[Megathread] Golden Century - is this it?

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mag_zbc

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It's just irritating to see people jumping easily on hate trains while they maybe put in like 500-2500 hours into the game.
maybe 2500 hours - you don't think that playing a game for 2500 hours earns one a right to voice criticism? How many hours do, what does an instruction manual say about that?

And people are not hating Paradox, people are starting to get irritated with EU4 DLC policy and the direction the development is going in. The vast majority of community praises Paradox for changes they done for CK2 in Holy Fury and brave decisions and complete re-design of features that weren't working well in Stellaris that are due in Megacorp. So it shows that Paradox is perfectly able to still make great DLCs for their games - only, for some reason, they no longer want to for EU4.
 

zorkman

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You really liked those early expansions, because EUIV was a massive pile of garbage at release. It had a hook that was good enough for all of us. But it was a terrible game with terrible BS limitations. Limitations that were so incredibly dumb and restricted game play in so many ways that you all are colored by nostalgia about the fixing of those things. Upset that the problems of today aren't so easily fixable, so we have content instead of making what was a terrible game not terrible.

It was very playable on release & during the first year. Probably upset you as you had to actually think & plan more to take over the world, certainly on patches 1.2, 1.3 & original 1.6. The worst thing what ever happened to this game was allowing the World Conbore brigade to twist Paradox's arm to make the game easier. Now it is a right mess.
 
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Van Kasten

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go write down a fully constructed suggestion which YOU would like to see in game

Ehm... Have you visited the Suggestion Subforum?

And before you say “Yes I went there once and saw nothing of the sort”, have you tried to search for the good suggestions?
 

Zephyrum

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I do this every time when something pops into my mind and well, I got to see many DLC's coming up which I highly appreciate and I'm sure it had something to do with my effort to write down suggestions on the suggestion forum. And no, I'm not talking about *title suggestion* *Paradox make this better or create something like this* NO, give Paradox the exact lay out where to build from and then you might expect something in return in the future.

What if I already have, including even specific value AND offering to code in the changes I suggested at times, both for small balance changes and somewhat major changes to chains or national ideas?

Because frankly, if you think the people "whining" are lurkers who show up for that sole purpose, and not actually people who contributed in many ways, from constructive discussions, through suggestions and into modding, I recommend you take another look around.
 
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Atilla 'The Hun'

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you don't think that playing a game for 2500 hours earns one a right to voice criticism?.

Of course I do but the way how it is done is disgusting. Calling out Paradox for garbage, sell-outs or even idiots for almost some years now is not normal, don't you think so? It can be done in a civilized manner. People pop out insulting banners once they see the hate train moving along, I think that those kind of 'protests' should stop, especially in a Paradox community.

And people are not hating Paradox, people are starting to get irritated with EU4 DLC policy and the direction the development is going in.

Me too!? I'm getting irritated as well but what can I do? Pop out insulting banners and tell them they are garbage? No man, tell why you are irritated and what you would like to see get better next time. That is a right way to indicate your opinion don't you agree ?

So it shows that Paradox is perfectly able to still make great DLCs for their games - only, for some reason, they no longer want to for EU4.

Maybe they need time? Better planning? I don't know man, patience & keep telling them what you would like to see, trust me they are watching the forums as long as you keep it normal.
 

misiceman

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Look I love this game as much as anyone and I too have a boat load of hours..... BUT to reasonably think that a game can hold ones attention for 10k+ hours, heck even 1k+ hours I think is a stretch in this day of gaming (to be fair the learning curve in this game can be up to 200 hours lol). There is a lot of choice (and a lot of good games) and I have to say for me what has changed is I am willing to bounce between games a lot more and actually makes me appreciate the campaigns I play in EU4 more. Its very refreshing to come back to EU4 when i do and its generally after a patch or dlc for 1-3 campaigns then i move on (at around 50-100 hours per campaign mind you). This is true for both Stellairs and EU4 which are the PDX titles i play the most.

Back to the main point:

Are there issues yeah.... quite a few. What really needs to happen is a large DLC so they can rework base mechanics in the free patch. Stellaris proved it can be done (and i think done again with Megacorps in a few days). CK2 is showing it can be done in an older franchise with lots of dlc and lots of feature bloat. What's needed is a good chunk of Dev time devoted to reworking and maybe integrating old stuff from Art of War and prior (or pick your starting point), which would probably help newer players jump in as well. As some one who owns all the game play DLC i dont care about the older stuff being integrated into a "gold edition" patch after this many years.

A longer dev cycle to actually make tackling these issues (and maybe patience from the community) will probably be the thing they need most, and in the meantime we get smaller DLCs with fun features to flesh out parts of the world. But the fact is they CANNOT please everyone and not everyone agrees on what needs to be done exactly.... ok maybe everyone can agree on AI. :p

On to the point of toxicity.... I would ask this question: Would you (this is aimed at no one in specific but I think that gets the point across) listen to some one talking to you that way or actively try to avoid it. Being constructive doesn't mean you have to write a novel (which i do way to often in these forums - evidenced by this post and many... MANY others), but treating people with respect goes a long way to getting someone to listen to you even if you disagree with them (I would argue this is ESPECIALLY true when you disagree). And I have to say PDX actually does listen to the constructive feedback (just look at Japan as one of my fav examples - another being loads of stuff from the Iberian threads that have popped up the last couple months before this dlc was even announced) but they arnt going to reply to every single persons post, even the good ones. Just the act of posting in a thread by a dev or CM can derail it completely.

Wall of text over...for now.... gonna find more coffee...
 

Jywert

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There is lot of anger/disappointment on the forums. And many times it comes out as short burst of non-decency. As Eu4 is one of kind game, and many people have invest lot in to the game. Time and money, they want it become better and succeed, I almost would compare it to a friend or family member that does some questionable choices and you try to warn them. They listen but do it anyway. Still need to learn by making mistakes and their own choices. And many times the risk is right one. To learn by doing. Paradox is one that is has the choice. And developers need time to develop their own skills. You cannot teach creativity. Only by doing you can get better. If you just do as you are told you know how to but you don't know why do it.

There is no real need for eu5 if thing could be changed. I just don't know how much could this done without stepping on the quite long legacy of the game and the features it has added and the lead developers as it has changed hands many times. Like estates were added to base game but not really changed.

And I still remember that they don't have clear vision what eu5 would be and what it would include and disclude. And it can be nice to be able to do small things to add and not worry overall game balance every single time. And it's expensive to make new games. As they fail 50% of time at least.

Eu4 needs an overhaul or consolation of vision. As its going bit in every direction. This is fine if you rp and set your own goals. Wide but shallow. But I don't think they are going to do it yet. As the player base is still growing. Meaby in year or two. Don't know how the dlc are doing thought. Like those who own the base game how many own all the dlc? 50% 25%?

My suggestion as "only" have played 2529 hours of eu4. I know it's not that much compared to the amount some have
I would slash all old dlc in to base game and combine left flavor content in to dlc in to some kind of packs. what would cost 5 to 20 euros each. But don't know the sales figures for the old dlc. As the player base is still growing. So it means people get the base game and most likely get the old dlc. So would probably lose money.
Then one could expand on the dlc added features as they are in base game.

Still would hope to get development, trade and army/merch overhaul. As now almost too much gold. Merchs quite strong. Did one time try that merch dont get your

Did one points got idea of having development be directly connect to trade,taxes and armies. Like some mods have the mil dev as the base for adm and dip dev. And the new Stellaris update. Some of vic2 and Imperium. But without having full out pops and keeping the development system.
So you have mil as "manpower" They you would use development as armies and if you don't have opportunities to use manpower as your land is too poor or developed enough to support more adm or dip dev. Times are hard(devastation) you would lose mil dev.But if your dev is low it would rebound more quickly. So mercenaries would be formed from the unused mil pops that can't find spot. 1618-1640 40 000 Scot males were mercenaries in mainland europe what was 15% male adult population.

So province like London has 5 adm slots and 10 dip slots gets 25 mil dev in 50 years. It could support 10 mil units if you don't use em or you don't have room they would become mercenaries/bandits/privateers/local nobeles armies(more autonomy for non centralised nations?)/colonist/explorer/trader/conquistadors.
This would allow mercenary price to lower and make warfare more cheap that could increase war and devastation in the world. You would need to choose what kind of army you have . And could be like merch "hotspots" This nation is known for hiring mercenaries.

"Only" real problems is merch "spam" at the moment. It bit funny as it feels that merc spam is not so bad as there is more gold in the game after Dharma. So even midsize nations can merch up. Still hope that one day you could throw money at the opponents army and have chance of them defecting.
Meaby one nerf could be that merchs don't get the nations army modifiers?
 

Martynios

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You know what also a big problem is regarding EU IV, it's toxic community.

Why are people complaining more and more every time they get to see another DLC which they do not like and prefer something more in there own interest? If you are so obsessed with Italy, the HRE or 'reworking core mechanics' well first and foremost have patience and second go write down a fully constructed suggestion which YOU would like to see in game and don't expect the devs to come up with 100% favorable mechanics.
I do this every time when something pops into my mind and well, I got to see many DLC's coming up which I highly appreciate and I'm sure it had something to do with my effort to write down suggestions on the suggestion forum. And no, I'm not talking about *title suggestion* *Paradox make this better or create something like this* NO, give Paradox the exact lay out where to build from and then you might expect something in return in the future.

I'm sick and tired of this childish behavior, act as decent community member. Many of you complain how Paradox lost it's backbones but some of this community are the exact reason why Paradox is losing it's backbones, you should help them by giving idea's rather then complaining about your personal nonsense.
Absolute shitloads of constructive suggestions have been written. The issue is they’re not being used.
 
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Jywert

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Short the stock?

Just buy them out. But really stock would need to crash for anything to change. And Paradox finance seems to be in quite good order. As they have done investments in last few years and paid them. So they should start see return in the following years.

I think now could be good time to buy as the stock will most likely go up next year. With new releases and new announcements.
 

Alaitoc

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I am kinda sad no developper has responded to this thread yet. I would really appreciate some acknowledgement that they have heard our concerns at least.

I didn't really expect any dev to make a response, since that would just be one guy sticking their neck out for the team. Higher-ups or the rest of the team might not like their response, or they might say something which gets them abuse from the community. I've been harsh in this thread but I can understand why nobody would respond. It would be very risky for any given individual to respond without much potential gain.

What I do expect is that in the near future there will be some kind of official statement made on the current state or direction of the game. Even that probably won't happen, though.
 

Shoo

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this thread summarises my thoughts very nicely, EU4 is at the stage were it's so cluttered that the devs seem to be struggling to change anything without a huge knockon effect which produces a broken game, so hence they revert to very simple "mechanics" that they can effectively paste over the current code (think the tri-buttons). maybe EUV isn't necessary, maybe the dev team just needs to take some time to go through all the code and sort it out, it doesn't help that there are new people working on it too, as code can be a pain to understand to the person who didn't write it even if it's simple to the person who did
 

ᛒᛖᚱᛋᛖᚱᚲ

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this thread summarises my thoughts very nicely, EU4 is at the stage were it's so cluttered that the devs seem to be struggling to change anything without a huge knockon effect which produces a broken game, so hence they revert to very simple "mechanics" that they can effectively paste over the current code (think the tri-buttons). maybe EUV isn't necessary, maybe the dev team just needs to take some time to go through all the code and sort it out, it doesn't help that there are new people working on it too, as code can be a pain to understand to the person who didn't write it even if it's simple to the person who did

Whatever the solution is, it doesn't need to be one that requires us to spend more money on EU4. That ship has sailed.
 
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Slime99

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If it'd be the time we should give some time for I:R and potentially Vicky 3 to breath and alongside that have some smaller DLCs for EU4 and bring it slowly to rest. And technically, I:R is a sequal of EU:R, so it is in a way the next upcoming EU game, while not under the same title.
 

Lor360

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Its my understanding that the "vision" for this game is that EU4 has too many artists employed and very little programers, so they prefer making DLCs with as little mechanics as possible. A developer said it (more diplomaticaly) a few weeks ago.
 

Will Steel

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Personally, I absolutely love Dharma and everything that came with it. Unlike others, I found it perfect and long awaited.

But aside from that, I do feel that EU4 is running out of ways to implement ideas, without heavily abstracting them into obnoxious mana system which ultimately makes those ideas unfunny in practice and loses the original purpose of being added in the first place.

The biggest issue is that they aren't adding features that could actually work out realistic and well. EU3 actually had population system (with integrated manpower count) in it for example - they abstracted it down to those three mana powers. EU3 actually had better trade simply because it wasn't hardcoded to flow in one direction only. Marching into Russia during winter, especially in mods, slowed your army down and eroded it to the point that you had to run back, whereas despite multiple additions climate only matters in some areas in EU4. Manpower took a generation to recover like real life, whereas you can have a hundred thousand men wiped out and back by 8-10 years.

The second biggest issue is that even if they do add features, they aren't coherent and don't integrate well with each other. Corruption was the worst addition that did nothing except be a pain, while also not actually adding much of substance. Religions are turning fast into "go into this window and click that button every few years for bonus". You can do things that you couldn't do either in real life or in previous EU games so easily - change entire cultures en-masse or turn a foreign land into your capital homeland and such, simply by spending some magic mana.

It has turned into a game where much of the time, you are playing a mana manager rather than a semi-historic simulation strategy game it used to be. When you aren't watching out for mana, you are watching out for some abstract number like "I want +5% discipline so I can create those space marines". I think those achievement-hunting zero-immersion powergamers may or may not have played a factor in turning the game into this.

There is entire threads simply listing what the people want most - features that make the game realistic and immersive, without actually turning into one more mana to watch out for or another button to click every 5 years. There is even call for something that mods managed to implement, like population, realistic natural disasters like floods/tsunamis/volcanic eruptions, realistic military management, navies that actually matter...and Paradox is not adding any such requested features.

I love the idea of a pirate republic and flagships. I love the music they add each time. But they won't do much because naval gameplay remains stale and sometimes entirely not worth getting into. Unlike real life where having a navy was a major goal for every country worth its salt. Battles both on sea and land are still boring - you can spend an hour renaming your regiments and ships and they get wiped out in minutes. Small nations who packed a huge punch simply by building large fleets (Cyprus, Knights of Malta/Rhodes, myriads of nations in Asia etc.) simply cannot do so because this game has overpowered the big nations a tad bit too much.

When and if there is an EU5, I want it to be designed ground-up without the mana, and not take things right as they stand in EU4. Remember - EU4 itself was a very modernized, improved version of EU3 at release (and did it very successfully). But that formula can only be used so many times before it becomes stale. EU3 was a step up from EU2 with a big difference from the very roots. Same should happen with EU4 to EU5.

I have nothing against this DLC and I find it nice (just an immersion pack after all), but I do wish for a change in overall development for this game in regards to feature integration and mana.
 
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grommile

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The biggest issue is that they aren't adding features that could actually work out realistic and well. EU3 actually had population system (with integrated manpower count) in it for example - they abstracted it down to those three mana powers.
EU3 had a godawful wreck of a population system whose passing I still cannot quite believe anyone actually mourns when not wearing nostalgia goggles...
EU3 actually had better trade simply because it wasn't hardcoded to flow in one direction only.
Trade didn't flow at all :p
Marching into Russia during winter, especially in mods, slowed your army down and eroded it to the point that you had to run back, whereas despite multiple additions climate only matters in some areas in EU4.
Climate mattered more in early versions of EU4. Unfortunately, it mattered so much that - to be honest, just like in EU3 - the AI couldn't cope.
Manpower took a generation to recover like real life, whereas you can have a hundred thousand men wiped out and back by 8-10 years.
Unless you've somehow reached +400% Manpower Recovery Speed, manpower recovers slower in EU4 than in any version of EU3 except Divine Wind 5.2 :)

Mercenaries (which were mostly-unusable garbage in EU3), alas, make a complete mockery of the manpower system.
The second biggest issue is that even if they do add features, they aren't coherent and don't integrate well with each other.
That, I will agree with.