Mechanized vs motorized

[comsubpac]

i would say this is more what i would call an armoured car today.

 

[Modo]

I call for three types of AC's: light(4x4), medium(6x6) and heavy(8x8), just like tanks or at least additional techs to represent the advancements in the vehicles.

What advancements? I'm curious, how much did they change during WWII?

 

[tommylotto]

Could I suggest the simple expedient of reducing the softness of AC more significantly with the armour tech for light armour? Currently it gets a -1 softness per rank, if that was imrpoved to -3 or even -5 it could make a much larger impact on softness of the brigade.

Similarly I would advocate a much higher starting softness. They are bulletproof and that should be a much greater reduction in SA values because the rifles don;t work against them and that is a lot of the SA value presumably.

Of course the definsiveness and toughness stats don't work very well at the moment so softness is the only damage redcing element and that is awkward because Acs should be much more vulnerable, esp. to AT weapons.

That is a good suggestion. Some AC's from 1940 had similar protection to some tanks from 1936, but '36 LArm will get you CA but '40 AC will not. I think AC has it's own armor tech, which being separate from the LArm armor tech can be abstracted to also include the wheeled suspension to deal with the weight of the added armor. So maybe in '36 give them a 60 softness and have it drop 10 on every advancement. So, by '40 they have 40 softness (still softer than LArm) but are capable of giving a CA bonus.

I would suggest doing the same with LArm, but that would open up an exploit. If LArm started with 40 or 50 softness and got harder with each armor tech, people would not research LArm armor and build 4xLArm and get a CA bonus. With AC brigades, we do not have to worry about this as they are a support brigade with zero width.

 

[Shootist]

Humvee.

Too big. Too heavy. Too ponderous. To replace the Jeep.
Too small. Too light. To replace the deuce-and-a-half.

1. Humvees replaced a useful and versatile vehicle with the over-priced result of a Low Bid which padded the pork of some Congresscritter.

2. One would have thought that the US Army would have learned the lessons of WWII and not have tried to make a Tank/APC out of a Truck. They didn't.

Stupid American Army.

 

[Hardradi]

What advancements? I'm curious, how much did they change during WWII?

The pictures below show the evolution of the "allied" armoured car throughout the war. Without going into specifics, it is obvious from the tonnage, wheels #'s, crew #'s, etc that there were many advancements. The Germans had a similar progression but did not get to the same sheer size as the Boarhound. The Sd.Kfz. 234/2 "Puma" may have been their biggest at 12t. A quick search also reveals that the Russians also had light, medium and heavy armoured cars with many varieties and enhancements.

US M3 Scout Car (4t)

Allied M8 Greyhound (8t)

Allied T-17 Deerhound (14t)

Allied T18 Boarhound (28t) (prod canceled, 30 made and never in combat)

 

[Modo]

So the 14 ton version was the biggest thing actually seriously used. And there were how many really different models? Of each type (4x4, 6x6, 8x8)? Think of the scope of the game. If doing such a specific tech tree just for ACs, we'd need to have a separate friggin' category for each major tank model, not just for their general size/usage.

 

[Kevinleungcp]

So the 14 ton version was the biggest thing actually seriously used. And there were how many really different models? Of each type (4x4, 6x6, 8x8)? Think of the scope of the game. If doing such a specific tech tree just for ACs, we'd need to have a separate friggin' category for each major tank model, not just for their general size/usage.

That might just be the path forward, to have country's specific models for each and every piece of equipment. That'd be awesome

 

[Hardradi]

So the 14 ton version was the biggest thing actually seriously used. And there were how many really different models? Of each type (4x4, 6x6, 8x8)? Think of the scope of the game. If doing such a specific tech tree just for ACs, we'd need to have a separate friggin' category for each major tank model, not just for their general size/usage.

If you are serious about not thinking there are that many different models, have a look at the SdKfz, I believe it is one of the most heavily modified vehicles of WW2.

I was thinking about the scope of the game, thats why I brought up two options. Obviously three categories of AC's (l/m/h) is a big step but additional techs is not especially when you can leverage of the light and medium tank techs. Its just an idea. I am sure some people would like to be able to put these bigger AC recon units into their Divisions rather than using the early war model currently represented in the game.

I can see a pretty signficant difference in relation to the following two armoured cars, both used in a recon role by the Germans:

Perhaps AC's should be taken out of the game altogether and replaced with a Recon unit.

 

[Modo]

That might just be the path forward, to have country's specific models for each and every piece of equipment. That'd be awesome

That would be lots of tedious MM. Thanks, but no, thanks.

If you are serious about not thinking there are that many different models, have a look at the SdKfz, I believe it is one of the most heavily modified vehicles of WW2.

Many different models of armored cars, or many different roles? Are you just maybe including the 100 or more halftrack models used for pretty much anything?

 

[Hardradi]

Having you firing questions back at me is becoming tiresome. I have outlined the facts around my idea. All I have from you is "think about the scope of the game", which I have done.

Many different models of armored cars, or many different roles?

I have provided the answer to the first part of this question. Perhaps you could answer the second part?

Are you just maybe including the 100 or more halftrack models used for pretty much anything?

We are not talking about halftracks.