Megathread: Ahistorical Nations
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I'll drink to that man! ;D
Still, the Bulgarians are one of the rare peoples in these parts (indeed, the only other Slavic nation if I'm not mistaken) that have professed to call themselves an empire!
Such people rarely have a tendency to unite with their "ethnic brothers" or neighbors eh? :rofl:
Ah yes. Russia was actually not that bad till the soviets came. Doing bad things in name of good ideals is wrong. But imperial Russia was just that. An empire, and I can't think of any hardcore things like the Soviets doing you know what in Ukraine.
But that's not the subject. The first Russian supported Bulgaria was HUGE. The second was much smaller. So let's say the Russians support Bulgaria and go to war making WWI come early. So lets say they win. So why not make a super Bulgaria controlling the balkans. And the bulgars would be as serbs in Yugoslavia. Dominant. Making them join Russia completely would be veeery hard, but a puppet is by all means possible. North join Russia proper, so Poland, Bohemia. And we've got a nation that is by all means a pan-slavic one, as it controls Bulgaria as a puppet. So why not say Russia makes a gamble for it and makes a Slavic empire? They could quickly take the balkan nation as its their puppet and with enough "persauding" the people would acccept them as overlords.
Two nations explained at one go.
But that's not the subject. The first Russian supported Bulgaria was HUGE. The second was much smaller. So let's say the Russians support Bulgaria and go to war making WWI come early. So lets say they win. So why not make a super Bulgaria controlling the balkans. And the bulgars would be as serbs in Yugoslavia. Dominant. Making them join Russia completely would be veeery hard, but a puppet is by all means possible. North join Russia proper, so Poland, Bohemia. And we've got a nation that is by all means a pan-slavic one, as it controls Bulgaria as a puppet. So why not say Russia makes a gamble for it and makes a Slavic empire? They could quickly take the balkan nation as its their puppet and with enough "persauding" the people would acccept them as overlords.
Two nations explained at one go.
Indeed, why not? But that's not what we were talking about, is it?
I could write the exact same post you did, but instead of "Bulgaria" write "Kenya" and it would still be pretty much the same contextually - you're talking about subjugation and military conquest. I believe the original discussion was about peaceful unification via ideology (Pan-Slavism: the South Slavic version), not war. Especially given all the Yugoslavia references... consummatum est
Peaceful unification via ideology is a pipe dream, it's not like the european countries could just band together and form a federation.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh, and I should probably elaborate the "peaceful unification" part of my post, given all the previous hair-splitting... I meant between the Slavs in the whole Pan-Slavism business, not between Slavs and their eventual current overlords (Austrians, Ottomans etc...) preventing them from uniting in a federation of Slavic or Balkan peoples...
The original discussion was about ahistorical countries, not about peaceful unification nor about nature of Russians, Bulgarians , Croats, Czechs or Poles....
Maybe it would be better to close the thread, it is trurly worm-can...
Maybe it would be better to close the thread, it is trurly worm-can...
The original discussion was about ahistorical countries, not about peaceful unification nor about nature of Russians, Bulgarians , Croats, Czechs or Poles....
Maybe it would be better to close the thread, it is trurly worm-can...
I'm inclined to agree, almost every hypothetical suggesiton has been made and it seems to be turning into a nationalist flame fest
The time frame for this game is the 19th century not the second half of the twentieth century, so yeah, it is a pipe dream.
I'd like to dig up one trenchant comment that I think deserves a response, as it seems likely that the thread is not long for this vale of tears.
I think there are two reasons why they might be needed. First, Communist revolutions typically turned a country's social and foreign relations upside down. Second, and more importantly, a great number of communist countries existed alongside the original government for decades: Germany, China, Korea, Vietnam. Granted, in Our Time-Line, this started to happen about a decade after the game ends, but I don't see a reason that Russia couldn't have set up satellites sooner, or that revolutions couldn't have spread elsewhere sooner.
I also endorse the notion of having some control over the borders of a puppet state you release. A reasonably simple solution might be: rump state consisting only of the capital and provinces no other nation has a core on, historical borders, or a Greater X containing all provinces the nation claims (and that are held by either the releasing power or the parties in the peace negotiation).
Very much looking forward to the game. Can't wait to see which nations made it in, and which ones the modders will handle.
I think there are two reasons why they might be needed. First, Communist revolutions typically turned a country's social and foreign relations upside down. Second, and more importantly, a great number of communist countries existed alongside the original government for decades: Germany, China, Korea, Vietnam. Granted, in Our Time-Line, this started to happen about a decade after the game ends, but I don't see a reason that Russia couldn't have set up satellites sooner, or that revolutions couldn't have spread elsewhere sooner.
I also endorse the notion of having some control over the borders of a puppet state you release. A reasonably simple solution might be: rump state consisting only of the capital and provinces no other nation has a core on, historical borders, or a Greater X containing all provinces the nation claims (and that are held by either the releasing power or the parties in the peace negotiation).
Very much looking forward to the game. Can't wait to see which nations made it in, and which ones the modders will handle.
Having rebel states for civil wars or the likes of the red break-aways from germany should be included but not limited to communism, the eastern communist breakaway could be covered by brandenburg with a communist state and the same with bavaria or possibly germany, france, england and russia obviously could be the exceptions with seperate communist states but other wise its limiting and over complicated.
But on the whole generic is better so it could be anarcho-liberal or reactionary civil wars too, or even conservative now that i come to think about.
Anyway why i logged in.
IF Victoria II has cultural primary revolter states as in EU:IN then for Africa their could be Colonial Release States, Rhodesia, and all the others i described a good long time ago, one TAG for every african State or Region, for dominions and free colonies, with countries for the various african races, so that a Colonial Lead revolt or Government headed release would be the child of Empire state while a black rebellion would create a black state based on nationality of the revolters, Rhodesia if the Colonials free the nation or Zimbabwe if the blacks do.
Based on lines on the map for the Colonials and for Race for the native states. One system cant do two things, but two can.
But on the whole generic is better so it could be anarcho-liberal or reactionary civil wars too, or even conservative now that i come to think about.
Anyway why i logged in.
IF Victoria II has cultural primary revolter states as in EU:IN then for Africa their could be Colonial Release States, Rhodesia, and all the others i described a good long time ago, one TAG for every african State or Region, for dominions and free colonies, with countries for the various african races, so that a Colonial Lead revolt or Government headed release would be the child of Empire state while a black rebellion would create a black state based on nationality of the revolters, Rhodesia if the Colonials free the nation or Zimbabwe if the blacks do.
Based on lines on the map for the Colonials and for Race for the native states. One system cant do two things, but two can.
I'd like to remind my idea of a nation uniting all muslims, named Caliphate. It might have gone unnoticed.
And another nation, Westphalia. Just in case Napoleon III won his war with Prussia.
And the colonial release states would be great.
PS. Vaus - The ones that want it, want it. So what do they care if it's only possible by war? Unless the discussion was between you and people wanting a peacefull unification. If that is it, I'm sorry as I haven't read the whole discussion.
Enough of me in this discussion, all next posts will about new nations I think it would be fun playing.
And another nation, Westphalia. Just in case Napoleon III won his war with Prussia.
And the colonial release states would be great.
PS. Vaus - The ones that want it, want it. So what do they care if it's only possible by war? Unless the discussion was between you and people wanting a peacefull unification. If that is it, I'm sorry as I haven't read the whole discussion.
Enough of me in this discussion, all next posts will about new nations I think it would be fun playing.
I think we should have Taiping Kingdom, Lanfang Republic and Republic of Taiwan, and all provinces of China. It is because the Republic of China was a union of independence provinces at first. ROC was once called the United Provinces of China.
Well, I see two ways of doing this "job". We can take every piece of land and create nation from it, because we could create some story to justify everything. No matter how that story will be crazy.
(Like Western slavs, but Czech, ak Bohemia, has mutch longer cultural history with germans countries, 1600 years old story about ethnic origin is nothing you can build at.)
Or we could play on science, be deterministic, study history and think of realy possible nations, that could occur. That wouldn't be only some "generic nations" but will have some sort of historic fluff inside.
(Like Western slavs, but Czech, ak Bohemia, has mutch longer cultural history with germans countries, 1600 years old story about ethnic origin is nothing you can build at.)
Or we could play on science, be deterministic, study history and think of realy possible nations, that could occur. That wouldn't be only some "generic nations" but will have some sort of historic fluff inside.
White Russia? Let's see... mass murders, government sponsored anti-semitism, ignored famines, imperialist wars which they drafted for, imprisoning dissidents and then torturing them, ethnic cleansing of minorities, etc
Red Russia? Homosexuality legalized, anti-semitism and racism ruthlessly stamped out, abortion legalized, full rights to women, etc.
Mind you all of those things were reversed once Stalin stole control, but the fact remains that you are taking out of your ass here.
While I agree with literally every word of that, I really think this thread should be locked, at least for a while it's not serving its purpose for the last 5 pages.
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