Megastructures - One time use builder vessels

[Dalinski]

I was hoping megastructures might be built by building a super construction ship in a space port and then having that super construction ship travel to the location of the megastructure, be expended and contribute to the building progress.

Why?

- Gives more of a feeling that your nation is contributing to the construction effort
- Gives other nations more of an opportunity to stop you building it by destroying the super construction ships
- Gives the player the feeling they are in fact building something special.

 

[DukeLeto42]

I'd prefer it if instead of forcing a separate megastructure constructor ship type, starting a megastructure (probably not habitats, but the true megastructures) consumed the construction ship that starts the project -- it would reflect that in order to make this project occur, you need to dedicate a construction ship to its progress for years (and probably continue to require the ship for the megastructure's continued maintenance even after it is finished). Besides, when first starting construction, you still have a long (probably years, based on the stream) period of time to attack and shoot down the construction ship in order to interrupt the construction.

Plus, it'd give me a way to use those construction ships I inherit from incorporated vassals....

Edit:

Addendum to this: perhaps you could have to dedicate a fully upgraded spaceport to support the construction effort, or at least construction past the first stage of the project (which already has a cost -- that of the construction ship -- and would be building the frame instead of the complex systems that might require a spaceport dedicated to the effort)? That would reflect having to use specialized national resources to build megastructures, especially if you could only use core system spaceports.

 

[Drowe]

Considering the size of projects such as ringworlds and dyson spheres, it would make sense to require an enourmous amount of resources and production capacity on a continuous basis. I think it should require both regular and special ships to construct, the latter actually becoming part of the structure itself, thus being consumed. Additionally this should tie up production capacity, so you need to decide whether to build warships or parts of the megastructure in any given spaceport. To make it even more of a challenge, you could also have the project decay at a constant rate until it is completed, this could for example only happen while you don't have at least one construction ship advancing the project, or it could be decaying whether you work on it or not (thus simulating maintanance cost while under construction). Of course it should not be possible to decay completely, instead I would propose that it slowly reverts to the last completed stage.

A constant decay (even while you are constructing) would give an incentive to dedicate as much resources as you can to the project, since the faster you build, the less resources are wasted through decay. On the otherhand it would mean, a smaller empire would have to actually invest more resources to build such a structure than a big empire, both in absolute and relative terms...

 

[Me_]

Way to people try to complicate the game by making simple tasks require X more arbitrary numer of steps? About the only sensible argument would be that feeling of grandeur. There is little point in stopping anyone from finishing a megastructure, it's better to take a finished one trom them. Requiring mnovement of unitsa would result in people coompletely forgetting to proceed with the construction during war and/or rparts being randomly destroyed by minor fleets/ space creatures.

 

[laptor]

Nice idea, but would this be a true benefit?
Is there nothing more important right now?

 

[Promethian]

Isn't that how it works according the dev diary? We build a Megastructure Construction Site which then builds the megastructure we want and is consumed in the process.

 

[Drowe]

Well, that's the point, a war should delay construction or even throw it back somewhat. While you are at war you divert resources away from projects that don't help you fight and funnel it into the military.

But I do agree with you in part, the suggestion would create unnecessary micro management, which should be avoided. However building a megastructure should not only cost resources but also production capacity. So there should be a mechanic that dedicates spacedocks to produce parts for the megastructure instead of ships, thus reducing your capacity to rebuild lost ships during war and making decent progress building the megastructure at the same time. This could also be done with policies or edicts, which speed up the construction process significantly, but increase build time of ships and gives a flat negative modifyer for income of energy and minerals.

 

[HandicapdHippo]

Way to people try to complicate the game by making simple tasks require X more arbitrary numer of steps?

Far too many people think complexity is the same thing as depth and that simplicity is bad.

 

[AndragonLea]

While the realistic side in me screams out that we need specialised construction ships, a dedicated spaceport and ongoing monthly mineral and energy costs to simulate the strain on the production and infrastructure of your empire, the side of me that wants to have fun playing the game is just fine with simply ordering your construction via the constuction ship.

I'm sorry to say this, but any amount of realism attached to mega structures would probably make it impossible to construct one in competitive play. You're talking about millions of skilled and unskilled workers, entire solar systems of infrastructure and natural resources and - quite probably - generations of unceasing dedication in order to build a project of that size.

Once finished, any race that DOESN'T have one would cease to be a threat. How would you combat a race that not only has seemingly unlimited energy in the form of a dyson sphere but also an entire multi-generation population made up of nothing but specialised and dedicated engineers, architects and craftsmen ready to use said energy to build ships on a scale that would have been deemed impossible without the techniques developed to cage a star?

You'd start the project maybe 50 to 100 years in and never see it's completion. I kinda want it to be realistic, but more than that I want it to be in the game.

 

[Dalinski]

About the only sensible argument would be that feeling of grandeur.

.....that feeling to me sets that act of going for Megastructures aside from other production projects. I don't see see a nation banging out a Super Construction Vessel every two minutes for this to be 'painful'.

 

[Dalinski]

Far too many people think complexity is the same thing as depth and that simplicity is bad.

There is nothing complex about it.

 

[DukeLeto42]

There is nothing complex about it.

One of the core issues with game development, particularly one that players can be expected to play for several hundred years, is that the game needs to remain interesting and exciting the whole way through. What seems like an exciting series of steps becomes a dull process once you are producing dozens of projects at once.

To better illustrate an instance of what most of these complaints are trying to prevent, have you played Galactic Civilizations 2? Starbase construction in that game (and starbases in that game are comparatively limited in number, more like these megastructures than mining stations or starbases of Stellaris) consumes a construction ship for each addition or improvement to the station, much like you have suggested here. Sounds realistic, pretty cool, and just like you were suggesting, right? Well, once you are trying to build several starbases, you end up spending each of the in-game turns launching many ships, managing them, and sending them to their destinations just to move ahead and take the next turn. The interesting step turns into a tedious process that vastly increases the amount of time the game takes, and prevents you from enjoying the game.

Like the Civ series and many other such 4x games, late-game bogging down is a very real threat. Unlike many of these games, the developers of Stellaris are actively trying to control late-game bogging down by reducing micromanagement. This is why sectors exist, why auto-survey exists in the mid-late game (not that I personally find its mechanics ideal), and why many of the comments in this thread are questioning your suggestion. This is not to suggest your idea isn't realistic, and not to suggest that it isn't worth pursuing, but we are concerned that it will result in exactly what the game has so far worked hard to prevent.

 

[Sinister2202]

It would be a lot simpler AND feel like you are contributing, if there were upkeep of energy and minerals [on top of the base cost] during the construction of the megastructure. Can't afford it because of crisis or war? Simply order the constructors to stop and continue later. And I doubt you can finish building one as quickly as you can build a capital ship any way.

 

[grandad1982]

I thought limited use workers in civ6 would be good. Turns out I don't like them at all. Or lots of other parts of the game but that's another matter entirely.

As others have said I'd rather have a constant resource drain than the frustration (for me) of microing limited use builders.

 

[Drowe]

I think the easiest way to achieve both the realism of actually having to dedicate resources and production capacity as well as avoiding unessescary micromanagement would be by having a construction project that can be built in spaceports to advance progress of the megastructure. This shouldn't actually spawn anything and ideally queueing it once repeats the project until it's cancelled manually or the megastructure is finished. If there aren't enough resources available the project waits until the resources are available and then start.

Basically you have a choice in how many resources and production capacity you dedicate to the project and all you have to do is queue a project in various spaceports.