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BiB

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The European theatre

Here we are mouse. We have a manpower of 16K and without protection we are doomed. So we walk a diplomatic tightrope keeping good relations with just about everyone. It's our only option. Being vasslised is quite good as I'd rather not have 250K enemy soldiers on my doorstep, besides he let us keep all the Dutch cultured provinces. Furthermore 81% of my income comes from trade so giving half our tax income to France is a small price to pay. But we also try to maintain good relations with the other powers, esp in regards to the colonies. We made many an agreement with Spain and now also England. As we're now dividing up Oman we cooperate with Turkey too. Not being involved in a decades long war xure is helpful if u have 16K manpower. Xure, we joined in in the war of France versus Austria but only to get Brabant of Austria as agreed and nothing else. During the war I killed of rebels for France and gave information to Austria. We cannot afford to pick full sides. I'm xure the other players understand. We also managed to get rid of our German, lutheran province by letting it defect to Hannover whom we took it from 50 years ago. So now we have our 6 core provs and that's it. We do not expect to expand and we do not intend to give one of those 6 up. Unless 250K decide otherwise about that :D We dug ourselves in, with brandnew level 4 forts in our swampy lands and a huge fleet of our coast led by 6-5-4 admiral Tromp. Army wise, we have a small 50K, led by a 4-5-5-1 Maurits van Nassau. We also have an emergency case stash of ducats to get us thru a crisis the mercenary way. Still, good leadership will have to see us thru this predicament. Our home provinces have all the latest in technology installed up to manufactories. Even though we have cracked down to finally get some missionaries (we have catholics and muslims after all which cost quite a lot of money) we are still near the top in the tech race. Land and naval 22 each, for land one of the pace, for naval in front of the pack. Our infra tech is so so at best with only level 5 while our trade level is up to 7. Combined with our plutocratic and naval ways, not to mention our religion bonus, we have a trade income modifier of 131%. Trade empire inderdeed. Seeing we own just 6 cities at home and 6 abroad we should not depend on taxes.
 

BiB

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Game Midwaypoint Analysis

I only joined in as the Dutch in 1565 (only a short spell as France before that) but it'd be nice to have a look at the geopolictical evolutions in this game. As I see it there are 2 absolute superpowers left, namely Spain and Turkey. France isn't too far behind but was brutally crushed in the last war while the other 2 have never been defeated. As is well known Spain is THE econolmic powerhouse of the world and has managed to stay out of wars by financing otehrs to fight for him, just about always against French agression. They have colonised the vast richess of Latin America and their peaceful nature also recently brought them the HRE title, this puts them firmly in place atop the VP rankings. But then again what are VPs? FWIW Spain is leading by a huge margin over Ottomans and Austria who share 2nd and not too far behind is France. The Ottomans have expanded exponentially since the start and have been quite in recent years (well apart from taking part in the long anti France war) however they can take out Oman now and Persia with its vast manpower resources should soon be ripe for the diplo annex pluckings. Whereas Spain has the money, the Ottomans have the manpower (and still a sizeable amount of money obviously :D). France has lost its HRE possessions but still has its core and colonial empire intact to still be a considerable force. However Spain and the Ottomans working together, let alone with extra help, is a formidable coalition. It'd be interesting to see whether the unhloy alliance lasts now France has been humbled. IMO it'd be nice for the game if the suspected power vauum was used to form 2, maybe even 3 human coalitions to spice up things in the 17th century. Subtop powers are the lieks of Austria, England and Holland. Austria profited very nicely from the anti French coalition as it was able to get many German cultured lands under its rule, however can it do without the Spanish funding? England with mowers had a very capable player at the helm and it showed as much colonial progress was being made. Still I wonder if the initial ravage hasn't been too bad. Holland as described above have a lot going for them but are hampered by the one but huge fact they can't put a decent army together to save their lives iof human players come aknocking. Then there's Poland and Sweden. They had mixed leadership throughout the game. Poland was forced to ally against France after losing in a war and because they are all allies now he can't look to expand much beyond his current PLC borders and colonially it hasn't achieved anything. Only Russia is till there but there soon may be a Russian player (maybe even from Poland?). Sweden has its ups and downs but has by now managed to get its core provs and a Baltic thing going in Europe. Ad to that the fact they have nice sizeable holdings in North America and it looks quiet good, still they're not too strong in some areas which leaves them vulnerable. Getting Norway would not be bad either.

The main action the latest decades, if not century has been focused on French aggression and getting an anti French coalition going. Now France has been seriously beaten by a large coalition the stage is set for a new theme, what it'll be remains to be seen though ...

Maybe the stage shifts to teh colonial aspect. Things are getting full there and the ones left out may claim a chunk. Will Austria keep looking from the outside? Will Holland and England clash in the East Indies desptie good agreements with the Spanish and Ottomans looking in? What will happen in the balkanised North America? Spain, Holland, France, Sweden and England all ahve holdings there. The same to a lesser extent is true for Africa. The safest thing looks to be latin america due to the sheer fact that it all belongs to Spain. Xure, Brazil is Portuguese but they're a Spanish vassal.

What will happen to the HRE, Italy, the Low Countries, Scandinavia and Poland in Europe? France and Austria could be at loggerheads over the HRE and Italy or do the unthinkable and agree on a settlment to divide them. Poland could be partitioned 200 years too early by Austtria, Sweden and a new Russian player. Spain will have to find a new badboy to draw attention from itself and stay out of war. What will the Ottomans do? Will England seek to keep teh Balance of Power at all cost on teh continent like it did historically?
 

Smirfy

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Sweden 1602-20

My Regency began in 1602, I could not complain of the condition that I found Sweden, Meckleberg (COT), Gotland, Memel,Courland and Livland. A treasury of 1000GP a large army though small navy(20 ships) and couple of refinerys. In my first steps of office I fortified the Baltic Coast (first session in this game Human Poland and Austria, also human large and in control of most of Northern Germany). Looking over Europe with England shattered the balance of power had been twisted out of recognition, Spain with no overseas competitor was rich with Ulver funding An Austria/Polish Axis against France (who controlled North America).While a European war was shaping up I launched a war on Russia and was soundly beaten when Denmark entered the war and was lucky to escape with a white peace to both powers. My income was low and expansion possibilties limited. I asked for an alliance with the Ottomans but was turned down PJL obviously did not want to become embroiled in any petty wars of my makin. Meanwhile the main European war had kicked off with Damocleas holding Austria and Poland despite Spains handouts.With the war going slowly for Darthmaur's Austrians Sweden offered her services to Spain and for 2000 gp 10k troops duly embarked for the New World to join the war (also started shortly after this were infrastructure improvements and 2 weapons factories ). Trading posts were burned and undefended colonies captured a further 10k arrived to join the advance guard. This force was pursued by a stronger French Army of 30k duly reported to the courts of Europe as 60k (probably due to fog of war :D ). This Enduced another 2000gp gift from Spain and 10k troops were embarked north of the Saint Lawerence; and 2 naval factories started.( Hey! Gustavus dont come cheap also outside of Spain and Holland, Sweden had the only navy to transport any army to the States). After destroying one Swedish army Damocleas realized that without a navy he would be chasing shadows up and down the coast and sued for peace. Sweden accepted the offer as Spanish money had dried up and a weak beaten France would gift the game to Spain. Having come out of the Great Austro/Franco War in good shape I Annexed Huron to my overseas empire and Gustavus added 4 Russian Provences in short order.By this stage the Great Austro/Franco War was in the endgame and Sweden tried to influence the outcome but despite my attempts was in no position to. With England in such bad shape (no fault of Mowers) there was no counterbalance to the dual powers to exert influence. My twenty years of rule left the nation 4 European Provences 6 Colonial Provences and 6 trading posts;Four manufactuary were constructed, fortresses expanded and infrastructure generally up to full.
 
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TeutonicKnight

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I Assumed control of Poland in March of 1605 and inherited a war I had no idea about. Poland, while not actually in any danger itself, was in about as good a postion as could be asked given the situation. I was able to help Austria defend North Germany from France with the help of my 60K cav army.
In 1607 the combined Austrian/Polish contingient had efectivly blocked the French advance into Northern German, and had switched to Austria and France exchanging blows to the South and my army was just there as an emergency defense and to take care of revolters.

October 11, 1609 I dow'd on Russia because I had a CB on them and my war attrition was high eough I might as well get something out of it. I viewed the war would be short and sweet and it would allow me to snatch some precious manpower points from Russia.

The war didn't turn out exactly how I had hoped it would. It started off great with me quickly taking Kursk and Tula. I then sent my army to thier capital, however, he had a surprise for me, he had over 30k men that intercepted me on the way. I managed to win, but with only 19k infantry and about 2k cav left. Once I reached Moskva and laid seige, I got blind sided by another large army of about 30k Infantry and was defeated since my moral had not fully recovered. I had to reteat because he would route and possibly destroy my army if I didn't.

The war soon shifted to Russia's favor as a seemingly endless amount of infantry poured into my country. Russia reached thier pinnicle when they owned Welika, Vorones, Bogitiar and Donesk, while taking back the two I had captured from him. I had but one hope to stem the tide, pull some troops from the French border to help squish the Russian hordes. With the influx of new troops I was able to take back all territory I had lost and once again take Kursk, however, with revolts all over and me losing Poltava to Ukraine and Jedisan to Moldavia because of defections, I sued for a white peace and was rejected. Fearing a colapse of the entire Russian front, I franticly recruited pushing my Manpower to 0 every month, Russia sued for peace in 1613 and I greatly accepted giving him 75$.

Still feeling cheapened by the defections I used the CB I gained from Ukraine for thier insolence and DOW'd on them less than one month after the Russian debacle. I was able to easily defeat his armies with the help of the fresh 20k army of cav sent from the French front, which was now starting to wind down. I captured Poltava then Krementjug and sued for peace gaining Poltava back and 53$ which was all he had. However, while at war with me the big dummy sighned an alliance with Moldavia effectivly sealing his doom if he honored his alliance when I dow'd on Moldavia, which he did.

Aug 5, 1614 I dow'd on Moldavia and like a good boy Ukrain followed and honored his alliance. I quickly captured Krementjug from Ukrain, while laying seige to Moldavia's capital and destroying his army. The war went without a hitch and I was able to annex the Ukrain in November 1614, thus freeing up more troops to speed the beating of Moldavia.

I captured Jedisan rather fast, but the Moldavian capital would prove to be a tougher nut to crack than I had anticipated. The war would drag on until peace was sighned in January 9, 1617 giving me Jedisan and 87$ which wasall they had :)


Looking at the map I had noticed something; the Ottomons were getting a bit too close for my liking. While militarily the OE had yet to do anything to me or any of my allies, I did see it as somewhat of a threat, so as a buffer I was going to snatch land from the Crimea and block his Northern advance. None of this could be possible without peace in Europe as my war exhaustion was reaching catastrophic levels(18) in none core provs.

While I waited for peace in Europe I reshuffled my troops and leaders so I would be able to best attack the Crimea when the time came. I recruited and recruited some more till I had a sizable armies in Jedisan, Bogutiar and Donesk. I was going to have three main thrust into the Crimnea out of each of those territories while keeping two cav armies(18k and 15k) back for reinforcements or to route an enemy.

Peace in Europe came to Poland in January 30, 1618 with a nothing exchanged. I was the first to sighn because I had no claim to anything pertaining to France. The others followed suit later in the year.


This dropped my war exhaustion and allowed me to start my camphaighn against Crimea. On Sep26, 1619 I DOW'd on Crimea. Everything was going as planned I launched a lighting fast attack from three directions quickly taking Crimea, Ufa, Samara and laying seige to Lugansk. My victorious troops in Samara are heading South to Uralsk. While the rest will branch off to lay seige to him and eventually occupy all orthodox provs.


Alas it was not to be the other people wanted to stop play and left me wanting still more blood.
 
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Damocles

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In the last four wars that France has found itself in, every single one of them was in self defense. The last time I declared war on Netherlands and Austria was because Austria had dowed my ally, Poland. Well, a new player came to Poland and he was rapidly drawn into the anti-french coalition.


1601 saw the Spanish Empire, Ottoman Empire, Austrian Empire, Sweden, Poland arranged against France. Netherlands was a nominal French vassal yet played both sides. Putting down rebels in Artois for me, (Which due to an editing snafu is stuck with a perm +10 revolt risk), while telling Austria where my armies were. I'm pretty sure who got the better bargain.

Let us analyze the situation somewhat. The players allying against me repeatedly vindicated their actions by claiming it was in defense of the balance of power. I believe my actions have been more in defense of it then theirs. Desperately, I have tried to form a powerbase large enough to get by without a colonial empire manpower wise and so to rise as a counterweight to Spain. Little did I know that Ulver, by having been left alone the entire game, especially during the first 50 years where other people were France, had formed a massive colonial and trading Empire. Using these resources he has been able to buy his allies.

In a way, the powers that be feared conflict among themselves more then they feared me. A self-willed France was a conveniant target to form a coalition against, thus actually securing their own positions against each other, as long as there was a supposed common enemy to unite against. No doubt, this was great fun and comfort to the other 7 players, but somewhat hectic for myself.

Seeing as I was, in the obligatory role as the badboy of Europe, despite having less manpower and 1/4th the resources, I resolved to make a fight of it regardless. I had learned a valuable lesson the previous century when I saw them absolutely reduce Poland to a quivering mass through the skillful use of war exhaustion, round robin style. I knew then, that in order for me to survive, I would have to knock out each of my enemies quickly.

1601 began with a bang during which Austria and Poland, financed with 10,000 Spanish ducats had been building up a massive force. A month later, the Ottoman Empire declared war in support. At this same time, I got an unhappy peasants event. I then crashed, and the war went on a month without me. Thankfully, nothing dire occured. It was a inauspicious beginning.

The Ottomans with a 180k manpower at this stage, owning as they do, every single one of theri CB shields, launched a massive offensive against the south of France. Two armies of 30k-40k in size attacked from Spain, whilst some 150k were landed by Turkish ships in the med. Immediately, I had to raise an army to deal with this threat.

With some 70k French, I resolved to counterattack. My main advantage being my invincible morale thanks to CRC and home field advantage.

Fortune was with me, and whilst the Austrian army continued to build up to where he must have been supporting a unholy 300k within his borders. This could only have been possible with the full weight of the Spanish economic juggernaut thrown behind him. With 500 a month income and enough provinces to place a govenor so as to go full to treasurey for a 100 years straight, he had endless ducats. He was also full quantity, which is a tactic, I should have kept to myself ;). I was of course, consisting on census taxes combined with war taxes the entire time. It was amazing, that considering the war lasted 17 years, I was able to emerge economically stable. Judicious building up of the French economy having paid off in full.

The counterattack against the Ottoman invasion went beautifully, my 70k French sweeping away his armies that were combined with attrition, hopelessly slaughtered repeatedly, giving me a 40 percent victory. That I was even able to amass that much percentage should be an indicator of just how many troops he landed.

Though, seeing as how the Ottoman Empire has beeen massive for the last 70 years and left completely alone, it should come as no surprise that he was able to make the effort.

There then followed a relative lull in the fighting, coupled with desultory skirmishing. I knew this was not to last much longer and was proven correct when 150k more turks landed en masse. They attempted an immediate storm of Languedoc, but the invincible garrison withheld, allowing me to counterattack with their morale at it's lowest ebb. This alone saved me from having a messy situation at my hands. I then continued to follow and crush the Ottoman armies, their morale in the gutter. This drove my war score to 50 percent and the Ottoman Empire was beginning to take stab hits for refusing peace. Finally, he acceded, and it was over.

The Ottoman equation of the unholy coalition was finally removed. Though, for the next 15 years I was living under the threat that he would re-declare war. I was lucky in that the Ottoman Empire gets some shitty events around this time and he was dealing with revolts. But still, to understand my mindset, his
re-entry was constantly on my mind and the consequences thereof.

More time elapsed, and then Sweden was bribed into declaring war on me as well. He did this during a period of intense army maneuvering between myself and Austria, and it took a formidable effort to constantly switch back and forth between the theatres of war. Dealing with a large Swedish army in NA led by a good commander, and with the Austia making trouble with it's immense army...It is amazing the amount of troops that a 93k manpower capable Austria can build up given time and limitless ducats...

Eventually, I systematically built up a large enough army in North America to kill off Sweden's army + leader over there and recapture the colonies he took, but it was a few years of distraction. I ceded protestant anglosaxon colony to him and surprisingly, he accepted. I regretted it somewhat however, when 5 years later he was saying he would re-dow me for extra funds. But surprisingly, Spain didn't pay up. In any case, it gave me the invaluable opportunity to focus on the Austrian front.

What followed was a disastrous miscalculation. Considering that my own funds are limited, I had been building my armies with moderation, lest I be run into bankruptcy or be forced to (heaven forbid) divert money to treasurey.

Thus, when I launched a 120k army into Austria to take care of his own 100k army, I saw he had two in the region, one behind the other, and drawn further back. (I attacked from Wurzburg, into Anhalt, then to Madgeburg).

What followed was mutual annihilation for the most part, a 45k polish army helping somewhat, after I attempted another attack. At the end of all this, I saw that 200k French were dead, and some 150k Austrians had perished. The benefits of defending I suppose.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have conserved these troops, but at the time I was operating under the assumption that somehow, someway, I had to end the war with Austria before Ottoman Empire dowed. Or someone else in the interest of dragging out war exhaustion. This was a threat to me because it was the exact same tactic I wittnessed them use against Poland. To just play defensively and drag the war out as long as possible until someone else enters. This is ussually only possible when it is a large coalition. In my case, it was everyone cept BiB. Though, telling them where my armies were surely hurt me, because Austria knew just when to strike deep into France with the interest of hitting minor armies sieging rebelling provinces while I did not know where he was. Information is power for sure. I only realized this, when Maur forgot to exclude from his chatting :eek:

I also came to another realization. Past land tech 21, it is impossible to perpetuate the kind of blitz tactics that is so common prior to 1600. Even taking a single province, when built to large, can be a powerfully difficult undertaking and yet, you are still at the phase where the fire phase is not sufficiently strong enough to make artillery a worthy investment. It is is the hardest period for the attacker.

So I knew that Austria had an advantage, and because of the decade or so of preparation with Spanish ducats, was effortlessly able to hold an army that was actually, larger the mine. I found myself with 0 manpower each month because of my need to recruit more and more.

What followed over the next 7 years or so, without getting into too much painful detail, was a series of about 20 major battles. I would invade Austria, and inevitably, I'd have to retreat. He would invade me, and inevitably I would destroy his army.

The final phase of the war came as a great shock to me. Austria began to get great army leaders, while I didn't have a single one. The greatest of them, Von Wallenstein made his entrance with a bang when a Austrian army destroyed a invaluable 100k French cavalry in Milan taking maybe 15k-20k losses. It was a combination of a great leader and abominable luck during the tricky shock rolls.

This swung the balance into Austria's favor dramatically, giving them a massive advantage in army size. It is worth pointing out that Austria is at 1 quantity, and after annexing most of northern Germany, had a 93k manpower base, combined with mercenaries that I could never hope to afford.

Now, I had to scramble, taking out a dangerous war taxes, despite the considerable war exhaustion to scrap together an army. Pulling completely out of Germany behind the Rhine, I eventually formed an army big enough to chase Wallenstein back. At this time however, I found myself with one respectable army continually chasing back and forth to fend off the Austrian incursions. Time and time again, 7k or 10k armies of austrian cavalry would pillage their way across France emerging from the Spanish border which I eventually had to completely blockade, or sneaking past Milan after I had to focus my attention in the north. This armies required chasing down.

Down to my last ducat and last soldier, after nearly 17 years of fighting just about everyone except Spain (Who must have been bleeding itself dry at times with the huge amount of ducats it poured into my enemies), the bad war exhaustion revolts began to break out.

Now, came something especially annoying. Austria was able to swoop in and go after my armies sieging occupied Kleves or Picardie, or Savoy, by passing through Netherlands and the the HRE territory, and receiving from some mysterious source, their exact location and size.

Now, to truly imagine my situation, know that I felt the Ottoman Empire was on the verge of re-entering (which had been delayed, to the best of my knowledge, due to it's own revolt risk, and something about losing 300k troops in 3 years of fighting). Sweden also was clamoring to rejoin, and I was positive, England would, to retake Kent.

At this juncture, Spain declares its own intent to join the war if it went on much longer. I.E, past 1618. I don't know if Ulver meant for me to hear it or not, as I caught quite a few pieces of enemy intelligence by forgetting to gray my name out. Seeing as how I was the only name that needed graying out, everyone else being a virtual ally, I'm not quite sure how it was so difficult.

At this stage, I began to know what Napoleon felt like, or what must have driven Hitler to fight it out to his bunker. The absolute difficulty of a individual, who having been assured of his superiority, (or the unlikely probability of losing his allies under new player management and having the entire world unite against you), to be faced with impending doom.

Now, at this stage, I could have dumped everything I had into treasurey, and run my economy into the ground, prolonging the war to painful degrees whilst everyone rejoined. I knew I could not take Austria. It was fortified with spanish gold to large fortresses. Not for the time, I remarked to myself (And to my shame, to everyone in a fit of bitterness) that for now on, I would not subscribe to any merciful peaces that merely give my enemies the chance to recuperate and attack again. I should not have offered to let Austria off the last war, but should have taken Tirol, Bavaria and Ansbach as I originally planned, giving me a much firmer footing. Oh well, live (die) and learn.

I was not willing to sacrifice my country. Mostly because I had not lost hope. The most dangerous opponent is someone who loses hope too easily. They will uncaringly commit their country to destruction.

So with regret, after 17 years of fighting, and faced with the re-entry of Sweden, Ottomans into the war, along with Spain, I knew that especially considering my lack of leaders and inability to keep raising troops (even if they were available) or to resort to mercenaries, I had to make peace.

The terms they imposed on me were unfortunately harsh. Provinces that I had controlled for almost a hundred years, I was forced to set free. German provinces that I had spent almost a 1000 ducats each on converting to catholicism, I was forced to give to Austria. I then had to release 9 others.

To add insult to injury, Savoy managed to declare independence, but I managed to re-annex them. My sole consolation was that not one of my enemies had managed to forcefully take any of my provinces during the war with the exception of wall-less colonies in NA by Sweden.

In hindsight, I wonder if perhaps I should have continued the war to it's bitter bloody end, but then what would that have gained me? My enemies had no intention of ever backing down, Ulver having once declared that he would rather see half of Iberia in french hands then see my position grow stronger.

With the advent of land tech 21 allowing large castles, It was patently impossible to force my way in, and even so, I lacked the resources to do so.

It is important to realize that via every measuring stick, with the sole exception of individual skill, France was roughly third power wise. Austria, having gone on a mad annex spree, was a close fourth. Sure, in a stand up fight, Pure France, vs Pure Austria, Austria would eventually lose. But financed as they were and with years of preparation, and with France bearing the burden of attack, they were plenty able to hold their own. Austria's own rebels were not a problem since half the Spanish, the Swedish, the Ottoman and the Polish armies were commited to putting down Austrian rebellions, which must have been a considerable relief, as scrambling to produce an army out of nothing to put down a revolt somewhere was taxing, at sometimes the most vital moments of the war.

If a war exhaustion free Ottoman Empire or Spain had DoWed or re-DoWed, I would not have stood a chance. Simple numbers point to the coalition being rediculous in the first place...Again to my shame, I lashed out at Mowers or Ulver (?) when they claimed to be preserving the Balance of Power. I claimed this had nothing to do with the Balance of Power, this was a crusade, pure and simple.

Being down 1200 victory points probably added to my conviction.

Seeing Spain, Ottomans, Poland, Austria, Sweden with nominal Dutch intelligence gathering and English cheerleading, (Though admittedly, Mowers might have done alot of the organizing behind the scenes, previous players of England had left it in such terrible shape that he was in no position to even think of war).

It was a little like World War II. Which basically saw the entire world (America, Russia, etc) allied against a nation the size of Texas. I feel that is a closer comparison then the Napoleonic war, which was actually, nearly even in it's way.

I had to make a decision...Did I want to fight this to the walls of Paris, or did I want to preserve myself after a fashion for a better future? I swallowed my pride, (reflecting on Napoleon's exile or perhaps, Hitler's suicide) and asked for peace terms.

Well, of course the coalition took no undue pleasure in exacting the most exorbiant terms possible, with even a Sweden piping up to reserve some colonies for them, but I gritted my teeth and watched as Austria took about 2 years sieging mainz and wurzburg which was allocated to them.

The original objective of the allies had been for me to free a few german vassals, including Palatinate. I did not like them suddenly taking advantage and asking for much much more, but I knew that ultimately, I was in no position to object. I had done the best I could, under the circumstances, but conversly, there was nothing I could do, as it was a waiting game. Even if I somehow overcame Austria's large fortresses, I would still be at +18 war exhaustion when Spain or Ottoman dowed.

So yes, it was a tough loss to swallow, but I never had any chance to begin with, realistically speaking. I am used to fairly brief campaigns, a opponents army is annihilated, and then a reasonable peace term is conducted. For example, when I sieged and stormed all of England, I took 2 colonies and 2 trading posts out of fairness. This was altogether, a different sort of war. Total war, in which the participants only goal was to see me in flames. I felt a distinctly Carthaginian frustration.

In any case, I am no stranger to coalitions (Hell, Napoleon's Ambition is my favorite campaign), and by all accounts and purposes, all 7 of them performed their duties masterfully, working very well as a team.

It appears for the moment that French hegemony has been replaced by Austrian hegemony in Europe, though it is a tenuous bet to say the least if Austria can hold it without continuing to receive such substantial Spanish funding. The answer is a definite negative. So it is only right that Ulver became the Holy Roman Emperor. For all intents and purposes, it was his war, and it was his sweat and ducats if not blood that won it.

In almost any GC game, you will see a coalition of nations forming against Spain. For some reason, Spain was allowed for over a century under near constant player leadership to expand to it's desire, with zero obstruction. It is thus obvious that Spain is the premier superpower. Allied as they are with six other players, Ulver masterfully directed their attention to a assertive French player. I deeply respect Ulver's diplomatic abilities. That is one of the main reasons I enjoy Multiplayer. The diplomatic aspect to it. Though, I think if I hear one more person mention the BoP, I am going to do something very rash indeed. The Balance of Power was a facade by which Spain assured it's own world dominion with the help of well, everyone else. It is normally France's duty to attempt to offset Spanish power, and Ulver knows this. That the nations whom over the last 4 decades I found myself at war with, England, Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Sweden, and the Ottoman Empire, were only too happy to oblige, is a testement to the persuasive powers that infinite ducats can assure.

So now, France finds itself needing to take a new course in this game. For now, continental hegemony seems denied to them...But what is more preferable? A tyrant in Madrid, Vienna or the Sublime Porte? Only time will tell.
 
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unmerged(2833)

Grandpa Maur
Apr 10, 2001
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War. Almost one thing the last generatio knew was war.

Well, at least in France and Germany:D

As we said, the war was drawing near. Yet, it came as surprise for almost everyone, as we decided to shorten the prepartations considerably, as we had strange feeling that we might not be able to see free Palatinate before 1619 (which somehow we considered important for our Bohemian holdings-hint, existence of Palatinate is needed for Austrian player to have CB over Bohemia), and vassalized Saxony and Pommern (with whom we were at war-they converted back soon, though), made white peace with Sweden, and formal declaration of war against kingdom of France was issued.

There was unfortunate accident, when our only leader was killed assaultingn Pommern fortress...

War plans were agreed with English, Ottomans, Spanish and Polish allies(though actually England did nothing in this war:D). We had over 200k soldiers under arms, while our Dutch spies told us French had over 250k. Our manpower was a bit under 80k, while French was well over 100k. Armies were split in two, one 100k army (up to the support limit:D), consisting of 80k cavalry, guarded Magdeburg, with 40k backup in Brandenburg, while some 150k total (yes, i know it makes my whole army over 300k. I might be mistaken when i said i had just over 200k:D) guarding Austrian heartland in Salzburg and Steimark.
Upgraded forts in Bayern, Ansbach, Tirol, Ostmarch, Steimark, Sazlburg, and Austria were to assure that no French blitz is possible. Also, as we gained land tech 21 shortly after the beginning of the war, we upgraded them even further.

Well, the war started, but... not much hapenned. Well, except plundering sortie based in Spain, which got killed fairly easily by French forces, and French capture of Luxemburg (Brabant was handed over to Netherlands, as previously agreed)

The main burden of perhaps first two years of war was carried by Ottoman Empire, who joined the war shortly after Austria. In two waves, they landed like 300k troops in southern France, though, as it was supposed, French destroyed those forces, and shortly thereafter, Ottoman Empire left the war for good, acting as a rebel peacekeeping force in Hungary at few moments much later.

During next year or two, not much hapenned, our armies sat on their positions, French sat in border provinces, and our Polish allies kept handy 40k cavalry in western Poland, ready to support our northern armies in case of French attack.
Not much hapenned, only few small French incursions into Tirol and Anhalt we easily defeated, and few small Austrian plundering expeditions thru Netherlands, and western France to safe Spanish haven. All this time army our army was build up,

Then, maybe in the 6-7 year of war, massive French offensive was procured, striking at Anhalt and Magdeburg. There were some really great battles, involving around 200 thousands troops on both sides. Lady luck shined on both on French and Austrians sometimes, but in the end our army was severely depleted, so we even called our Polish allies repeatedly (well, they even made it in time once:D;)).
Just when we had only 30k left in Brandenburg, and no desire to move our southern army guarding Austria, French gave up.

And then went few more years of rebuilding army, we were able to replenish our troops, and get some reserves. It was probably the time Swedish waged their colonial war in America.

As the war dragged on, German and Swiss people begun to took up arms in France, and rebellions started to appear. To deal with some treacherous elements in Bohemia and north Germany, we called our Spanish allies to take care of them so we could concentrate fully on fighting France. We also created provincial government in Hungary, and agreed to extend cities rights, effectively making new centralized HRE new decentralized HRE:D(i lowered my centralization slider by some 5 points due to events...)

Up until 1615, not much more hapenned, except we made more agressive stance, which mainly meant we moved our armies to the borders, and French moved them back one province:D. Actually, France was getting apparently nervous with this prolonged war, seeing it's inability to defeat Austria and our determination.
Only military actions were our repated invasions of Milan from Tirol, each one costing us and French well over 40k troops for each one of us. Then we decided to make an agressive move, seeing that it's time to start depleting French forces and dragging his attention away from his rebels. Initial offensive, which saw some of our 200k troops pouring into Wurzburg, ended rather bad, with French taking far fewer losses than us, though the war definitly turned from defensive one to offensive.

It was only when Wallenstein appeared, along with ever increasing revoltrisk in French provinces, we were able to make significant progress, especially in Italy, as we repeatedly relieved siege of rebel held Savoy. (actually, Savoy declared it's independence few months after peace treaty, but France annexed it soon thereafter).

Though French standing army due to constant warfare was severely diminished, France still had plenty of manpower and was able to regain it's fighting ability over and over again.

But in 1617 we already spent more time negotiating peace, seeing as French will to fight was gone, and we were as determined as ever.

The negotiations took quite much time, and in early 1618, peace treaty was finally agreed by all participants, along with Spain, and England (what the heck England was doing in peace conference? It hasn't even participated in war at all:D)

The result can be clearly seen. France had to relase every German minor as vassal, and cede non-relasable provinces (Mainz and Wurzburg) to Austria, and also relase Switzerland.

The war was finally over, France defeated but still intact, having only lost it's Germanic possesions. Austria come out slightly stronger, but not much. There were some thing going out in the ROTW and rest of Europe, but don't ask me about it, i was waging war against France!

Ah, btw. Spain poured 10'000 ducats into Austria of which i made good use, raising my fortification levels and buying troops.
The war was mainly attritional one really. There were long periods when nothing at all hapenned, with short period of extremely intensive warfare, with huge armies involved. Only after 1614 real Austrian offensive begun, this was 13 years after the war started.

Ah, there was very bad sign right after the end of the war. Spaniards were elected HRE, and this after all the things i've done to defend the HRE! We should really edit this thing!;)
 
M

Mowers

Guest
1565-1581- Lost Opportunities

Well, a number of things to report really.

I guess I first better report on my time as Austria

Austria- 1565-1581

France had made it very clear that it was going to renew its attempt at Continental hegemony again and the tide was against the free people of Europe. Austria tried to stand up this knowing that it was the primary target. Having got off so lightly against Damocleas I knew that I wouldn’t so lucky this time. Here is a basic Austrian only time line with some comments

May 17, 1565 : Netherlands cancelled the Vassalization she had with Austria.BiB (Netherlands)

Expected, indeed I encouraged it. Having formed Netherlands I was keen to see them do well.

April 9, 1568 : Mecklenburg accepted peace with Sweden on the following terms : Full Annexation of Mecklenburg by Sweden

This was a major event although it may not seem it. I had good relations with Poland for a long time but they kept on demanding more and more in Northern Germany. First of all they wanted Pommern, then they wanted Mecklenberg and then they wanted Saxony. I couldn’t defend them all from Jonicro so I invited Sweden into Mecklenberg hoping that he would be able to stop Poland rampaging across Northern Germany whilst I tried vainly to defend myself from the oncoming French.

July 10, 1568 : Netherlands joined the war on the same side as Bohemia, Tuscany, Würzburg and Austria in their war against Poland, Venice and France.

Well. I wasn’t far wrong. War came in a matter of months, France driving into Austrian Lowlands with massive armies and unlimited manpower. I tried to hold off both front and free the german lands that France had taken on the East bank of the Rhine. Poland follows suit and drives into Northern Germany, although a minor AI war pits Sweden versus France and Poland solving a lot of my headaches.

October 26, 1569 : We lost a battle against France in Baden.Jonicro

I was doing fairly well till I lost this decisive battle in Baden to France- I lost about 70K of men to his 10K despite that I defending a river and it was fairly equal. My field army was destroyed and I was broke, the war was over.

November 20, 1569 : Poland accepted our generous peace offer.Damocles (France)

Yet again I escape with a lucky break. Both of us were confused about who was the war leader and I was yet again lucky to get out against France for no loss. War continues with Sweden to the north fighting against Poland and France.

January 26, 1572 : England accepted peace with France on the following terms : Stadacone to France, Penobscot to France, Caniapiscau to France & Belle Isle to France.Damocles

Meanwhile the war against France continued. England was the next victim, fighting a disasterous campaign in the new world France was able to establish itself a predominant in NA. Sweden alone stands. But Sweden is being overun by French forces that are fighting in Poland, helping to keep war exhaustion rebels at bay and landing troops in Sweden main. Sweden gets peace and a province in the baltics but the Ottomans continue the war so as to keep Poland at war.

July 25, 1572 : Venice joined the war on the same side as Poland in their war against Ottoman Empire.BiB

The Ottomans get involved with the mainland war and fighting breaks on my borders keeping the Polish army busy fighting very irritated peasants.

May 24, 1578 : France dishonored a Military Alliance she had with Poland and Venice.§
May 24, 1578 : Netherlands joined the war on the same side as Bohemia, Tuscany and Wurtemberg in their war against Poland and Venice
May 24, 1578 : Austria joined the war on the same side as Bohemia

I join in too to stop Poland from conquering Northern Germany and take an opportunity to knock it out before Ottomans take a peace, which they do and three provinces as well. I don’t want this war but I have to try and do something to relieve the Ottomans who now face the Poles and the French alone. I make some major mistakes and Poland, which is knackered from fighting the Ottomans is able to defeat me with the weather. I was inept to be blunt and lose thousands to the snow, men I cant afford to replace. Having been handed an opportunity to deal with Poland separately from France and try and drive it out of bohemia and Northern germany I throw it away.

May 28, 1579 : France has cancelled the treaty of military access they had in our country.BiB

This should have gotten me back up to speed- big warning. But I still continued to play capt incompetant in the snow. Even though Poland is now suffering massive war exhaustion and spends its time putting down rebels I am unable to reconquer bohemia properly.

I try to finish the war demanding Bohemia, Poland agrees. Great, but I cant quite conquer Bohemia, and the war drags on.

August 24, 1579 : Netherlands joined the war on the same side as Austria in their war against Poland.

August 26, 1580 : Austria joined the war on the same side as Netherlands in their war against France.

France invades with 100k. My army, weakened by my own ineptitude, is feeble and is still in Poland- all 35K. I manage to get Poland to sign a peace treaty and I am able to regather, 2KD comes from Spain and I have to buy 2kD of Mercs as my manpower is now 8K.

May 25, 1581 : We lost a battle against France in Steiermark.

What a note to go out on. I outnumber him 4:1 and lose. Disasterous. But its 2.52. I have to go and meet this Italian girl and I have 8 minutes to change from wearing my smeggy pants and surrounded by my own filth to something that is going to appeal to the fashionable girl from Milan.- All I want to talk about is EU, all she wants to talk about is horse riding. I sit there listening wondering what is happening to Austria and how badly I screwed up; not that it stops the old mowers magic. J

Well, I held up France for another 15 years. But I should have done better. Diplomatically I managed to convince Poland to change sides. His prime concern was being shredded by the Ottomans and Swedes and all I wanted was not be shredded by him so we decide to join together which suited me down to the ground. So on one level I managed to stop France from driving wedges in the alliance but militarily I failed.
 

ulver

Former King of Spain
66 Badges
Apr 16, 2001
739
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www.ulver.dk
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1620: The 100-year feud is finally over with France being forced to give up her dream of European hegemony

So France thought he was tough? I laugh at feeble France. All it took to bring the sissy down was a Spanish-English-Ottoman-Swedish-Polish coalition with the Dutch acting as spies providing detailed information on French movements. See? Piece of cake just as I always knew it would be.

Seriously, kudus to our visiting Californian madman for almost doing the impossible and establishing effective dominance over the European continent against what I would have considered impossible odds. At several times he might actually have succeeded in crushing Austria making effective resistance on land all but impossible.

Seen from Madrid this was a truly titanic struggle between French blood and Spanish gold. The French armies were brilliantly directed as had been demonstrated in countless victories one more stunning then the other but eventually the mountains of Spanish bullion overcame even the most brilliant French generalship.

To illustrate I present a hypnotically discussion between the Spanish Ambassador in Vienna and the noble Holy Roman Emperor

“I bring another shipment of Gold for your glorious struggle against the French!”
“On no, we’re running out of places to stack it. Well, just put it anywhere.”
“But it is meant for the war effort! Don Ulver expect it to be put to use at one in killing Frenchmen”
“Oh, really. And how would I do that?”
“Buy troops!”
“Come on man. You honestly think we have unused manpower?”
“Buy mercenaries”
“Hired them all long ago.”
“Weapons manufactories then, to arm your brave troops better.”
“Nope, no more room.”
A thoughtful pause. Then “This is terrible, how is the war going?”
“Well, so so. The Ottomans just had another two hundred thousand-man strong invasion force wiped out in the South of France. It may take, well several months before they can invade again. Please tell Constantinople not to slack off like that. We are both at +10 war exhausting so that is a bit of a drag, the neutral Spanish army deployed to fight rebels is very nice and all but it keeps getting in the way of Poles on their way to the front. How are things at sea?”
“The sneaky French keeps hiding. We thought we found their fleet last month but it was just another wave of Swedish forces on their way to invade overseas French positions.”
“Well. What can I say? War is hell”

How France resisted as long as she did is a source of wonderment to me. A great opponent. I don’t really have much to say on the war itself as the Spanish contribution basically consisted of two things:
a) Giving stacks of cash to those putting troops in the field against France
b) Offering stacks of cash to neutral powers if they’d care to put troops in the field against France

Eventually France gave in and set all Non-French provinces in Europe free as vassals thereby retreating back from the Holy Roman Empire. I should point out that this only happened when Spain and England explicitly made it clear they were about to enter the war against a France dealing with +18 in war exhausting. Austria demanded two provinces bordering France to guard the HRE and would set Brandenburg free as compensation. The net result was an awful lot of newly independent German minors who promptly elected me as the new holy roman emperor well; I am the one who always insisted on their independence so I think it only fair. Austria, however was somewhat nonplussed asking if that meant I now took over responsibility for protecting the newly independent German minors. Well, that might be a problem.

Meanwhile the age of enlightenment has begun in Spain with the freest and most tolerant society in the world. Religious zealots rioting demanding our citizens of Arab decent should be expelled were calmly ignored: They were among our most renowned scholars and merchants. “Yes” I told my priests ”I know mosques aren’t going to burn themselves but we have converted all the heathens in our realm already. These riots really have to stop – they are bad for business ” The age of Reason has dawned in Spain with even the Dutch Republic in awe of the freedoms enjoyed by all in my enlighten nation. A Spain with max freedom, max inventiveness and working on becoming plutocratic. It is indeed a new world.. No wonder the Spanish always supported the independence of the Dutch Republic – we are both well on the way to becoming the worlds first secular parliamentarian nations - light-years ahead of everyone else in the arts and sciences. Having achieved Liberalism (trade 8)with a Spanish Adam Smith publishing his “Wealth of Nations” a few centuries ahead of time we are quite comfortable competing with the Dutch in an environment of free trade. Of course the 20+ breweries doesn’t hurt either. Despite Dutch boosts the Spanish fleet ranks equal with the Dutch in technology and outnumber it with a 150 ships of the line ready to take up station at any hint of danger to the Spanish empire. The Dutch may have better admirals but quantity has a quality all of its own a conflict at sea could go either way.

Not that any is likely: we share the ideals of freedom, both of inquiry, of politics and of the seas. Together we shall deal with old-fashioned backward-looking intolerance by reducing it to irrelevance in our brand new world of science instead of superstition. Truly my objective of a chicken in every pot and a manufactory in every village is coming true.

As for the future. Well hoping to demonstrate the 100-years feud was truly over I offered one of my prettiest daughters in marriage to the King of France along with a state gift for the wedding. If I never have to be embroiled in another conflict I shall be well pleased.

Of course Spain still has hot-blooded young men eager to follow the example of Cortez. While I’m keen not to step on anyone’s sphere of influence I’m sure I’ll find some harmless outlet for their energy: Next objective the vassalasation of Japan! And, obviously, there is always China should that proved to easy. Seriously Spain will continue to be very careful not to make to many enemies. Luckily the nightmare of a British-French Alliance seems to be gone with France in possession of most of North America including the Manhattan trade centre

In response to the French post:
I actually agued forcefully for France to keep Savoy as it has French culture and made sure Swedish demands for colonies were rejected out of hand. I actually think my policy have made perfect sense and dovetailed nicely with my opening strategy stated in my very first post. Once France decisively beats Austria or is allowed to take large chunks of HRE she becomes unstoppable. As a matter of self-serving realpolitik I had to stop you. Every French triumph on the battlefield increased my commitment to Austria in response. Had Austria attempted to incorporate Dutch culture or to unify Italy I would happily have financed you to stop him. Once France crosses the Rhine into Germany I begin to worry. It should be noted it took a huge collation to stop you.
You are right that I to deserve a collation against me by now but I have been very careful to stay out of other peoples core interests. If meet with strong complains, as in Indonesia or Australia I have even burned down my own trade posts to avoid making waves. I have, quite deliberately, set out to lose several wars to avoid the greater danger of uniting several great powers against me.
You are one of the best tacticians I have ever played with but you are a bit of a bull in a glasshouse when it comes to diplomacy.
 
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M

Mowers

Guest
England AAR and War Analysis

England 1601-1620

I’ll be brutal. England was a mess, infact it was a right off. A series of mistakes through inexperience and a disasterous series of wars with France had basically crippled it. A few colonies in NA, rampant inflation, horribly religious diverse, no shipyard, no COT- he chose barracks!!!, no army, France owned kent, no navy, a series of unpayable bank loans, slider to army instead of navy, internal policies that meant it took 4 years to regain 1 point of stability. To be honest I fought rebels for 10 years and altered the file. Cutting inflation back to 15 percent, wiping the loans and switching the land/ navy slider. It was unplayable. The lesson here is that you cant play MP like SP. This was 109 years of disaster and England was out. I don’t often alter files – this is the 3rd time I have done so to alter massive player inexperience.

In this time I did nothing until 1616 when I attacked benin and got a COT. I sat there and fought rebels and tried to get stability back up. In 1620 I attacked Oman but that war continues. That’s my AAR

So this AAR isn’t about England its about the 4th Damoclean War for European hegemony.


May 18, 1600 : Pommern accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Pommern pays 274d in indemnities. Pommern will become a vassal.
May 18, 1600 : Pommern became Vassals of Austria.
May 18, 1600 : Pommern broke the Royal Marriage she had with Sweden.§394mowers (England)
May 18, 1600 : Saxony accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Saxony pays 230d in indemnities. Saxony will become a vassal.
May 18, 1600 : Saxony became Vassals of Austria.

Austria under Maur sweeps up in Northern Germany giving him the extra manpower to face a predominant France.

August 30, 1600 : Austria left the Military Alliance she had with France and Netherlands.
October 18, 1600 : Austria has cancelled the treaty of military access they had in France..
December 11, 1600 : Austria entered a Military Alliance with Poland and Venice.
December 16, 1600 : Austria declared war upon France.
December 20, 1600 : Venice joined the war on the same side as Austria in their war against France.
December 23, 1600 : Poland joined the war on the same side as Austria and Venice in their war against France.
December 26, 1600 : Netherlands joined the war on the same side as France in their war against Austria, Venice and Poland.§51hUlver (Spain)
April 17, 1601 : Ottoman Empire declared war upon France.

Europe unites to fight the French who now control large parts of the HRE which they don’t even vassalise as a way of distracting attention from themselves.


May 17, 1601 : Sweden declared war upon Russia.BiB (Netherlands)
July 28, 1601 : Denmark declared war upon Sweden.
July 28, 1601 : Hessen joined the war on the same side as Denmark in their war against Sweden.

Sweden enters the first of many odd little wars to the north

October 9, 1601 : Austria accepted peace with Netherlands on the following terms : Brabant to Netherlands.

Netherlands is unified.

November 24, 1601 : Sweden accepted peace with Russia on the following terms : Russia pays 29d in indemnities.

Sweden narrowly misses getting a hammering here.

June 6, 1602 : Netherlands is now granting Austria military access to their country.
June 25, 1602 : Netherlands declared war upon Portugal.
July 20, 1602 : Spain joined the war on the same side as Portugal in their war against Netherlands.

The Netherlands moves against Portugal and Spain stands back essentially saying take a bit and then back off please.

May 2, 1603 : Pommern joined the war on the same side as Denmark and Hessen in their war against Sweden.

Sweden fights another odd little war


July 11, 1603 : Netherlands accepted peace with Spain on the following terms : Colombo to Netherlands

Spain and the Netherlands relationship is getting tighter. They agree that Netherlands can have the east indies without competition if it stays out of French alliance and out of Spanish spheres of influence.

February 18, 1605 : France accepted peace with Ottoman Empire on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.

The Ottomans drop out of the war. Note that the war between Austria and France is already in stalemate. Massive subsidiaries from Spain keep Austria in the game. It sits behind its ever increasing fortifications waiting for France to attack which it doesn’t. Massive battles over Lombardia happen though but neither side is able to take advantage from their victories.

March 15, 1605 : Sweden accepted peace with Denmark on the following terms : Sweden pays 11d in indemnities. (Austria) Teutonic_Knight (Poland)

Sweden manages to wriggle free again

July 1, 1605 : Netherlands is now granting Spain military access to their country.


November 12, 1606 : Sweden declared war upon France.Damocles (France) (Austria)
November 22, 1606 : Netherlands dishonored a Military Alliance she had with France.

Netherlands moves out of the French sphere of influence and firmly into the Spanish one. Sweden joins in the war against France in NA.

October 10, 1607 : Portugal accepted peace with Netherlands on the following terms : Portugal pays 32d in indemnities. Buru to Netherlands, Flores to Netherlands, Salabanka to Netherlands & Table to Netherlands.Portugal will have to give up military access.

Portugal is finished outside of Brazil.

October 11, 1609 : Poland declared war upon Russia.

I cant remember what this was about/

December 10, 1609 : Sweden accepted peace with France on the following terms : Caniapiscau to Sweden & Stadacone to Sweden

Sweden wins quick victories in NA establishing its self as the clear No.2 in NA after France. France busy in Europe, doesn’t even move its navy out to assist its forces in NA.

May 2, 1611 : Pommern joined the war on the same side as Denmark and Hessen in their war against Sweden.

Sweden upsets some more people somehow

July 30, 1611 : Huron accepted peace with Sweden on the following terms : Full Annexation of Huron by Sweden

Sweden upsets someone and wins for once

March 5, 1613 : Sweden accepted peace with Hessen on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.
March 6, 1613 : Sweden accepted peace with Pommern on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.

Sweden manages to make peace successfully.

May 7, 1613 : Poland accepted peace with Russia on the following terms : Poland pays 75d in indemnities.

Poland gets stung badly…

January 2, 1614 : Russia declared war upon Sweden.

Sweden mouths off some more

February 19, 1614 : England declared war upon Benin.

I finally do something other than fight rebels and do my cheerleading bit on the touchline. Nothing really seems to be happening in the Franco-Austrian war. No gains no losses.

August 5, 1614 : Poland declared war upon Moldavia.
August 5, 1614 : Ukraine joined the war on the same side as Moldavia in their war against Poland. (Austria) Damocles (France)
November 9, 1614 : Ukraine accepted peace with Poland on the following terms : Full Annexation of Ukraine by Poland

After a rough patch Poland finally clears up the mess left over from previous conflicts.

December 16, 1614 : Sweden accepted peace with Denmark on the following terms : Sweden pays 63d in indemnities.

Sweden bits off too much to chew

July 21, 1615 : England accepted peace with Benin on the following terms : Ivoria to England & Accra to England.

I win a war- ‘surely not’ -ED

January 14, 1616 : Moldavia joined the war on the same side as Russia in their war against Sweden. (Austria) Teutonic_Knight (Poland)

Sweden upsets some quiet little country merely by existing. Or having a country that begins with an S followed by a W.

June 14, 1616 : Sweden accepted peace with Russia on the following terms : Kexholm to Sweden, Karelia to Sweden, Arkhangelsk to Sweden & Kola to Sweden.

OH- Sweden finally beats the AI, big celebration and cheers us up as Franco-Austrian conflict drags on with nothing happening. (I’m not going to touch on this too much as their AARs are up and good)

January 10, 1617 : Sweden is now granting Spain military access to their country
August 29, 1617 : Hannover declared war upon Sweden.

Sweden gets hello and fuck you confused when he tries to greet the player with the german language course he has been taking

September 20, 1617 : Strassburg became Vassals of France.
September 23, 1617 : The Palatinat became Vassals of France.

PEACE. France finally agrees to vassalise all its non- French provinces as a peace deal. Austria gets 2 provinces but has to cede Brandenberg. France faces massive rebellions across its country and is slowly but surely burning up and with threats from Sweden and England to join the war its looking grim. Huge Spanish subsidies keep France on the backfoot. Undefeated in the field France is stopped from conquering Europe by war exhaustion.

November 1, 1617 : Savoy declared war upon France.
January 30, 1618 : France accepted peace with Poland on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.

April 10, 1618 : Pommern declared war upon Sweden.
April 10, 1618 : Denmark joined the war on the same side as Pommern in their war against Sweden.

Oh dear me…..

September 25, 1618 : Savoy accepted peace with France on the following terms : Full Annexation of Savoy by France
November 11, 1618 : France accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Würzburg to Austria & Mainz to Austria. (Austria)

September 3, 1619 : England declared war upon Oman.

Oman has some tasty provinces in India and on the horn of Africa….

October 22, 1619 : Netherlands declared war upon Oman.

Netherlands joins in.


ANALYSIS

This would seem to be the end of an era. France has been comprehensively stopped from gaining continental hegemony but who are the winners and losers?

Austria has gained provinces and didn’t have to pay for much thanks to Spanish sliver. Its in a strong position, certainly a great deal stronger than it was at the beginning of the war, maybe even capable of standing up to further French aggression alone in the future.

England has lost out big time. All but cleared out of North America and financially devastated England is not a world player in any sense of the word.

Spain has spent 10’s of 1,000s keeping nations in the war against France. Was it worth it? Well Spain has had to directly fight France for most of the war. He has been able to romp all over the globe without France competing against him. Spain is a definite winner and is elected HRE at the end of the war. Spain has managed his economy well and has a massive economic tech lead.

France has lost out although he remains very powerful indeed. His strategy has failed for a number of reasons. He won a number of wars at the beginning, very well as well. But whilst his operational skills were unquestionable one has to look at his grand strategy. He is able to repeatedly knock over his chosen targets but they are repeatedly put up again by Spain. The coalition against him strengthens ever stronger every time he wins another war. Eventually though these mistakes they unite and form a strong enough front to take him down through war exhaustion.
France’s grand strategy is flawed as his actions only unite Europe strongly against him whilst he never manages to take out the real opposition which is Spain, in fact he barely ever fights Spain. Ulver lets others do his fighting whilst he operates in the new world. France doesn’t even attempt to take on Spain which is the country is directs and finances the war against him. He doesn’t build a navy to strike at vulnerable Spanish possessions he just keeps attacking a very heavily fortified Austria.
When it becomes clear that the end is nigh he does play a good end game and manages to swallow his pride and take what is a very good peace really.
France has missed out on building an empire and has slipped economically. It does remain strong though but it is not quite as overwhelmingly dangerous as it once was. What he does now will really determine whether he is capable of doing more than just fighting well.

Poland suffered badly at the beginning but was able to make a good comeback. He has realised that the rest of Europe is less interested in breaking down his empire and more interested in protecting what they have against France. He changes sides at a good time and secures his future which had started to look a bit bleak. I would say that Poland is a winner, it has survived and is strong enough to last a long time into the future despite the disadvantages it suffers

Sweden is another winner, he gains provinces in NA and is economically sorted out. How he does so well I’m not sure as he was continually at war with minors who seemed to beat him a lot. However, Sweden comes out a lot stronger than it was and is now no longer a bit player on the fringes of Europe.

I cant make my mind up about whether the Ottomans did well or not. They aren’t any weaker but are they established enough to resist the decline that most surely come? Its unclear. But they did contribute a lot to the war and insure there position on the edge of Europe as the major land power in a strong position to deal with Russia and Poland should they turn. By backing the alliance it has avoided a crusade against it which could be fatal especially in these years whilst it is still regarded a threat to Europe.

Holland is perhaps the country that benefits the most from the war. Read BiB;s AAR and you can see why, an economic powerhouse and secure in Europe with a fantastic empire in the east Indies. BiB emulates the dutch success and it can only go from strength to strength in the coming years. He manages to avoid most of the war by becoming a French vassal which allows him to take advantage of English and French absence in the the rest of the world. He plays a very good game indeed, politically he manages to avoid a disastrous war with France- he loses no territory, whilst keeping on good terms with Spain.
 

unmerged(2833)

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Indeed, an end to an era.

French incursion into HRE is finally ended. This means that peace in west europe can be finally achieved. Or will France will claim the chambers of reunion, and try to expand it's borders to the rhine, making second claim for what Austria considers the HRE?


Austria is by no means stronger than France, rather the opposite, the war hasn't strenghtened Austria that much. It was indeed paid mostly with Spanish gold, some 10'000 ducats arrived (Ulver conversation was hilarious but actually he got a point. When he sent me his biggest loan, about 4000d, i had already 4000d and about 9k free manpower:D)

But don't forget that the war lasted 17 full years, and i bought every single soldier i could, and lost them all against France. This means about a million soldiers, including few mercs i bought, were lost. And since i bought mainly cavalry (funny, at first mine and Damocles armies consisted of about 1/3-1/2 infantry, in the latter phase of war, first me, then he switched to almost exclusively cavalry armies), it means i spend about 9000 ducats at this war, not counting upgrading forts in Austria, which costed me 2000d. Seeing i only got provinces France couldn't relase as vassals, and also lost Brabant, my core province, quite valuable, to Netherlands, i'm really considering if i wasn't actually ripped of in the war i carried the burden essentially, though it's called 'coalition war'. Which makes me think if i really should get rid of Brandenburg, seeing as Ottoman Empire, Dutch and England are busy ripping off Oman, and Sweden just trashed Russia, Poland is waging war on Crimea. At least, i will convert them to catholicism before i relase them, if ever.


France expansion was ended, but don't forget that French heartland wasn't touched at all. Actually, France lost provinces which were liability rather than an asset. It's manpower is still way higher than Austrian, not to mention income, and Ottoman Empire is also much stronger than Habsburg German domains. To add insult to injury, Spain got elected HRE...
Which makes met think twice about letting all those petty German statelets having it's independence, after all i've done to reinstate HRE:D

Ah well. For sure, punishing Bohemians for instating "winter king" is the next Austrian objective. Scandinavian powers in HRE aren't exactly the thing that makes me smile. (Sweden holds Mecklemburg, and Denmark Bremen and Holstein)


I never denied that uniting Germany was my ultimate goal. Though i'm not going to subjugate any German member of the Hre. But if any other power wants to keep German soil, it can be sure to have Austria as it's mortal enemy.
 

ulver

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Thought I’d elaborate a bit on the thinking behind my gameplay

In a way I see the hundred-year feud between Spain and France as showdown between the thinking of Clausewitz in Paris and Sun-Tzu in Madrid. This is reflected in the very different ways we go about choosing and pursuing our national objectives. Our Californian military genius, not doubt having studied Clausewitz at length, is the apostle of relentless will, convinced there is no substitute for victory, while I’m something of a closet pacifist, weary of victory’s hollowness. The Policy of France has consistently been to sharpen the sword; mine has consistently aimed to restrain it.

Master Sun teaches us that the best military policy is to attack the enemy’s strategies rather then his forces. Perhaps the most famous quite being “To win a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; the highest excellence is to subdue the enemy’s army without fighting at all.”

I firmly believe that to be true. Obviously that is not always possible but it always remains the ideal to me. Of course I tend to pick countries that lend themselves to that kind of strategy. My most cherished victory in Empire in Arms were when I won the game playing as the Ottoman Empire without ever firing a single shot.

Queen Elisabeth the first is attributed as saying she disliked wars since she could never be certain of the outcome. I share that sentiment. A sentiment that is crucial to understanding why I choose the strategy I did. And I did choose a strategy – This was not just mindlessly pouring ducats into an anti-French crusade out of some gleeful malice. A strategy, I might add that was far from the obvious one at the time. In fact I can honestly say I embarked on my own style of campaign against the explicit advice of my allies.

When France began their advance into The Holy Roman Empire I began getting increasingly frantic calls for help from Vienna. Once French forces crossed the Rhine I got scared as it was quickly becoming clear that Austria would need massive help to survive. At the time Spain was 5 tech levels behind France her land tech and had spend her policy changes expanding her economy rather then improving her ability to fight. I was advised to close the technology gap and prepare to aid Austria on the battlefield. I can honestly say Mowers, as Austrian chancellor, was somewhat perturbed when I informed him that building up the Spanish army and land technology would not be a cost-effective use of resources. Instead I continue to pour every ducat of research onto infrastructure while my actual military build up was warships. I have explained my reasons for a strong Spanish navy at length in an earlier post but note the choice of weapon: I didn’t build a fleet to engage my enemies – I build it so I wouldn’t have to. Basically my fleet discouraged an attack by making sure the attacker couldn’t gain anything worthwhile.

Infrastructure, as we all know, gives the ability to control inflation so in this case it allowed be to take the remaining half of the Gold in America. Now, and only now, did I have virtually unlimited gold to give away but I still had a horrible gap in terms of military technology. There were also the facts that even if I did close the technology gap my domestic policy sliders were not set for waging war. Just being at war would lead to a considerable drop in income without my land forces being able to accomplish much. Selfish desire apart I honestly believed a neutral Spain was actually in a better position to impose her will on France then one actively engaged in hostilities.

To my mind the applicable concept here was the one that has formed the basis of economic theory since Adam Smith: The advantages of specialisation. Spain was specialised to earn gold, as a cash cow it was an invaluable asset in that regard; thus it would foolish to squander the advantages of specialisation by making her fight. Far better to transfer her gold to someone else. The way I sew it 1 ducat bought more leverage elsewhere then in Spanish soldiers fighting France. For one thing the stability cost of a DoW against France comes to about 10000 Ducats. I’m sure you will agree those 10000 ducats could better employed to buy Austrian mercenaries

One thing Clausewitz and Sun-Tzu agree on is that the goal is always to impose your will on the enemy. For all his tactical brilliance I think Damocles forgot this simple axiom. He openly stated a policy that would be intolerable to his neighbours, continual hegemony, and then failed to break our will to resist him. He advanced a bit at a time failing to press his advantage and ruthlessly crush his enemies thereby giving me time to put together a grand collation and transform gold into military assets blocking his ambition. In many ways he offered traditionally mild peace treaties after each successive victorious war. His state goal was effective control of the European continent to achieve that he needed to break our will to resist him, he needed to convince us, in the words of the Borg that “Resistance is futile” taking one province or a bundle of cash was never going to achieve that. A ‘mild’ peace only makes sense if at the same time you declare, “this is my last territorial demand in Europe” (unlike the other guy you may actually mean it) and then act conciliatory showing that you are not a mortal threat.

My verdict on Damocles thus far: Brilliant tactics, flawed strategy.
 
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Peter Ebbesen

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Speaking from the home of 'janteloven' - ulver, you know of what I speak :), this game could use an Austro-French axis aligned against Spain. Surely those two great continental powers can come to a friendly agreement on the division of spoils :D

I'll just add that I appreciate the players' detailed analysis. This is a truly great read. It not only showcases excellent strategies, it also consistently shows how the players can have very different ideas about exactly what is going on, and the armysize and manpower estimate discrepancies are truly priceless, as the players take turns overstating their enemies' numbers while understating their own - even in those cases where superior information from the Dutch Intelligence Service should be available.

And that's a dastardly and devious role, BiB. Supporting the grand coalition against your own overlord - and getting away with it. Oi! :D

Congratulations, yet again, to all the players on a great read.... And that's one huge Ottoman Empire :eek:
 

Damocles

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He advanced a bit at a time failing to press his advantage and ruthlessly crush his enemies thereby giving me time to put together a grand collation and transform gold into military assets blocking his ambition.

An all too accurate assessment, Ulver. I admittedly favor relatively swift, decisive wars, followed by a reasonable, honorable peace. I made it known that I was content, so far as my dominance was acknowledged and they didn't make trouble. I.E, fall in line with foreign policy. Yet, I had no desire to actively crush them. Perhaps it is a shortcoming I've developed from watching too many players get destroyed in a war, then quit the game after being extorted. When you're in a 400 year game with many of the same people, it is never much fun crushing a friend in 1434 for example.

However, as I bitterly remarked during the course of the war (Perhaps, as a testement to the Coalition's continual resourcefulness and adept strategy) that I would be loath to settle a peace deal in the future with the equilivant of a pat on the cheek and a firm handshake.

But everything you've said is true...And the opposing mindsets with which each side (Ok, so I'm a side unto myself) entered the conflict were markedly different reflecting each's combination of desperation and hope. I wasn't in that war to destroy, cripple my enemies, yet the other 6 (7 nominally including BiB) were. This added bit of drive proved decisive. Austria spent years before the war recruiting troops in advance, I was caught, to my dismay, with what I thought was an adequate army, but was proved otherwise when I noted that Austria must've been paying 50 ducats a month in army maintenance and ottomans were landing in numbers already 2 times my own by itself.

Thank God for French manpower, as it just barely allowed to me to meet the Coalition one a mostly equal basis manpower wise after the Ottomans were knocked out. That is, until Austria began getting generals.
 

Smirfy

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As the paint drys on the new European map (i ctd a couple of years before end of session hence the revolts and unfinished war.) the consequences of the settlement become evident. France having turned down my proposal (supported by Spain i may add) to turn over Her New World colonies to England will spell the decline of the Northern Protestant powers (England Denmark Sweden Hannover Holland etc) and the isolation of France.
Where's the reason in this I here from the subdued courts of Europe, is the Lion of the North drunk i hear from my illustrious neighbour in the America's. No I say! we will all drown under the weight of Spanish gold unless we can create a power in the Americas that can give their UNDIVIDED attention to eroding Spanish Power, also a revitalized Britain might be the Spur to bring your vassel (thats in the loose sense of the word as at the minute they are in Spains pocket) to realize the benifits of a northern alliance.How cocky will Austria be when Spains gold defends the New World and is flushed down the Pyranees. With no outside money and armies facing her on the Elbe Mass and Rhine and maybe our Moslem brothers will realize why travel to the south of France to wash their blood on your great bastions when they can set the Balkans aflame with the name of Islam. Poland to might see that it is more than a anti-partizan unit of the Hapsburgs(no Swedish forces were involved in these operations during last war) or their buffer against the emerging Russian bear and sieze the rich Carpathian provences to secure her place in the east.
Why give such charity you say.Your execellent and undevided generalship in continental Europe. The rich provences of Lombardy the Guardianship of the Papacy and French becoming the official language of Venice do not strike me as charity. They will be the fruits of your victory. You mercenary Swede what do you get. I am but after the freedom of the HRE giving freedom of religion to any country within, the establishment of Prussia(not likely under the Austrian tyrany) my expansion can be at Russias expense and in the lands north of the St Lawerence. My acceptance of a modest peace from a desperate though honoured foe is a sign of my good will.
The fate of Europe lies with Frances next move. Spain can no longer lose but with Brave actions the second round of the Thirty years may have a different outcome.



plz excuse any mistakes in grammer and spelling etc am rushed and in work
 
Last edited:

unmerged(2833)

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Originally posted by Damocles


An all too accurate assessment, Ulver. I admittedly favor relatively swift, decisive wars, followed by a reasonable, honorable peace. I made it known that I was content, so far as my dominance was acknowledged and they didn't make trouble. I.E, fall in line with foreign policy. Yet, I had no desire to actively crush them. Perhaps it is a shortcoming I've developed from watching too many players get destroyed in a war, then quit the game after being extorted. When you're in a 400 year game with many of the same people, it is never much fun crushing a friend in 1434 for example.

However, as I bitterly remarked during the course of the war (Perhaps, as a testement to the Coalition's continual resourcefulness and adept strategy) that I would be loath to settle a peace deal in the future with the equilivant of a pat on the cheek and a firm handshake.

But everything you've said is true...And the opposing mindsets with which each side (Ok, so I'm a side unto myself) entered the conflict were markedly different reflecting each's combination of desperation and hope. I wasn't in that war to destroy, cripple my enemies, yet the other 6 (7 nominally including BiB) were. This added bit of drive proved decisive. Austria spent years before the war recruiting troops in advance, I was caught, to my dismay, with what I thought was an adequate army, but was proved otherwise when I noted that Austria must've been paying 50 ducats a month in army maintenance and ottomans were landing in numbers already 2 times my own by itself.

Thank God for French manpower, as it just barely allowed to me to meet the Coalition one a mostly equal basis manpower wise after the Ottomans were knocked out. That is, until Austria began getting generals.
you are vastly overestimating my preparedeness. Actually, the war was direct consequence of your annexation of Palatinate, i would have wait another 5 years to prepare myself, or at least two, to replenish manpwoer pool which was at 0 at the beginning of the war.

This also means my initial maintenance costs of maybe 15 (at half), hadn't rose during next two years, as i didn't recruited more troops, instead waiting for manpower pool to replenish. It wasn't an issue later, too, as you attacked, and my army was cut down to size soon, my mainenance costs were never higher than 25d at full morale.

You are also forgetting that it WAS "peace deal with the equilivant of a pat on the cheek and a firm handshake"

If not, we would go even more, forcing you to relase your French vassals, then you would be effectively weaker than Austria, or maybe even Sweden. Peace we imposed on you only meant you lost your European conquests, whose didn't really contributed much to your country, except prestige maybe. And a lot of rebellious provinces;)
 

unmerged(2833)

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Originally posted by Smirfy
As the paint drys on the new European map (i ctd a couple of years before end of session hence the revolts and unfinished war.) the consequences of the settlement become evident. France having turned down my proposal (supported by Spain i may add) to turn over Her New World colonies to England will spell the decline of the Northern Protestant powers (England Denmark Sweden Hannover Holland etc) and the isolation of France.
Where's the reason in this I here from the subdued courts of Europe, is the Lion of the North drunk i hear from my illustrious neighbour in the America's. No I say! we will all drown under the weight of Spanish gold unless we can create a power in the Americas that can give their UNDIVIDED attention to eroding Spanish Power, also a revitalized Britain might be the Spur to bring your vassel (thats in the loose sense of the word as at the minute they are in Spains pocket) to realize the benifits of a northern alliance.How cocky will Austria be when Spains gold defends the New World and is flushed down the Pyranees. With no outside money and armies facing her on the Elbe Mass and Rhine and maybe our Moslem brothers will realize why travel to the south of France to wash their blood on your great bastions when they can set the Balkans aflame with the name of Islam. Poland to might see that it is more than a anti-partizan unit of the Hapsburgs(no Swedish forces were involved in these operations during last war) or their buffer against the emerging Russian bear and sieze the rich Carpathian provences to secure her place in the east.
Why give such charity you say.Your execellent and undevided generalship in continental Europe. The rich provences of Lombardy the Guardianship of the Papacy and French becoming the official language of Venice do not strike me as charity. They will be the fruits of your victory. You mercenary Swede what do you get. I am but after the freedom of the HRE giving freedom of religion to any country within, the establishment of Prussia(not likely under the Austrian tyrany) my expansion can be at Russias expense and in the lands north of the St Lawerence. My acceptance of a modest peace from a desperate though honoured foe is a sign of my good will.
The fate of Europe lies with Frances next move. Spain can no longer loose but with Brave actions the second round of the Thirty years may have a different outcome.



plz excuse any mistakes in grammer and spelling etc am rushed and in work
Sweden trying to allign with France and England against Spain?
(I bet Netherlands will stay neutral if no one is going to force them into war:D)

You ask me what will i do if Spain will stop paying me for war? Depends which war it will be. If against Spain only, i will simply bail out of course. Spanish reluctance to recognize my claims on HRE cooled down inter-Habsburg relations a bit lately:D

Poland was actually the only one country which stand bravely alongside Austria in it's war against France, and suffered big war exhaustion. It might be as well Polish help which convinced France that their offensive in northern Germany isn't going to achieve anything. Sweden contribution to war was rather small, compared to amount of ducats sent to them by Spain...

Ottoman Empire allying with France? That would indeed make me scared.

As about your talking about the Holy Roman Empire... though nobody recognize my claim to it in general yet, you are surely aware that Austria does have legal claim to Mecklemburg, as it belonged to us before you took it.


(btw, are we going to replace netherlands with something else? Or is it Poland who will gave it's place for Russia?)
 
M

Mowers

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Originally posted by Damocles


An all too accurate assessment, Ulver. I admittedly favor relatively swift, decisive wars, followed by a reasonable, honorable peace. I made it known that I was content, so far as my dominance was acknowledged and they didn't make trouble. I.E, fall in line with foreign policy. Yet, I had no desire to actively crush them. Perhaps it is a shortcoming I've developed from watching too many players get destroyed in a war, then quit the game after being extorted. When you're in a 400 year game with many of the same people, it is never much fun crushing a friend in 1434 for example.

However, as I bitterly remarked during the course of the war (Perhaps, as a testement to the Coalition's continual resourcefulness and adept strategy) that I would be loath to settle a peace deal in the future with the equilivant of a pat on the cheek and a firm handshake.

But everything you've said is true...And the opposing mindsets with which each side (Ok, so I'm a side unto myself) entered the conflict were markedly different reflecting each's combination of desperation and hope. I wasn't in that war to destroy, cripple my enemies, yet the other 6 (7 nominally including BiB) were. This added bit of drive proved decisive. Austria spent years before the war recruiting troops in advance, I was caught, to my dismay, with what I thought was an adequate army, but was proved otherwise when I noted that Austria must've been paying 50 ducats a month in army maintenance and ottomans were landing in numbers already 2 times my own by itself.

hmm,

At the end of the day you lost 2 territories and vassalised a couple more. Hardly a big setback, you pointed out that we could have fleeced you. But do you understand why we were so lenient? And more importantly why we fought so hard to survive against you?

In big, proper, long term games against vaguely reasonable players the destruction of france would have again upset the balance of power but this time in the other direction. Most of wanted a strong france because we need you to ensure that neither Spain nor Austria tries to do what you attempted to do. Most of the players want a strong France but they dont want a France that was going to rampage across Europe.

Also if we had gone on to trash france there would have been a war between those who wanted a powerful France and those that didnt.

For all your tactical ability you failed to divert attention from yourself, indeed you actively attracted it. This isnt a wargame its a BoP game.

Classic example. You invade very rich provinces but you dont vassalise any of them, not a single one, which is just asking for trouble. I first noticed this at the begining when I started to vassalise off a few provinces- your reaction to my moves? "You are funny mowers". I thought then that you didnt seem to grasp how the game is meant to be played and that you cant get achieve hegemony through sheer aggression, (or as someone once very simply sumed up " lets have a game and just all meet up in the middle after we have taken out the AI" -Age of Empires style game) and that a coalition against you would have to be arranged. Indeed, your hegemonic attempts were based on fear alone, rather than a combination of stick and carrot. ( read your own words above) If you had vassallised half of the provinces you invaded you may have avoided the war and would be a top runner in the colonial race.

Example no.2- You rightly claim that you dont trash other countries and this is the correct way of strategic thinking. But you point out that you do this because you basically a nice guy and that losers drop- which is true, but it totally misses the point.

In many respects the coalition against you didnt harden quickly at the begining because you were reasonably lenient and not madly aggresive. Indeed I had real problems rallying support against you. Now can you imagine what would have happened if you had knocked a player totally out of the game? The anti- French feeling would have gone through the roof and you would have played the W.E. round robin game much earlier on and to a much more unpleasant end.

Its strategic nonsense to trash other countries in this sort of game as everyone else will simply turn on you and W.E. you back to 1419. Sure if you are playing for a couple of hours in a one off then so what? But I run long term games in which that sort of style of play, which is deeply flawed, doesnt pay.

In addition, you often claimed that you would never be lenient again during the war if we didnt pull back but that only hardened our resolve and undermined your cause as 'underdog' and thus you forced us closer together against you.

However, having said all that what ensured your surival as a major and probably your greatest politcal moment was that you finally stopped saying that you were going to smash us all in the next session and accepted a reasonable peace as the loser, which I was impressed with as in the end you saved France from a terrible defeat and an even worse fate by a simple back down that cost you stuff all.

In conclusion- a general point to all. EU is not about annexing all the minor AI nations and then fighting it out, its about a careful and continual reexamination of who is winning. Blatent aggression will attract attention to yourself and is to your inevitable detriment. Whilst expansion is necessary and important dont concentrate on what you need to conquer, concentrate on what others are trying to conquer. There are numerous under utilised diplomatic tools to do follow this strategy effectively. Protect minors and bring them into your fold, dont engage in this silly land grabbing business that I see all to often. It only takes a couple of players with an understanding of this concept in a game to ensure that any would be aggressor is quickly put out of business.
 

Damocles

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Actually, Poland wanted white peace, but I refused. Why shouldn't they suffer for going turncoat? ;)

Again, Maur...I do not know how you mean by me getting off easy. In 17 years, not a single province of mine was actually conquered except for a couple colonies and TPs.

Now, I could have dragged the war out decades yet. Granted, it would see France in flames vs a Spain, OE and England entering and re entering, but I could have. As it is, I was inclined to see France remain economically sound.

Still however, I lost eleven provinces. Eleven rich provinces that had been mine for a few of them, a hundred years. Provinces I had painstakingly converted to catholocism that were a stable part of my empire and providing around 20 in manpower.

What I received, was the equilivant of a Versailles treaty that France inflicted on Germany partly in revenge for Prussian victory in 1874 (ish).

I may not be the pre-eminent power in europe anymore, but I still have not chosen whose camp to find myself in. My predecessors (besides BiB) disastrously strove to max quality, and it has been a involved process lowering it down notch by notch. Or perhaps, France will retire to a peaceful private existance?
 
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ulver

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Satan (cool name btw): In Empire in Arms the ottomans are the only nation that scores sufficient points without winning any battles - not losing any is sufficient. Hard enough given their rotten morale and minuscule economy but still.

Blade: The maps are the latest position. I always post a screenshot at the end of a session if there have been any changes.

Smirfy: You do realise I can crush Sweden like an eggshell? The only power that could effectively intervene would be the Dutch Republic and they have absolutely no reason to do so. Publicly proposing an anti-Spanish collation when you are totally unable to protect yourself against Spain might not be the smartest move. Apart from me France and the Netherlands can take over your North American colonies without much difficulty and you are holding German lands – something I’m sure Austria is less then pleased with - while your Baltic possessions are partly Polish core provinces. You might consider being a bit more careful

Damocles: In no way did I wage war to crush or destroy France If I had, frankly, the map would be dotted with a fascinating collections of minors were France used to be. I actually think the collation offered quite reasonable terms all things considered. I would remind you that France currently hold two Spanish core provinces and I personally went against the advice of several collation members by letting you keep one of them (Milan) You showed real character as a player by accepting the inevitable and making the best peace you could without throwing a tantrum. Had you refused France would have been stripped of all colonies both Spanish Core provinces and Savoy would have been made independent. Add to that that we might well have seen France simply fall apart. I honestly do not feel the terms imposed were particularly harsh. You have to understand that neither Austria nor Spain could accept a France expanding deep into Germany and claming hegemony in Europe. I didn’t spend some 50000 ducats because I hate you or because you were an easy bogyman. I did it because I was genuinely terrified of your power and the way you were using it. I was in no way criticizing your standard method of short swift wars followed by mercy in peace. That is the way I prefer to do it. I’m simply pointing out that – in this case – such a tactic did not support your strategy. It works fine for what are essentially political football matches.

Crossing the Rhine into Germany in force is violating a vital Austrian interest, declaring your intention to dominate Europe makes it an existential life or death struggle from an Austrian viewpoint – and if Austria goes so goes I. Without Austria Spain is completely at the mercy of France. This was not some minor skirmish over where to draw the border this was about life and death for me. You did show great restraint when you were victorious don’t think we didn’t noticed. That is why I took what I consider minimal steeps to ensure my safety and that of my Austrian ally. You will noticed that we did not strip your core provinces I had to argue at length to assure you kept Savoy and faced really stiff resistance to letting you keep Milan. (I had to repeatedly point out it was mine core province and that I didn’t mind)

This was no Carthaginian peace.

Yes the war was unfair and I don’t think anyone could have fought it better then you did. But if I start a war and it is a fair fight I haven’t done my homework. After all Sun-Tzu teaches us only to fight a battel when you have alrady won.

(Tip for fighting those giant collations in the future: refuse to make peace with any member until they all do – the weakest link may pressure the others to settle because he is breaking apart)
 
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unmerged(2833)

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Originally posted by Damocles
Actually, Poland wanted white peace, but I refused. Why shouldn't they suffer for going turncoat? ;)
Oh, i forgot that. That would be for determination of my allies:D

Originally posted by Damocles

Again, Maur...I do not know how you mean by me getting off easy. In 17 years, not a single province of mine was actually conquered except for a couple colonies and TPs.

Now, I could have dragged the war out decades yet. Granted, it would see France in flames vs a Spain, OE and England entering and re entering, but I could have. As it is, I was inclined to see France remain economically sound.
Damocles, don't be so blind. You lost this war, French army wasn't backstabbed by socialist at home, it was defeated on field. You could drag this war for decades? Not at all. My country was stable and revolts weren't going to be a problem at all.
I wouldn't actually capture your provinces. Too much troubly keeping province which has 20 RR. i would just chase your armies, preventing you from retaking rebel held provinces. This would cut your manpower too, as occupied provinces don't contribute, and income too.

Just check the losses, and rething the progress of the war. It wasn't coincindence it started with me defending, and ended with my armies crossing Rhine every one a while. Your position was steadily worsening, at it wasn't a coincindence, the war went almost exactly as i planned, except for your ability to catch my plundering forces, and your reluctance to attack my troops in Austria, which i hoped you will do.


Originally posted by Damocles

Still however, I lost eleven provinces. Eleven rich provinces that had been mine for a few of them, a hundred years. Provinces I had painstakingly converted to catholocism that were a stable part of my empire and providing around 20 in manpower.

What I received, was the equilivant of a Versailles treaty that France inflicted on Germany partly in revenge for Prussian victory in 1874 (ish).

I will not forget it. I may not be the pre-eminent power anymore, but I still have not chosen whose camp to find myself in. My predecessors (besides BiB) disastrously strove to max quality, and it has been a involved process lowering it down notch by notch. Or perhaps, France will retire to a peaceful private existance?
Yes, you lost eleven provinces. Quite much that's fact. Though considering you have 160 manpower, 20 isn't that much ;).

I don't want you to forget it. What i would like is reconciliation between Austria and France, on basis you drop your ambitions to enter Germany again. Including territory you will claim in Chambers of Reunion. Revenge won't let you anywhere, it will only throw me more into Spanish arms.

Versailles you say? Don't make German mistake, don't seek revenge.