Megathread: Ahistorical Nations

[unmerged(81228)]

But what rules will govern such combined country? What ethnicities will be considered as full citizens? All? Only the original one? Or new one is created and gradually replaces old ones?

Yes, they are definitly issues which should be considered. I think it should be, at least at some part, up to a player. Who should be allowed to add country cultures in some circumstances - for example 'minority'>...%, full citizenship party in power perhaps...

 

[unmerged(135996)]

The Slavic countries might have better chance of unification, but not with the rest of the countries: Albania, Greece, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.

lol.
Do you really think, that Bulgaria is NOT a Slavic country?

 

[curtis]

lol.
Do you really think, that Bulgaria is NOT a Slavic country?

Prove him wrong instead of scoffing and acting haughty.

Last thing this forum needs is a degenerative "discussion" over the Balkans. Anyone who remembers the EU series can attest to that.

 

[Rouge666]

ahistorical

and what about République du Québec? A part of British Empire and Dominion of Canada later... it has been conquered by the british in 1763 but they tried a revolution in 1836-37 called ''La Révolte des Patriotes''. It always had a seperatist and nationalist movement in Québec, supported mainly and strongly by the francophones.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Prove him wrong instead of scoffing and acting haughty.

Last thing this forum needs is a degenerative "discussion" over the Balkans. Anyone who remembers the EU series can attest to that.

Well to be fair Bulgaria is Slavic by any measure.

 

[LeeDub]

Here we enter into an absurd, possibly ridiculous realm of what-ifs and whatnot. It is a perilous journey, fraught with nationalism and delusions of grandeur. Not everyone will come back unscathed, if at all.

The problem is, of course, the very nature of non-nation states. Yugoslavia, A-H, UK, each is different, each formed for different reasons. The possibilities are essentially endless here. Whether by inheritance, conquest, diplomacy or external circumstances, "weird" hybrid nations could form, and today we could be sitting here debating: "Austria-Hungary?! What a ridiculous idea! Could never happen, totally different people, hate each other blabla" while reading about possible croat secession in the "Slavia Daily" newspaper.

It's fantasy land and it's very hard to draw a line somewhere and stick to it. I'd suggest states purely by nationality, but I absolutely love forming countries in Paradox games, so I'm going to miss the possible fantasy states.

 

[unmerged(135996)]

Prove him wrong instead of scoffing and acting haughty.

Last thing this forum needs is a degenerative "discussion" over the Balkans. Anyone who remembers the EU series can attest to that.

Why I should prove nonsense?

 

[unmerged(135996)]

"Austria-Hungary?! What a ridiculous idea! Could never happen, totally different people, hate each other blabla" while reading about possible croat secession in the "Slavia Daily" newspaper.

There was not Austria-Hungary in meaning ''confederacy of states'' like Yugoslavia. In fact, there was big, angry Austria and fighting for freedom Hungary.

 

[Bezborg]

Why I should prove nonsense?

It's not nonsense if you really read the post you're criticizing. He didn't say that Bulgaria is not a Slavic country but that the Slavic nations of the Balkans would never unite with Greece and Bulgaria in a Balkan super-state, which is perhaps the only historic fact that can't be ignored while thinking about a Balkan fantasy unification project. There is no way in a cold hell that Bulgaria would ever unite in a federation of Balkan peoples, which would be beyond question if you knew anything about Balkan, South Slavic, Pan-Slavic, Bulgarian or whichever history you want.

 

[unmerged(135996)]

It's not nonsense if you really read the post you're criticizing. He didn't say that Bulgaria is not a Slavic country but that the Slavic nations of the Balkans would never unite with Greece and Bulgaria in a Balkan super-state, which is perhaps the only historic fact that can't be ignored while thinking about a Balkan fantasy unification project. There is no way in a cold hell that Bulgaria would ever unite in a federation of Balkan peoples, which would be beyond question

:rofl:
Word ''Slavic'' mean ''Slavic'', not ''former Yugoslavian''.

if you knew anything about Balkan, South Slavic, Pan-Slavic, Bulgarian or whichever history you want.

Is this insult?

 

[Vesimir]

......

Tell me... If Yugoslavia was possible, why a confederation of all Balkans would be impossible? And if it was included, it wouldn't annoy you as it would have no possibility of appering without help of the player, and it would please the ones that want it by being there.

And if you couldn't play the game because you would be thinking about "IT being there", I suggest to sit down, count to ten, and think about yourself.

PS. Saying to a Russian that he doesn't know ANYTHING about slavic people and such things as Pan-Slavism.... It's like telling a french man he doesn't know anything about... I don't know, Napoleon. I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[unmerged(135996)]

PS. Saying to a Russian that he doesn't know ANYTHING about slavic people and such things as Pan-Slavism.... It's like telling a french man he doesn't know anything about... I don't know, Napoleon. I hope you understand what I mean.

He is Croatian, they ever hates Orthodox people - Serbs, and, espesially, their defenders and friends - Russians...

 

[LeeDub]

There was not Austria-Hungary in meaning ''confederacy of states'' like Yugoslavia. In fact, there was big, angry Austria and fighting for freedom Hungary.

Yet it is commonly known as Austria-Hungary and has a nice flag in Vicky.

 

[unmerged(135996)]

Yet it is commonly known as Austria-Hungary and has a nice flag in Vicky.

Formally it was ''confederacy of states'', but... Yes! Emperor was crowned in 1847 by the crown of saint Stephen to prevent Magyar revolution.
But if it was really Austria-Hungary - why Hungarians declared their independence after WWI?

 

[exenter]

lol.
Do you really think, that Bulgaria is NOT a Slavic country?

Bulgarians are a mix of Byzantine populations, Bulgars (Turkic) and Slavic people. Some historians believe they are Scytians. All the Bulgarians I've met doesn't consider themselves as Slavic at all. Have you even seen Bulgarians? They look more like Greeks or Turks than Slavs.

 

[Bezborg]

PS. Saying to a Russian that he doesn't know ANYTHING about slavic people and such things as Pan-Slavism.... It's like telling a french man he doesn't know anything about... I don't know, Napoleon. I hope you understand what I mean.

Well obviously he truly doesn't no ENOUGH about LOCAL Pan-Slavism (perhaps we have finally come to the level of specification required for successful communication) to feel insulted by an implication that Bulgaria wouldn't have joined any federation of Balkan peoples via Pan-Slavic ideology within that time-frame, given the mentality of the times and the Bulgarian people - in relation to their Balkan neighbors. Members of peoples that later formed Yugoslavia had no such reservations for mutual unification AT THE TIME. You might ask me why is that, but we might as well go back to the "knowledge of local history" argument from before... Reading history books on the subject would be a more productive use of time and energy at this point. In a nut shell - Bulgarians have pretty much always sought imperial glory at the expense of peaceful co-existence with their Balkan neighbors, Slavic or otherwise... much like the Russians as I understand?

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Bulgarians are a mix of Byzantine populations, Bulgars (Turkic) and Slavic people. All the Bulgarians I've met doesn't consider themselves as Slavic at all. Have you even seen Bulgarians? They look more like Greeks or Turks than Slavs.

You need to meet more Bulgarians. :wacko:

 

[LeeDub]

why Hungarians declared their independence after WWI?

True, bo Yugoslavia also fell apart and Ireland broke off the UK. The ability to survive does not define a country, just a succesful one.

 

[Bezborg]

He is Croatian, they ever hates Orthodox people - Serbs, and, espesially, their defenders and friends - Russians...

lol? the catholic-orthodox schism is a bit more extensive to put in such modest nationalistic terms?

btw my great-great-grandfather was a hero of the Revolution, and I have a medal to prove it

 

[exenter]

You need to meet more Bulgarians. :wacko:

Excuse me? Are you saying I'm lying?