Megastructures in 2.2 and beyond
- Thread starter ayrton
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Well, 2.2 made planets MASSIVELY strong by virtue of all the pops they can host. So, colonizing a planet is always worthwhile even with habitability malus.
To be honest, "going wide" should, logic-wise, always be better. More territory -> more resources -> more population -> more production. The only thing restraining this process in the real world is usually infrastructure and climate: Siberia is huge and rich in resources, but it requires massive investments in infrastructures to reach and extract those, as well as massive expenditure of energy to keep people and equipment from freezing.
Stellaris as of now fails to really account for those factors: logistics are simulated through Empire Sprawl and climate by habitability, but the malus are negligible when confronted with the massive production and growth capabilities of planets. Going over cap is always a good choice, as is colonizing everything no matter what. Unless the penalties are massively increased, Wide is gonna trample Tall in the ground.
And given how many people angrily screamed at the meager malus of going over Admin Cap, it's unlikely they are raised, so...
Being an admirer of Tall play (mainly because i prefere to manage few important planets instead of many uninteresting ones), i """solved""" the issue with modding.
To be honest, "going wide" should, logic-wise, always be better. More territory -> more resources -> more population -> more production. The only thing restraining this process in the real world is usually infrastructure and climate: Siberia is huge and rich in resources, but it requires massive investments in infrastructures to reach and extract those, as well as massive expenditure of energy to keep people and equipment from freezing.
Stellaris as of now fails to really account for those factors: logistics are simulated through Empire Sprawl and climate by habitability, but the malus are negligible when confronted with the massive production and growth capabilities of planets. Going over cap is always a good choice, as is colonizing everything no matter what. Unless the penalties are massively increased, Wide is gonna trample Tall in the ground.
And given how many people angrily screamed at the meager malus of going over Admin Cap, it's unlikely they are raised, so...
Being an admirer of Tall play (mainly because i prefere to manage few important planets instead of many uninteresting ones), i """solved""" the issue with modding.
I'm not asking for tall to be better or even equally strong
I am confused why megastructures, which allowed me to stay competitive later on have been nerfed out of practicality. Habitats, dyson spheres and ringworlds are so prohibitively expensive and do not return on their costs in any meaningful way when there are strictly better options- that some playstyles have been locked out of.
Ringworlds theoretically pay back the investment massively, but especially with gestalts are impossible to build up and fill.
Reducing the alloy cost of megastructures and maybe making them cost unity or more influence and giving them a solid boost in production would go a long way- not making my playstyle stronger or better but at least somewhat survivable in intense MP games where I want to contribute more than waiting behind my forts until someone beats the crisis.
The matter decompressor is awesome but neigh unaffordable
The Dyson Sphere produces oddly low amounts of energy (to which I can't add my % bonusses)
The Ecumenopolis can generate triple that (to which you CAN add your % bonusses!)
I used to make heavy use of habitats and be a real space-borne empire, roleplaying as the Abh or The Culture
But the only use of habitats is trade value now- they've been nerfed so hard they're hardly optimal or even viable in any playstyle
Because Galactic Wonders was massively overpicked by players, Tall and Wide. I'm guessing the devs wanted people to use planets for their economy rather than rely on non-interactive space buildings.
I think going Machine-Tall is the least synergistic playstyle currently around. And that's already with both Tall play and Machine empires suffering heavily in the current patch. Pop growth is God, which Machine Empires are hard up for, and planetary resource districts are King, which a Tall will struggle for. I think the only really viable method of going Tall would be to go bonkers with trade value and then buy all the resources you ever need. Something a Machine empire can't do.
I don't know what to suggest exactly. Either go wider with your machines and get a stronger base of raw resource production, or drop the machines entirely and try and go tall with a megacorp.
The main problem is not about making tall play better, but that wide play is far too easy. The main downsides to large states throughout history are stability, bureaucratic inertia and dispersal of military forces.
Stellaris does a reasonable job of simulating the last two through Admin Cap penalties and fleet travel time, but it does next to nothing regarding stability. A large empire should require significantly more effort to keep it stable than a small one, but right now there really isn't a difference. This has been an issue since the beginning, and I don't think we will ever get to a place where tall and wide play feel right until its been properly addressed.
I find that tall is only viable if you rush tributary in the early or mid game, so you can have raw energy and mineral income.
I remember this working for me once upon a time, maybe in 1.7. But in my current game I made several tributaries and the amount of energy and minerals they gave me were next to nothing. One had oh, 25 systems and a few planets and was giving me 50 income. But my net energy income was 12,000. So he increased my income by a fraction of 1%.
I didn't make him a tributary for the income. I did it because he closed his borders to me, and because I needed that area open to my fleets and trade routes. Making him a tributary allowed me to avoid spending 800-1000 influence for his crappy systems as I didn't have influence leftover after I'd claimed his best stuff.
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I think because you played with the currently braindead AI? Because in my latest game, I used glavius mod on grand admiral, so the AI were pretty strong, and in 2400 my tributaries gave me 2500 energy and 1600 mineral. I have no megastructures at all but still able to support 5 ecumenopolis running, with 800 naval cap fleet with max tech, max basic resources.
Without them I would have been negative -1000 energy, -1000 mineral.