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raider75 said:
But not as a country. In '52 we can use it rather as a serie of events related to pre-EU rather then as a country. Event separate Brussels an "EU-country" in 1952 would be unrealistic (however quite realistic in 2007).
Vergueiro:
I do apologize, I've been very busy last two weeks (work and exams coming :wacko: ), however I promise to do some work on events in the second half of the month.
A couple of issues I found straight away:
- North Corea has no state culture
- It is impossible to do ships since early ships are still wooden ones and we don't have clippers anymore
- stupid thing "luxury clothes" which are computers now, but they are still manufactured by using ordinary clothes
I think we should change it bach to luxury clothes and we can use "clippers" tag for computers. I think that we shouldn't change originall tags if it is not neccessary (it cause more harm then good sometimes).Is it possible to change brigades' icons?
MarcFloyd said:But not as a country. In '52 we can use it rather as a serie of events related to pre-EU rather then as a country. Event separate Brussels an "EU-country" in 1952 would be unrealistic (however quite realistic in 2007).
Vergueiro:
I do apologize, I've been very busy last two weeks (work and exams coming :wacko: ), however I promise to do some work on events in the second half of the month.
A couple of issues I found straight away:
- North Corea has no state culture
- It is impossible to do ships since early ships are still wooden ones and we don't have clippers anymore
- stupid thing "luxury clothes" which are computers now, but they are still manufactured by using ordinary clothes
Is it possible to change brigades' icons?
I must apologize, too, since I didn't posted an actual tag list (African Nations got lots of new tags). But major countries are still the same (except URSS, as I took VIP's revolt.txt file as basis; and there the URSS is U12, not U11).
North Korea: fixed. But some events to freeze the front at current borders are desperately needed. The war doesn't seem to get to an end.
Ships: By reworking the contries files it is possible to allow other ships types. And besides, I intend to change completely the naval structure, along with the tech-tree, which brings me to the next issue: industry. I've done some sketches so far – on paper. But I'm planing to start with a reduced number of industries, like Vicky also does. Computer industries shall play a vital role as mechanical parts do in Vicky, i.e. countries that posses a computer industry will be able to lead the last industrial revolution. Those who don't, will simply be draged along. But I must think a bit longer about this.
and just have the EU not in the game untill the mid 90's and introduce it via events
Some thoughts I had this morning.
1. Slavery - it is obsolete in modern world, however we can use it in political events in some countries, mostly dictatorship ones. Specific events would convert some pops into slaves or release them (political prisoners)
2. Vietnam War
I was thinking about it for a while - how to do it realisticly, so not let USA simply conquer North Vietnam straight away.
In real war USA never invaded NV as it feard that it would bring China into conflict. We need to do exactly the same - if USA start invasion we can bring China into war.
3. Political parties
There are too many political parties in modern world, i think we should show just main ones, however we could give people a choice by
creatining "anonymus" parties with rest od ideologies not used by main ones.
In case of the UK:
-we would have three "real parties" - LibDem, Tories and Labours, which would be liberal, conservative and socialist.
-rest of politic spectrum should be covered by parties simply called "Fascist Party", "Communist Party", "Reactionary Party" etc. We can use this model in all countries, it will simplyfy our work.
1. Slavery - it is obsolete in modern world, however we can use it in political events in some countries, mostly dictatorship ones. Specific events would convert some pops into slaves or release them (political prisoners)
2. Vietnam War
I was thinking about it for a while - how to do it realisticly, so not let USA simply conquer North Vietnam straight away.
In real war USA never invaded NV as it feard that it would bring China into conflict. We need to do exactly the same - if USA start invasion we can bring China into war.
3. Political parties
There are too many political parties in modern world, i think we should show just main ones, however we could give people a choice by
creatining "anonymus" parties with rest od ideologies not used by main ones.
In case of the UK:
-we would have three "real parties" - LibDem, Tories and Labours, which would be liberal, conservative and socialist.
-rest of politic spectrum should be covered by parties simply called "Fascist Party", "Communist Party", "Reactionary Party" etc. We can use this model in all countries, it will simplyfy our work.
Wohoo this is back! Downloaded it 2-3 years ago. Gave me an inspiration to create modern day scenario as in all countries in the map. I managed to do it all except few Central Asian nations, Oceania and Caribbean. Of course Windows went crazy and I had to reinstall without opportunity to copy the files. It was going to be just 1836 scenario with today's countries. Never going through that modding &%#&%¤# again.
If there is EU in the game as in state, maybe put the province/capital in Strasbourg? Since it's the another "capital" of EU and less important province in game. It would look weird for Belgium not having Brussels as its capital.
When there comes event(?) where EU annexes Belgium, fire another where it asks if you want to move the capital, like in Italian unification events.
Downloaded it 2-3 years ago. Gave me an inspiration to create modern day scenario as in all countries in the map. I managed to do it all except few Central Asian nations, Oceania and Caribbean. Of course Windows went crazy and I had to reinstall without opportunity to copy the files. It was going to be just 1836 scenario with today's countries. Never going through that modding &%#&%¤# again.If there is EU in the game as in state, maybe put the province/capital in Strasbourg? Since it's the another "capital" of EU and less important province in game. It would look weird for Belgium not having Brussels as its capital.
When there comes event(?) where EU annexes Belgium, fire another where it asks if you want to move the capital, like in Italian unification events.
lol?MarcFloyd said:
Well, doesn't exist in modern world. I mean large scale slavery, not about incidents of course.eräjorma said:
Tell me you are kidding.MarcFloyd said:
Also to clarify, is your modern world synonym to western countries or today's world?
Well... slavery is not that obsolete as we wished. Although there is officially no state that enforces property over other human beings, there are plenty that simply close the eyes for that, like some African countries, since there slavery has too deep social roots to be undone with a bunch of laws. Not to mention those countries that enforce any kind of compulsory work – like China – or those that socially shows some kind of acceptance to compulsory work – like debts slavery deep in the Brazilian hinterland. ...and by mentioning Brazil, what about the underpaid populations, who actally have such a low income, that it doesn't revert any taxation for the state? People that aren't simply poor, but miserable. And that's surely not an isolated case and without effects on the state budget.
I don't want to further push the issue, but I think we can keep slavery in this mod, but not under the name "slavery", rather as an underpaid pop, which actually doesn't exist for taxing purposes – what fits perfectly in the game's machine. But, as I already said, pop rework will follow later on.
Well, first issue done. Second issue:
Vietnam War is easy to solve: just a new AI for USA during the conflict. And if the human player dares to invade North Vietnam, he must then handle with Chinese landings in California... Perhaps even setting the M.A.D. loose and ending with a nuclear aftermath
About parties, this is not a urgent issue. As long there are parties assigned to each country, the scenario won't crash. For now, I'm concearned that the scenario runs smoothly, that all countries (specially new ones) have proper names and flags – and a party file, so they won't cause a crash either.
Concearning the "civilized" status, I've some thoughts... the primitive status would be reserved to those countries that nowadays suffer from "chronical" underdevelopment, e.g. most African counties, that cannot develop due political instability and, in the other hand, due the feeble economy, the political structure won't stabilize long enough. But I'm still thinking about new names for this classification.
And regarding the sketches, I'm afraid you won't understand it, since it's written in two diffrent languages... and besides, over the same sheet are my control lists for every country in the revolt.txt file, so that by now, not even I'm in the postition to fully distinguish what belongs to the control list and what belongs to the techtree sketches. I hope only, no new idea gets lost in that godforsaken mess. :wacko:
And for last, EU has a valid tag (ION). Starting EU in Strassburg is quite a good idea, but to the Union be born, most countries must aprove its constitution, not only Germany and France. But how to simulate that by events chain is still unkown to me. This isn't that important now... I'd rather have a good game balancing and accurate simulation for the 50's and 60's, then just for the 90's and 2000's. Believe me, it's quite boring to play deep into the 70's without any good event
I don't want to further push the issue, but I think we can keep slavery in this mod, but not under the name "slavery", rather as an underpaid pop, which actually doesn't exist for taxing purposes – what fits perfectly in the game's machine. But, as I already said, pop rework will follow later on.
Well, first issue done. Second issue:
Vietnam War is easy to solve: just a new AI for USA during the conflict. And if the human player dares to invade North Vietnam, he must then handle with Chinese landings in California...
Perhaps even setting the M.A.D. loose and ending with a nuclear aftermath About parties, this is not a urgent issue. As long there are parties assigned to each country, the scenario won't crash. For now, I'm concearned that the scenario runs smoothly, that all countries (specially new ones) have proper names and flags – and a party file, so they won't cause a crash either.
Concearning the "civilized" status, I've some thoughts... the primitive status would be reserved to those countries that nowadays suffer from "chronical" underdevelopment, e.g. most African counties, that cannot develop due political instability and, in the other hand, due the feeble economy, the political structure won't stabilize long enough. But I'm still thinking about new names for this classification.
And regarding the sketches, I'm afraid you won't understand it, since it's written in two diffrent languages... and besides, over the same sheet are my control lists for every country in the revolt.txt file, so that by now, not even I'm in the postition to fully distinguish what belongs to the control list and what belongs to the techtree sketches. I hope only, no new idea gets lost in that godforsaken mess. :wacko:
And for last, EU has a valid tag (ION). Starting EU in Strassburg is quite a good idea, but to the Union be born, most countries must aprove its constitution, not only Germany and France. But how to simulate that by events chain is still unkown to me. This isn't that important now... I'd rather have a good game balancing and accurate simulation for the 50's and 60's, then just for the 90's and 2000's. Believe me, it's quite boring to play deep into the 70's without any good event
Ive been very interested in MDS's of all paradox games (eu2, eu3, vic, vicr) etc, and i just want to say, though i have no skills in coding etc, i can research and throw in ideas if anyone is interested - im very much interested in this project.
The vietnam era i could possibly help alot as i have a great interest in it, also with other communist states.
hope i can be of SOME help, i want one of these projects to be FINISHED for once is there any files or 'beta' to download - havent seen any mds betas for a long time.
The vietnam era i could possibly help alot as i have a great interest in it, also with other communist states.
hope i can be of SOME help, i want one of these projects to be FINISHED for once
is there any files or 'beta' to download - havent seen any mds betas for a long time.
'well yeah, but there is such a diversity of units in today's world. How do you all make it work? Just have Armor, mechanized infantry and regular infantry? What about air combat?'
Have 'technological breakthroughs' of weapon types which have had great effect in modern times.
For infantry -
SOPMOD style upgrades of weapons
Advanced personal anti tank weapons (LAW-80,SMAW)
Guided missile technology
HEAT anti tank ammo
Modern body armor/helmets (kevlar etc)
Armor
Depleted uranium shells (could need large uranium to get event, uranium stockpile representing undeployed nuclear weapons?)
DU armor
reactive armor, very modern (defence against HEAT rounds)
advanced tank shells (ww2 = AP generally, modern uses such as APFSDS rounds along with STAFF/He etc)
Air
Air could work in effect the same as tanks worked for vic ww1, high shock value low fire, representing interdiction/close support missions
thats my 2 cents for now, lemme know what you all think.
Have 'technological breakthroughs' of weapon types which have had great effect in modern times.
For infantry -
SOPMOD style upgrades of weapons
Advanced personal anti tank weapons (LAW-80,SMAW)
Guided missile technology
HEAT anti tank ammo
Modern body armor/helmets (kevlar etc)
Armor
Depleted uranium shells (could need large uranium to get event, uranium stockpile representing undeployed nuclear weapons?)
DU armor
reactive armor, very modern (defence against HEAT rounds)
advanced tank shells (ww2 = AP generally, modern uses such as APFSDS rounds along with STAFF/He etc)
Air
Air could work in effect the same as tanks worked for vic ww1, high shock value low fire, representing interdiction/close support missions
thats my 2 cents for now, lemme know what you all think.
'2. Vietnam War
I was thinking about it for a while - how to do it realisticly, so not let USA simply conquer North Vietnam straight away.
In real war USA never invaded NV as it feard that it would bring China into conflict. We need to do exactly the same - if USA start invasion we can bring China into war.'
Dont have usa directly at war, let the player make that choice is they choose to be at war - instead have events for deployment to vietnam - removing a unit from american army and giving it to south vietnam - albeit temporarily.
that way it works for ai as well as human usa or vietnam.
the complex part would be determining how the war is proceding - i suggest some sort of province based system, where everytime a province is taken from the south, regardless of whether they keep it, and event in america happens something like 'opposition to vietnam war'
also if possible, the destruction of a US unit should have VERY heavy effects, although they will be stronger than SVN or NVA units the ai will still probably loose a few -- a problem here.
I was thinking about it for a while - how to do it realisticly, so not let USA simply conquer North Vietnam straight away.
In real war USA never invaded NV as it feard that it would bring China into conflict. We need to do exactly the same - if USA start invasion we can bring China into war.'
Dont have usa directly at war, let the player make that choice is they choose to be at war - instead have events for deployment to vietnam - removing a unit from american army and giving it to south vietnam - albeit temporarily.
that way it works for ai as well as human usa or vietnam.
the complex part would be determining how the war is proceding - i suggest some sort of province based system, where everytime a province is taken from the south, regardless of whether they keep it, and event in america happens something like 'opposition to vietnam war'
also if possible, the destruction of a US unit should have VERY heavy effects, although they will be stronger than SVN or NVA units the ai will still probably loose a few -- a problem here.
Sen. Vergueiro said:EU:
I think it's too soon to take a real action about EU. For now I would keep events for the 50's (Baby-boom, German economical mircale etc.).
For the army, my sketches look like this:
inf. => foot/light infantry
drag. => mot. infantry
cav. => tanks
mil. => some special thoughts...
BB 1 => CA 1
BB 2 => CL 1
BB 3 => CL 2
BC 1 => Fr1
BC 2 => Fr 2
CL 1 => CV 1
CL 2 => CV 2
CA 1 => CV 3
CA 2 => CV 4
CV 1 => Dest 1
CV 2 => Dest 2
CV 3 => Dest 3
DD => BB
MO => CA 2
IC => SSN 3
MW => BC
FR => SSN 1
CR => SSN 2
C Trans => SS 2
SS => SS 1
S Trans => Trans
(I had to reorginize naval divisions this way, because naval units sprites are – also – hardcoded. BB 1 to BC 2 and CV 1 to CV 3 share the same sprite. CL 1 to CA 2 also another sprite.)
Brigades:
HQ => idem
Gua => special forces
Eng => idem
Reg. => AA
Art => idem
Arm => Anti-tanks
figthers => idem
bombers => idem
cui => Heavy tanks
hus => APC
tor => idem
dest => attack boats
cor => free
ML => idem
MS => idem
I already put aside the graphics for these. There're plenty of units images and sprites, which I took from the new HoI DD spritepack (should I ask the developers of these graphic/sprite pack to use it in ths mod?). It's just a matter of time, the revolt file is not the best work, but it needs to be done after all. But once I'm finish (hopefully today), I'll focus again on graphic work.
To-do list:
That's simple: country files are almost done (when parties were reworked we should have a second look on theses files). Flags (at least one for each country) are done.
What is not done: OOB, economy/industrial rework, party files, unit, ai (there is something done, but is simple too little to keep the game historical), provinces, pops, military leaders and the revolt.txt (not for long now).
Just like to say, i agree in principle with these ideas - seem reasonable and workable.
Holy Crap ... someone is continuing our work on this mod O_O Great!
I'm glad to see that not only are my graphics still in use, but some upgrades are now in place too Looking good!
If you need any help on it, I'd be more than willing to work on it again ... I'd have to see how much time I could devote for certain, but I'd love to work on this mod again.
I'm glad to see that not only are my graphics still in use, but some upgrades are now in place too
Looking good!If you need any help on it, I'd be more than willing to work on it again ... I'd have to see how much time I could devote for certain, but I'd love to work on this mod again.
Here is the post by MarcFloyd earlier on in this thread which has the MDS files. I'm not too sure of how up-to-date these are, but I believe they are not for Revolutions. Also, I think this mod has now changed developers, etc... so I doubt those files are good still?
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Right, just some ideas to throw out there for this mod:
Vietnam War:
1) Have a Vietcong tag which is at war with South Vietnam and the USA (South Vietnam and USA have full alliance with USA having access granted).
2) Defensive alliance between North Vietnam and China.
3) North Vietnam having events to "Support the Vietcong" leading to the Vietcong to get more forces in South Vietnam.
4) The USA and South Vietnam have events for counter incursions into North Vietnam in order to prevent the Vietcong getting supplied.
5) Let the USA go to war with Vietcong outright, but a high cost to be paid if war is declared outright on North Vietnam (unpopular war at home + war with China?)
6) If the Vietcong are defeated and annexed then have North Vietnam allow to fund the remaining rebels, and so trigger Vietcong being recreated again. This would go on until such a time (say allow this up to 5 times?), or until a choice is made by whereby North Vietnam accepts defeat.
Clio Map Project's Inclusion:
I'd also suggest using this map. However, I think it would be best for everyone to get at least some of the work done beforehand, so that when Clio is released (and if integrated into this mod) then there is as little work to be done as possible - change over some starting provinces, provinces in events, AI files, etc... ??
MDS Organisation:
For the love of God will someone create a list of members and contributors for this mod! Who are the leader(s) now? Who are the members/contributors?
Will the leader(s) compile who is in the development team by offering to get people to PM them, and then draft a list of members and their respective areas they wish to contribute in for this mod?
Once members are known, give them a basic copy of the MDS as it is (without events scripted?) as a version that doesn't crash. MarcFloyd noticed that the game kept crashing when you click a province as certain nations, this is down to having no correct political party in power - you need a party that works and is in power in order to play the country, or else it crashes.
United Nations:
Don't have it! It is not a nation, but more of a tool for other nations. Perhaps have events in which nations can press for something to be taken to the UN, and member countries of it vote to pass a resolution or not.
European Union:
Again, no need for it. It is not an entity or alliance or anything like that. Perhaps just have it improve trade efficiency for member countries, and improve relations? It isn't a political power. The UK had it's own northern European economic 'bloc'; would this seriously be included as well? Neither should be in, in my opinion.
These are my suggestions, and I hope that many of them can be worked into the mod. Also, I really hope that this mod can get up and on the go again - it's about time!
EDIT: Just to be clear here, I am not implying I wish to be a member of this mod. Right now I'm too busy with other things, and was just posting suggestions here which I hoped might help to get this MDS back up and running at a good pace. It seems far too delayed, and I was just hoping that I might be able to have a little input to encourage the development to pick-up a little. Obviously it is understandable that this isn't always going to be easy, but the mod would be brilliant if it could get to a state where a team of developers could have their input on a basic version.
Vietnam War:
1) Have a Vietcong tag which is at war with South Vietnam and the USA (South Vietnam and USA have full alliance with USA having access granted).
2) Defensive alliance between North Vietnam and China.
3) North Vietnam having events to "Support the Vietcong" leading to the Vietcong to get more forces in South Vietnam.
4) The USA and South Vietnam have events for counter incursions into North Vietnam in order to prevent the Vietcong getting supplied.
5) Let the USA go to war with Vietcong outright, but a high cost to be paid if war is declared outright on North Vietnam (unpopular war at home + war with China?)
6) If the Vietcong are defeated and annexed then have North Vietnam allow to fund the remaining rebels, and so trigger Vietcong being recreated again. This would go on until such a time (say allow this up to 5 times?), or until a choice is made by whereby North Vietnam accepts defeat.
Clio Map Project's Inclusion:
I'd also suggest using this map. However, I think it would be best for everyone to get at least some of the work done beforehand, so that when Clio is released (and if integrated into this mod) then there is as little work to be done as possible - change over some starting provinces, provinces in events, AI files, etc... ??
MDS Organisation:
For the love of God will someone create a list of members and contributors for this mod! Who are the leader(s) now? Who are the members/contributors?
Will the leader(s) compile who is in the development team by offering to get people to PM them, and then draft a list of members and their respective areas they wish to contribute in for this mod?
Once members are known, give them a basic copy of the MDS as it is (without events scripted?) as a version that doesn't crash. MarcFloyd noticed that the game kept crashing when you click a province as certain nations, this is down to having no correct political party in power - you need a party that works and is in power in order to play the country, or else it crashes.
United Nations:
Don't have it! It is not a nation, but more of a tool for other nations. Perhaps have events in which nations can press for something to be taken to the UN, and member countries of it vote to pass a resolution or not.
European Union:
Again, no need for it. It is not an entity or alliance or anything like that. Perhaps just have it improve trade efficiency for member countries, and improve relations? It isn't a political power. The UK had it's own northern European economic 'bloc'; would this seriously be included as well? Neither should be in, in my opinion.
These are my suggestions, and I hope that many of them can be worked into the mod. Also, I really hope that this mod can get up and on the go again - it's about time!
EDIT: Just to be clear here, I am not implying I wish to be a member of this mod. Right now I'm too busy with other things, and was just posting suggestions here which I hoped might help to get this MDS back up and running at a good pace. It seems far too delayed, and I was just hoping that I might be able to have a little input to encourage the development to pick-up a little. Obviously it is understandable that this isn't always going to be easy, but the mod would be brilliant if it could get to a state where a team of developers could have their input on a basic version.
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I would disagree, I think that the better idea would be to choose the greater of the minor parties for that idealogy so for example the British National Party would be the UK's fascist party.
Ahh yeah. I must've missed that point. But yeah I definitely agree with you jamhaw.