??
He's done most of this, but not all of it. Compare and contrast with Damocles initially stated goals.
edit: changed 'some' to 'most'. Rereading it didn't say what I meant.
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??
He's done most of this, but not all of it. Compare and contrast with Damocles initially stated goals.
edit: changed 'some' to 'most'. Rereading it didn't say what I meant.
Well my strategy and goals were somewhat affected by the fact that Austria conspired to have Spain destroyed.
I’ve been racking my brains trying to come up with a set-up that works. No matter how one slices it we really need more then 8 players. Simply letting the Netherlands go will mean they are sure to be politically annexed by France something I suspect no one can really live with.
Just got a crazy idea. How about simply letting England inherit the Netherlands? Weird but things like that did happen historically. With one stroke it would free up a player for Prussia and re-create dynamism both on the continent and in the colonies. It would create areas of tension with both Spain and France but it would also allow England to assume her historical role.
It would create something of a monster. If necessary we could let some colonies go free but consider that she would have crappy tech and the wrong religion in most colonies. Also with Anglo-Saxon state culture only her income would not be that insane.
Hell we could even make a real USA by letting the southernmost English colonies be released and pushing the Florida purchase forward a century. There are some really rich provinces in what is the southern states of the US today and that event would hand them all over creating a viable USA.
Just got a crazy idea. How about simply letting England inherit the Netherlands? Weird but things like that did happen historically. With one stroke it would free up a player for Prussia and re-create dynamism both on the continent and in the colonies. It would create areas of tension with both Spain and France but it would also allow England to assume her historical role.
It would create something of a monster. If necessary we could let some colonies go free but consider that she would have crappy tech and the wrong religion in most colonies. Also with Anglo-Saxon state culture only her income would not be that insane.
Hell we could even make a real USA by letting the southernmost English colonies be released and pushing the Florida purchase forward a century. There are some really rich provinces in what is the southern states of the US today and that event would hand them all over creating a viable USA.
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Here is the current situation along the French-Austrian border.
Note how manpower is at 251, even after all of that building up and with not a single conscription center. Which basically gives me the ability to put an additional quarter of a million cavalry in the field before Villars even reaches Ruthenia. The morale is at very strong because of half maintenance, though it would raise to invincible. The cost to keep almost a million troops at full maintenance is 30-40. I am making about 400 a month. Inflation is at 0. I could go full treasurey for the rest of the game and still have provinces left to build a mayor if I built one every year.
Prince Eugene is leading the 25k Austrian army near the top of the screen.
Note how manpower is at 251, even after all of that building up and with not a single conscription center. Which basically gives me the ability to put an additional quarter of a million cavalry in the field before Villars even reaches Ruthenia. The morale is at very strong because of half maintenance, though it would raise to invincible. The cost to keep almost a million troops at full maintenance is 30-40. I am making about 400 a month. Inflation is at 0. I could go full treasurey for the rest of the game and still have provinces left to build a mayor if I built one every year.
Prince Eugene is leading the 25k Austrian army near the top of the screen.
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Why is Austria's flag red and white instead of the black eagle on yellow? France's flag is different too. What's with that?
P.S. I noticed you guys have reached war of maneuver. Are you in the 30s or 40s? Cya, bye!
P.S. I noticed you guys have reached war of maneuver. Are you in the 30s or 40s? Cya, bye!
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Looks very likely we'll end up having a Prussia and USA soon. Quite a few players want them in and there are precedents for so it should most likely happen. This however means other nations should go. Sadly as there are more than 8 interesting nations to play.
Now I've heard the Netherlands mentioned a lot here and I have to disagree vehemently. It isn't in decline as historically and it's in much better shape than a lot of other player nations.
I hear the critique that it can't act independently or stand on its own. Well surprise, that goes for all but 3 nations. With manpower working the way as it is only Russia, France and the OE can fight on their own.
Not even Spain, the richest, most enlightened nation can pull that off. But no one is considering dropping Spain. Because they can pay others to fight for them. And it needs to do that and Spain in this game realises that. Notice how they never have stood alone so far. First they had Austria, now France.
Well, Holland is doing just that too. From the moment I entered the game with 3 provs I struck a deal with France. Just like Spain I found a nation to fight my wars for me. I pay them thru vassalization and assorted lump sums, covering their arse with a fleet and so on. It was my suggestion, part of my plan and France agreed as it was also beneficial to them. France can build the biggest, baddest army out there while relying on me for fleet support and money and the Netherlands are secure army wise. We're complementary nations. It's a strategical alliance I set up. Xure, France clearly is the senior partner but that doesn't detract anything from the Netherlands. Xure, with England out of the game and Spain in France's camp, France hasn't really needed that navy but it was always covered.
Now compare that to Sweden, England, USA, Prussia, ... Those nations cannot fight a war on their own AND they cannot pay another nation to help them. Why the Dutch Republic should be ousted before them is beyond me. Because we have a strategical alliance with France that lasts the whole game? Why would I leave a winning team? People rate Spain as game winner because of its play but the Netherlands who played the very same game and are good at it would be thrown out?
Now I've heard the Netherlands mentioned a lot here and I have to disagree vehemently. It isn't in decline as historically and it's in much better shape than a lot of other player nations.
I hear the critique that it can't act independently or stand on its own. Well surprise, that goes for all but 3 nations. With manpower working the way as it is only Russia, France and the OE can fight on their own.
Not even Spain, the richest, most enlightened nation can pull that off. But no one is considering dropping Spain. Because they can pay others to fight for them. And it needs to do that and Spain in this game realises that. Notice how they never have stood alone so far. First they had Austria, now France.
Well, Holland is doing just that too. From the moment I entered the game with 3 provs I struck a deal with France. Just like Spain I found a nation to fight my wars for me. I pay them thru vassalization and assorted lump sums, covering their arse with a fleet and so on. It was my suggestion, part of my plan and France agreed as it was also beneficial to them. France can build the biggest, baddest army out there while relying on me for fleet support and money and the Netherlands are secure army wise. We're complementary nations. It's a strategical alliance I set up. Xure, France clearly is the senior partner but that doesn't detract anything from the Netherlands. Xure, with England out of the game and Spain in France's camp, France hasn't really needed that navy but it was always covered.
Now compare that to Sweden, England, USA, Prussia, ... Those nations cannot fight a war on their own AND they cannot pay another nation to help them. Why the Dutch Republic should be ousted before them is beyond me. Because we have a strategical alliance with France that lasts the whole game? Why would I leave a winning team? People rate Spain as game winner because of its play but the Netherlands who played the very same game and are good at it would be thrown out?
This is how I see the Europe of 1711.
Prussia was edited from Poland to Austria so that when vassalized it would get Austrian tech. I then edited Austria's north German annexations to Prussia including Mainz and Wurzburg because they can't be vassalized anymore.
Kleves, Baden and Wurtemburg was also vassalized by France. Prussia would be given tacit agreement to annex Saxony and to relieve Poland of Poznan and Wielkopoloska as well.
Whoever takes over as Prussia will likely have quite the interesting experience. As can clearly be seen, Prussia would have many possible goals and objectives to meet. There is a infinitely hostile Austria to the south, Sweden to the north, an Mother Russia across the horizon just waiting for the opportunity to attempt and take Poland. Which might cause for some very peculiar alliances to form against it.
Here is the possible Europe of 1711 in it's entirety.
Prussia was edited from Poland to Austria so that when vassalized it would get Austrian tech. I then edited Austria's north German annexations to Prussia including Mainz and Wurzburg because they can't be vassalized anymore.
Kleves, Baden and Wurtemburg was also vassalized by France. Prussia would be given tacit agreement to annex Saxony and to relieve Poland of Poznan and Wielkopoloska as well.
Whoever takes over as Prussia will likely have quite the interesting experience. As can clearly be seen, Prussia would have many possible goals and objectives to meet. There is a infinitely hostile Austria to the south, Sweden to the north, an Mother Russia across the horizon just waiting for the opportunity to attempt and take Poland. Which might cause for some very peculiar alliances to form against it.
Here is the possible Europe of 1711 in it's entirety.
Prussia in there... I don't see them being really capable of taking anything from Austria. I, personally, think that it is in everyone's best interests for Bayern and Ansbach to be Prussian instead of Austrian.
#The Creation of Super England-Holland#
event = {
id = 999999
random = no
country = ENG
name = "Great Great Great Britain"
desc = "Europe was shocked when the last member of the house of Orange died under mysteries circumstances leaving the King of England as the only heir. The always independent minded North American colonists were determined not to be joined in any union with bloody foreigners"
style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1511 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }
action_a = { #Create England-Holland#
name = "My God! We have created a monster!!!"
command = { type = inherit which = HOL }
command = { type = independence which = USA }
command = { type = breakvassal which = USA}
}
}
Well BiB the above is my suggestion. It would allow England to fulfill her historical role both as a colonial power and as the guy preserving the BoP on the continent. Creating the US in Savanna would allow us to push forward the Florida land purchase. (Surely I can sell my stuff to the US if I want to). With The Florida land purchase we’d actually have a workable United States.
Even as a AI country I’m keen on getting the USA into the action. Given that the bulk of their starting territory will be Iberian I’d suggest we add both French and Iberian culture to their starting cultures.
I’ll post a screenshot of what it would look like.
event = {
id = 999999
random = no
country = ENG
name = "Great Great Great Britain"
desc = "Europe was shocked when the last member of the house of Orange died under mysteries circumstances leaving the King of England as the only heir. The always independent minded North American colonists were determined not to be joined in any union with bloody foreigners"
style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1511 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }
action_a = { #Create England-Holland#
name = "My God! We have created a monster!!!"
command = { type = inherit which = HOL }
command = { type = independence which = USA }
command = { type = breakvassal which = USA}
}
}
Well BiB the above is my suggestion. It would allow England to fulfill her historical role both as a colonial power and as the guy preserving the BoP on the continent. Creating the US in Savanna would allow us to push forward the Florida land purchase. (Surely I can sell my stuff to the US if I want to). With The Florida land purchase we’d actually have a workable United States.
Even as a AI country I’m keen on getting the USA into the action. Given that the bulk of their starting territory will be Iberian I’d suggest we add both French and Iberian culture to their starting cultures.
I’ll post a screenshot of what it would look like.
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some opinions from observer
Firstly I’d like to say that I have been following this forum for couple of months although never posted (I just don’t like doing so). I have also followed MGC from very beginning. I must compliment all players participating, let just say that brilliance of your play actually forced me to register so I could post.
Now to the point:
Gentlemen I must say that you play magnificent game, the below estimation is not estimation of you as persons but it is merely to outline my view on how successful you were in achieving your goals.
Dramatis Personae:
Damocles – king of France , Dictator of Europe
DarthMaur- last kaiser of Greater Austrian Reich
Ulver – king of Spain, ruler of the greatest colonial empire, and political foul
PJL – “allies? Abandon them!”, Caliph
Jonicro – Tsar of Russia – the unready
Smirfy – king of Sweden –Dictator’s personal propaganda minister
BiB , “lets build another refinery”– Stadholder , merchant
Their political goals were:
Damocles – to rule Europe – goal achieved
DarthMaur – creation of Greater Austrian Reich – failed (although narrowly)
Ulver – protect Balance of Power – failure
PJL – Unite Islam – 80% success
Jonicro – to early to answer that
Smirfy - ? (possibly be vassal of France
than 100% success)
BiB – to build merchant empire – 90% success, however political failure (vassal of France)
I have noticed many that posted here think Ulver to be winner. Now I don’t share this opinion. Ulver was brilliantly managing game to the point in which he destroyed his alliance with Austria. In that very moment any chance to protect BoP was gone. I must say that Ulver is extremely successful in his domestic policies, however his greatest weaknesses are military and diplomacy (yes diplomacy). Ulver was outmaneuvered by Damocles like a child. The Dictator I admit showed exceptional diplomatic skills (he even managed to convince poor Ulver that he is” bull in a glasshouse”). The infamous zimmerman cable performed by Maur was greatest diplomatic mistake but it wasn’t Maur’s mistake but Ulver’s. Maur would have assisted Ulver in case of French attack despite his talks with Damocles, they were aimed only at acquiring free hand in Germany. I am sure there were many such discussions between players, but Damocles let Ulver see this particular one just to achive one thing, and Ulver did exactly as he was told – breaking ties with Austria. Given manpower superiority (and this is the only factor that is important in multiplayer) of France I must applaud way in which Maur managed Austria(especially high quality surprise attack plan). Pity that his skills in internal policies and those shown on battlefield were not equaled by his political abilities. The great war was forced upon Austria by France, and that it was formally declared by Austria is absolutely unimportant (althoug Ulver was easily blinded by French diplomacy again and again seeing this as an Austrian aggression). Just look at the situation before the war- France was preventing Austria from unifying Germany and it was the only aim of Austria in the game. Moreover French aggressions in Italy were left unopposed, and after event of Reunion Austria was forced to voluntarily give up some provinces to France (not to mention French intrusions into HRE – e.g. Kleeves). And most importantly French standing policy resolve was “let’s crush Austria” – Damocles threatened war if anything in Europe or even as far as India went contrary to his whims – even if Austria wasn’t part to it e.g. conflict over Mughals)
Therefore only way for Austria to remain alive was preemptive strike on France. It was necessary to do it before CC arrive. And exactly that is what Maur did. He failed due to his allies – Ottomans that abandoned him going after stupid island that could be theirs after crushing France anyway. And Russia as usual unready – another hundred thousand cavalry send to France and victory would be on coalition side.
Now awards:
Best foreign policy: 1. Damocles 2. Smirfy 3. BiB 4. Jonicro 5. PJL 6. Maur 7.Ulver
Best internal policy: 1. BiB 2. Ulver 3. Maur 4-7 others
Best colonial policy: 1. Ulver 2. BiB 3-7 others
Best military conduct 1. Damocles 2. Maur 3. PJL 4-7 others
Special award : Worst European Policy: Ulver (sorry but that is my opinion- you completely failed your EUROPEAN goal)
Firstly I’d like to say that I have been following this forum for couple of months although never posted (I just don’t like doing so). I have also followed MGC from very beginning. I must compliment all players participating, let just say that brilliance of your play actually forced me to register so I could post.
Now to the point:
Gentlemen I must say that you play magnificent game, the below estimation is not estimation of you as persons but it is merely to outline my view on how successful you were in achieving your goals.
Dramatis Personae:
Damocles – king of France , Dictator of Europe
DarthMaur- last kaiser of Greater Austrian Reich
Ulver – king of Spain, ruler of the greatest colonial empire, and political foul
PJL – “allies? Abandon them!”, Caliph
Jonicro – Tsar of Russia – the unready
Smirfy – king of Sweden –Dictator’s personal propaganda minister
BiB , “lets build another refinery”– Stadholder , merchant
Their political goals were:
Damocles – to rule Europe – goal achieved
DarthMaur – creation of Greater Austrian Reich – failed (although narrowly)
Ulver – protect Balance of Power – failure
PJL – Unite Islam – 80% success
Jonicro – to early to answer that
Smirfy - ? (possibly be vassal of France
than 100% success)BiB – to build merchant empire – 90% success, however political failure (vassal of France)
I have noticed many that posted here think Ulver to be winner. Now I don’t share this opinion. Ulver was brilliantly managing game to the point in which he destroyed his alliance with Austria. In that very moment any chance to protect BoP was gone. I must say that Ulver is extremely successful in his domestic policies, however his greatest weaknesses are military and diplomacy (yes diplomacy). Ulver was outmaneuvered by Damocles like a child. The Dictator I admit showed exceptional diplomatic skills (he even managed to convince poor Ulver that he is” bull in a glasshouse”). The infamous zimmerman cable performed by Maur was greatest diplomatic mistake but it wasn’t Maur’s mistake but Ulver’s. Maur would have assisted Ulver in case of French attack despite his talks with Damocles, they were aimed only at acquiring free hand in Germany. I am sure there were many such discussions between players, but Damocles let Ulver see this particular one just to achive one thing, and Ulver did exactly as he was told – breaking ties with Austria. Given manpower superiority (and this is the only factor that is important in multiplayer) of France I must applaud way in which Maur managed Austria(especially high quality surprise attack plan). Pity that his skills in internal policies and those shown on battlefield were not equaled by his political abilities. The great war was forced upon Austria by France, and that it was formally declared by Austria is absolutely unimportant (althoug Ulver was easily blinded by French diplomacy again and again seeing this as an Austrian aggression). Just look at the situation before the war- France was preventing Austria from unifying Germany and it was the only aim of Austria in the game. Moreover French aggressions in Italy were left unopposed, and after event of Reunion Austria was forced to voluntarily give up some provinces to France (not to mention French intrusions into HRE – e.g. Kleeves). And most importantly French standing policy resolve was “let’s crush Austria” – Damocles threatened war if anything in Europe or even as far as India went contrary to his whims – even if Austria wasn’t part to it e.g. conflict over Mughals)
Therefore only way for Austria to remain alive was preemptive strike on France. It was necessary to do it before CC arrive. And exactly that is what Maur did. He failed due to his allies – Ottomans that abandoned him going after stupid island that could be theirs after crushing France anyway. And Russia as usual unready – another hundred thousand cavalry send to France and victory would be on coalition side.
Now awards:
Best foreign policy: 1. Damocles 2. Smirfy 3. BiB 4. Jonicro 5. PJL 6. Maur 7.Ulver
Best internal policy: 1. BiB 2. Ulver 3. Maur 4-7 others
Best colonial policy: 1. Ulver 2. BiB 3-7 others
Best military conduct 1. Damocles 2. Maur 3. PJL 4-7 others
Special award : Worst European Policy: Ulver (sorry but that is my opinion- you completely failed your EUROPEAN goal)
BiB,
More comments from an interested observer.
You made some good points about the Netherlands - you seem to have played a good game, but the difference between the Dutch and Spanish is that at least it looks like the Spanish are capable of asserting an independant foreign policy, whereas the Dutch seem to be too dependant on the French.
The game has become much too static mostly because nobody seems will to break their agreements. This seems to have happened because nobody is trying to "win". For the French to have definately won, they must weaken Spain somehow. For the Spanish to win (if they aren't already winning), they must contain the French. As long as both of those players are relatively happy with the status quo then the game stagnates (though I'm sure there will be some interesting things going on).
Any game where the top two, maybe three powers are firm allies will have problems. There must be a contest between the top nations.
Sure, the Dutch are (or will be) probably in a very respectable third or fourth place, but is that likely to change? They could continue to become a more powerful third, but could they ever reach second? Can they split from the Frenc orbit?
I have seen Diplomacy and EiA games go very similarly - there has to be movement in alliances or the games go downhill.
More comments from an interested observer.
You made some good points about the Netherlands - you seem to have played a good game, but the difference between the Dutch and Spanish is that at least it looks like the Spanish are capable of asserting an independant foreign policy, whereas the Dutch seem to be too dependant on the French.
The game has become much too static mostly because nobody seems will to break their agreements. This seems to have happened because nobody is trying to "win". For the French to have definately won, they must weaken Spain somehow. For the Spanish to win (if they aren't already winning), they must contain the French. As long as both of those players are relatively happy with the status quo then the game stagnates (though I'm sure there will be some interesting things going on).
Any game where the top two, maybe three powers are firm allies will have problems. There must be a contest between the top nations.
Sure, the Dutch are (or will be) probably in a very respectable third or fourth place, but is that likely to change? They could continue to become a more powerful third, but could they ever reach second? Can they split from the Frenc orbit?
I have seen Diplomacy and EiA games go very similarly - there has to be movement in alliances or the games go downhill.
I strongly agree. There is going to be a change of sorts to get this game back on its feet in the style of what the MGC is about. I'm going to have some long chats with Ulver about what to do next, even if I'm not at all keen on his current idea of an English Dutch Union.
Why don't u guys just play (with situation in Germany as in Damocles's screenshot)?
it would be very interesting whether France will be the dominant power till 1819 or something will change
It seems like nobody is arguing against such plan
p. s. the problems with changing players will arise only in 1750s IMHO
it would be very interesting whether France will be the dominant power till 1819 or something will change
It seems like nobody is arguing against such plan
p. s. the problems with changing players will arise only in 1750s IMHO
One must take in account the potential of a nation. Manpower rules all in MP. Hence being a strong 3rd as the Netherlands is an extremely good position.
As I said before, apart from 3 nations, no one can act independently. IF Spain seems to do so anyway it's only that, seemingly. Just because mine are very much along the lines of France doesn't mean we don't have one, just means that we're a strong team with common, complementary interests. Still, coming back to the point about nations being dropped, if the Dutch are too dependant on France in ur opinion I can name more nations that are more dependent on others (like england after being propped up for years still being the weakest human nation) so the Dutch shouldn't go. Anyway, most diplomacy goes on behind the screens and doesn't get out
I do agree about the game being somewhat stale once the top powers collaborate, I started this all because it didn't look like changing at all.
IF the Habsburgs hadn't broken we'd most likely have ended up with a French-Dutch combo allied with the Ottomans and Sweden against the Habsburg combo allied with Russia and England. Instead the 2 leders of those alliances got into bed together.
I don't like the inheritance event either. It'd create a large, yes, colonial power but one that is hopelessly out of touch techwise, will have lots of cultural and relious trouble, and will end up not fulfilling its role yet again. We know by now a strong England would be very nice, but we must face facts here, there isn't one and move on with that reality. We tried propping up in all kinds of fashion and it is still the weakest player nation. Just put it out of its misery already.
Originally posted by Damocles
This is how I see the Europe of 1711.
Prussia was edited from Poland to Austria so that when vassalized it would get Austrian tech. I then edited Austria's north German annexations to Prussia including Mainz and Wurzburg because they can't be vassalized anymore.
Kleves, Baden and Wurtemburg was also vassalized by France. Prussia would be given tacit agreement to annex Saxony and to relieve Poland of Poznan and Wielkopoloska as well.
Whoever takes over as Prussia will likely have quite the interesting experience. As can clearly be seen, Prussia would have many possible goals and objectives to meet. There is a infinitely hostile Austria to the south, Sweden to the north, an Mother Russia across the horizon just waiting for the opportunity to attempt and take Poland. Which might cause for some very peculiar alliances to form against it.
Here is the possible Europe of 1711 in it's entirety.
They won't run far though with 3 core provs once CCs pop up
Marcus, you make some very good arguments and I would agree that if the game were just about who had the most influence on the European continent, then France would be the winner at this point. I would also agree that if you were to just look at the last 50-100 years, then I wouldn't put Spain in first place, but I'm not sure it would have been France before their war with Austria. At this rate though, France may be the winner 100 years from now. And yeah, the Ottoman's and Russia really messed up the war with France. But Germany should be used to less than adequate allies.
I also have to agree with Satan's comments. Both the Dutch and I would add the Spanish seem to be a bit too comfortable living under the blanket of France's protection and to pretty much go along with anything that France does. The Dutch are still vassals of France, right? I would expect them to gather support for an independence movement at some point.
A lot of this seems to point back at the failings of the English in this game. England could be both a great ally and competitor for the Dutch and could exert a lot more pressure on both Spain and France.
Of course this all comes from someone who has played 0 MP games.
I also have to agree with Satan's comments. Both the Dutch and I would add the Spanish seem to be a bit too comfortable living under the blanket of France's protection and to pretty much go along with anything that France does. The Dutch are still vassals of France, right? I would expect them to gather support for an independence movement at some point.
A lot of this seems to point back at the failings of the English in this game. England could be both a great ally and competitor for the Dutch and could exert a lot more pressure on both Spain and France.
Of course this all comes from someone who has played 0 MP games.
Well this is what a United States would look like given an English-Dutch union that releases the US and Spain advancing her sale of Florida. A United States with the Capital in Carolina. Should make for some interesting American history later. No doubt they rebelled because the enlighten Dutch as members of the union pressed for abolishing the trans-Atlantic slave trade
A curious problem arises because the US will have. French, Anglo-Saxon, Iberian, Creek, Cherokee, Delaware and Iroquois culture in their core. I suggest we give all provinces with native culture one common culture since a nation can only have 4 state cultures. Seems only fair as historically all US core provinces had state culture. Kind of funny imagining provinces with native culture rebelling – the Spanish conversions centuries ago still have an effect.
A curious problem arises because the US will have. French, Anglo-Saxon, Iberian, Creek, Cherokee, Delaware and Iroquois culture in their core. I suggest we give all provinces with native culture one common culture since a nation can only have 4 state cultures. Seems only fair as historically all US core provinces had state culture. Kind of funny imagining provinces with native culture rebelling – the Spanish conversions centuries ago still have an effect.
Originally posted by ulver
Well this is what a United States would look like given an English-Dutch union that releases the US and Spain advancing her sale of Florida. A United States with the Capital in Carolina. Should make for some interesting American history later. No doubt they rebelled because the enlighten Dutch as members of the union pressed for abolishing the trans-Atlantic slave trade
A curious problem arises because the US will have. French, Anglo-Saxon, Iberian, Creek, Cherokee, Delaware and Iroquois culture in their core. I suggest we give all provinces with native culture one common culture since a nation can only have 4 state cultures. Seems only fair as historically all US core provinces had state culture. Kind of funny imagining provinces with native culture rebelling – the Spanish conversions centuries ago still have an effect.
Countries can have more than 4 state cultures ...