right, every one of the existing political categories has some nationalist variant. So you'd get 'conservative nationalists', 'liberal nationalists', 'fascist nationalists', etc. In Weimar Republic these would be the DNVP, DVP, and NSDAP respectively

It might be better to either leave nationalism as a political issue or modify 'consciousness' to account for it. Perhaps using two categories - 'national consciousness' and 'class consciousness' or making them opposing poles on the same meter. That way socialist POPs that have high national consciousness will either vote for a social nationalist party (such as the Polish Socialist Party or Irish Labour Party) or switch their loyalty to a liberal-nationalist party, for example

Come to think of it, isn't that how its already handled? A POP with low consciousness is more likely to vote for parties on the basis of single issues... such as citizenship policies

Agreed that it should be a seperate issue: nationalism on the part of a state culture should naturally lead to supporting the government's expansionist policies, hardline initiatives, etc. Nationalism on the part of a minority group should lead to seperatism. The Home Rule debate is an example: both sides were highly "nationalist"

 

[Barón Rojo]

My two cents:

Radicalism
Social democrats (post-Eduard Bernstein socialists)
Socialists
Communists
Anarchists

 

[hyme]

-Technocratic i dont know what thats supposed to be...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

 

[Orinsul]

Nationalism doesnt exactly stand apart though, I mean if Nationalists were a seperate ideolgy than say Fascists it really would make sense and given the time period, take france at the time of the Dreyfus affair for example find a damn man in the lot who wasnt and that wouldnt have stopped his liberalism or reactionary views from keeping a hold on him.
Nationalism could be a nation value that rises and falls, like prestige that has an effect on the nation or something but not an ideology.
And Anarchism certainly not, they are a fringe. [and the spanish anarchist arent anarchists in the sense of the late 1800s but rather socialists or maybe communists depending on which branch they came from fragmented as they were.] You wouldnt have terrorist as an ideology today. And the same for anarchism goes for Technocrats only worse, its not a serious possibility.