• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Awesome indeed! :D
One problem, though: There's two events with 115043 as their ID in the RussiansInMongolia file (I changed one of them to 115048 provisionally).
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Awesome indeed! :D
One problem, though: There's two events with 115043 as their ID in the RussiansInMongolia file (I changed one of them to 115048 provisionally).

Thank you for helping!

Along the change of map, I modified and added some events temporarily.
Although they are still remaining low completeness.

This project needs much of someone's support to be accomplished.
If you have any suggestions or requests, please feel free to post here;)
 
As I don't know much about Asia I can't really be of use there, but if you haven't read it yet you may get some ideas from this thread:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/expanded-vanilla-map-project.749039/

I read the thread to the end now.
Ober, the OP of the thread said that Mongolia made by me has too much provinces...

Through many times of testing AI and events, I confirmed that Russia conquers Mongolia smoothly and even Manchus/Qing China may annex Mongols.
The Mongolia isn't be conquered by Ming China nor don't going to conquer China.
Every provinces in Siberia can become AI Russia's.

If some troubles on this map can be mentioned IMO, wars on Russia and Buryat vs Manchu and Mongol, makes the game slow by clashing godzillions of armies from both alliances:oops:
 
6kk1Uds.jpg


This is a plan for the next step of modification.
 
http://i.imgur.com/Dh3buTn.jpg

Making map is progressing slowly.
Central asia became more likely.

When you make changes and additions to the map could you upload the updated files? In case of accidents they would then still be available to those interested.
Currently the first post shows "last change from 04.09.2011" for the zip file attached there.
 
Ver. 0.96 uploaded

http://hayasoft.com/hiko/paradox/other/source/up4865.zip

This is the second playable one.

Provinces at China, Tibet and Central Asia are reconstructed.
There are some provinces around Himalaya added.

Uzbek Horde and Kazakhs act more historicaly by the events of territorial and cultural changes.
Mughal and Safavid are reinforced to conquer larger areas.
Qing China got more core provinces on its historical extent.

When you make changes and additions to the map could you upload the updated files? In case of accidents they would then still be available to those interested.
OK I understand.
From next time, everytimes when I update an area of map I'll upload the files temporalily to get someone's feedback.

Currently the first post shows "last change from 04.09.2011" for the zip file attached there.
What does that mean?
To edit the first post by latest information about mod?
 
Last edited:
I have to say i really like your mod. And i wanted to ask, if i can use your map for a mod im going to make.
Of course,
you're welcome to the use of this.

However some points to fix are left there yet.

Area about Japan and Korea needs provincial addition (to as many as of Asia Chapters).
Japanese proper (islands of Honshu, Shikoku and Kyushu) going to split into 14 provinces, and Korean peninsula might have 8 provinces.
Besides them, Ryukyu and Kurile Islands going to be added.

Persia and Iraq can have more historical accuration to change the names and boarders of provinces (number of them won't change).

So if you wanted to make those areas full-fledged,
look forward to the future updates of map please;)
 
http://i.imgur.com/6KqaXZZ.jpg

This is a modificational plan for the rest of Iran, Iraq and eastern part of Turkey.
The yellow coloured borders mean the brand-new.

I noticed about Safavid which has some distortion on the provinces.
Province named Azerbaijan isn't nowaday the state of Azerbaijan, but is used as Iranian Azerbaijan with it's administrative centre Tabriz.
Province named Tabriz is used as an other Iranian city named Qazvin.
The map of AGCEEP don't have any true Daghestan.
So I felt needness of adding some provinces on the area.

Because of there are a few Kurdish area (AGCEEP has only 1), Ak Koyunlu can be beaten off easily by Qara Koyunlu and Mamluks.
Overgrown Ottoman Empire interfere Russian conquest on the khanates.
The early Safavid under Shah Ismail is still powerless.
I guess that those problems can be solved by the provincial addition.
 
Most mods on these fora have a link to the latest version in the first post (makes it much easier to find espacially in the case of very popular mods like Kaiserreich with a couple of new posts in the thread every day).;) That was presumably what ConjurerDragon was driving at in his grumpy German manner.:) Zucht und Ordnung - am deutschen Wesen muss die Welt genesen.:p

All in all nice changes to the map. Qing expansion of China was lacking for a long time, too, it will be interesting to play China again with the new changes.:)

By the way are you Japanese, McSionnaigh? From what I remember of an AGCEEP Japan campaign of mine a few years ago a lot of the event descriptions were sadly on the more opaque and hard to understand end of the spectrum. What most stuck in my mind was the event during the Onin War, when one faction was beleaguring the other faction in the palace area of Kyoto. In order to break the stalemate one of the two factions decided to start a fire that in the end consumed most of Kyoto. Which faction was the one that pulled the trigger so to speak? From what I remember, the event description pointed in one direction, the event effects (+1 badboy) in the other. I'm sure it's a common and well known school book story in Japan, but in Germany it's not that easy to find information on that topic if you don't have access to a university library or the equivalent.:(
 
...
By the way are you Japanese, McSionnaigh? From what I remember of an AGCEEP Japan campaign of mine a few years ago a lot of the event descriptions were sadly on the more opaque and hard to understand end of the spectrum. What most stuck in my mind was the event during the Onin War, when one faction was beleaguring the other faction in the palace area of Kyoto. In order to break the stalemate one of the two factions decided to start a fire that in the end consumed most of Kyoto. Which faction was the one that pulled the trigger so to speak? From what I remember, the event description pointed in one direction, the event effects (+1 badboy) in the other. I'm sure it's a common and well known school book story in Japan, but in Germany it's not that easy to find information on that topic if you don't have access to a university library or the equivalent.:(

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōnin-Krieg
 
Most mods on these fora have a link to the latest version in the first post (makes it much easier to find espacially in the case of very popular mods like Kaiserreich with a couple of new posts in the thread every day).;) That was presumably what ConjurerDragon was driving at in his grumpy German manner.:) Zucht und Ordnung - am deutschen Wesen muss die Welt genesen.:p

hmm... I understand;)
I'll try to change the first post.

By the way are you Japanese, McSionnaigh? From what I remember of an AGCEEP Japan campaign of mine a few years ago a lot of the event descriptions were sadly on the more opaque and hard to understand end of the spectrum. What most stuck in my mind was the event during the Onin War, when one faction was beleaguring the other faction in the palace area of Kyoto. In order to break the stalemate one of the two factions decided to start a fire that in the end consumed most of Kyoto. Which faction was the one that pulled the trigger so to speak? From what I remember, the event description pointed in one direction, the event effects (+1 badboy) in the other. I'm sure it's a common and well known school book story in Japan, but in Germany it's not that easy to find information on that topic if you don't have access to a university library or the equivalent.:(

I'm Japanese indeed, but didn't know the detail of Onin War. Although searching some informations on the web written in Japanese, I found the answer for your question.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/上京の戦い
This Japanese Wikipedia article describes the battle in Kyoto.
It says, some skirmishes between both camps had been occured since before the event.
In May 1467, Hosokawa's faction (Tôgun 東軍) had attacked Daimyos of Yamana side (Seigun 西軍) on a large scale. And then, both factions gathered troops in Kyoto to The disturbances.
 
First, thanks for your great efforts, McSionnaigh, you're really doing a great job.:)

The feeling I got from playing Japan back then (2012 or earlier still under 1.2) was that only few people play that nation which is a little sad really considering that the long drawn out decline of the Ashikaga shugunate makes playing Japan a different expierience from the other nations in FtG: sure other nations and dynasties had their moments of weakness and dynastical decline, too, like the English under Henry VI. and the wars of the roses or the civil war, the French frondes and wars of religion or the Russans and the Time of Troubles, but the Ashikaga decline and run of poor rulers (Ashikaga Yoshihide even has the "honour" of being the only(?) or one of the very few 1-1-1 monarchs) and the rebelliousness of the country (every couple of years another ikki) and the infighting of the other noble houses has to be experienced to be believed.:)

If you ever feel like overhauling Japan, McSionnaigh, and if you change the map you have to change the province references anyway, here are a few things that should be fixed:
-Event 6936 "Infighting in the Hatakeyama family": action a and b sleep the events 6958 "Ginkakuji construction starts" and 6959 "Sen no Rikyu perfects Tea Ceremony". Given that the Ginkaku-ji was indeed build and the Tea Ceremony perfected it stands to reason that action c should be action a (the most and in the case of historical event outcomes only chosen action).
-Event 242004 "The Week Long Play": the description talks of "(...) The occasion was of such extravagance that it lasted for an entire week, with several other players done on alternate days.":eek: I rather hope it was "several other plays done on alternate days".
-The events I was talking about in the earlier post events 242025 and 242013 "Hosokawa retakes the Sambou-In" with the description "Although Hosokawa had recieved reinforcments from the Akamatsu family, his condition continued to decline as his outer defenses were taken until all remained was the crowded space containing the Shokokuji, the Bakafu buildings and his own headquarters. His attempts at counterattacks had been unsuccessful as well. Finally,on November 1st, Yamana bribed a monk at the Sambou-In to burn it to the ground. This led to widespred fighting and Hosokawa retaking much of the area he'd lost since late September, although many of the buildings were destroyed and the dead littered the streets." As the description says and ConjurerDragon's wikipedia link confirms (they really expanded that article in the last three years, I didn't expect that:oops:) the Yamana faction ordered the arson. Therefore events 242025 and 242013 should either have their flags chanded i.e. event 242025 trigger = { flag = [oninwar_hosokawa] } and event 242013 trigger = { flag = [oninwar_yamana] } or their actions changed. As it is now the Hosokawa faction orders the arson.:confused:

@ConjurerDragon: nice to see you didn't take my flippent remark too seriously.:) Back in 2012 I was thinking about doing a Japan AGCEEP AAR (although in the end I never found the time) and read up on the Ashikaga dynasty and other historical events or places in the German and English wikipedia and back then it wasn't as detailed apparently and they presented some of the very obvious embellishments as actual fact like the one Ashikaga that had his imperial dreams of restoring the greatness of his dynasty all coming crashing down upon him when he was attacked and killed in his castle by a rival faction breaking all his swords in his last fight. I mean, come on, just how brittle can these swords be?!:rolleyes: But of course, it's a poetic picture of his strength and allies failing him in the end.
 
Update (It has only map files. Events and scenarios are not included):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/go0kpp03gd7ge6v/new_map_2015-09-02.zip

screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/Z0FPLWZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PB66DjO.jpg

If you ever feel like overhauling Japan, McSionnaigh, and if you change the map you have to change the province references anyway, here are a few things that should be fixed:
Well, there are many defects on the events of Japan to fix certainly. There may be some points need to change other than mentioned above.
Your request for events, I'll try to achieve them after modifying on the map of Japan at the next update.
 
I don't want to push you, but I thought giving you a list of things to fix is easier for you than just knowing that "something's wrong here". Those were the things I remembered being off that are quite easily fixable. From programming experience I can say that if you know what to fix and how, it is so much more easily and quickly done than if you just hunt vague bugs. There may be more things off with the Japanese events, my memory is understandably a bit hazy years later. I just thought it would be easier for someone who can speak the language and has therefore an easier access to sources to improve the Japanese events. I did not want to miss the opportunity, I guess you can say.:)

But in my opinion the most important thing of all is that improving the game is something that is fun to do for you, something that feels rewarding and not a drudgery. If it's fun it's sustainable, if it feels like something you'd rather not do anymore, chances are you'll quit at some point. The sad thing is, of course, that that thing has happened before and is the reason the game and AGCEEP are not quite what they could have been had things gone differently. In Frensh doing something for the glory basically means doing something that does not pay or make you famous or anything but doing it rather, because you feel it's the right thing to do and at best nets you a little recognition and appreciation from those who care. Yodamaster loved AGCEEP and initiated For the Glory as a basis to develop the ultimate version of AGCEEP. Sadly he made some promises that he could not keep like releasing a new map for AGCEEP soon after the release of the game. Some very vocal fans felt the game was not enough of an improvement over EU2 and were was the new map anyway. That very counterproductive attitude only demotivated the guy doing the map further and of course he never could quite get himself to finish it. Behind the scenes Paradox allegedly put the blame for disappointing sales and disappointed fans on yodamaster. At one point yodamaster just went AWOL and never returned to the forums again or answered to any of the emails from codevelopers of the game or the mod. There are two interpretations for his behaviour: some fans felt he was just ripping us off, but I think the truth is more tragic than that: he really loved the game and the mod and things turning out so bitter, sour and sad was just too much for him to bear at some point, so he just quit. And like all vicious circles: yodamaster's departure did not improve things it only demotivated those that were left even more and the AGCEEP map was not and most likely will never be finished. And many of the game features that were made with AGCEEP in mind never made it into the mod.

We cannot undo the past but we can and should learn from it and as always one of the lessons is to detect vicious circles and either avoid them or break free from them.
 
Because yodamaster is also one of mankind, he might not be free everyday and might got bored with the game...:(
FtG's launch without map improvement may have consumed user's enthusiasm for agceep away severely.
I guess to make the pieces from scratch and put them on, this is the only way to re-activate agceep.

When I had test playing at hands-free, I noticed that there are many cascades of events inplicately at agceep.
Those cascades are well-made at the detail indeed, but very terrible on the perspective (fallen in Gestaltzerfall).
Each events invoke on selfish manner and there absent of lateral (synchronic) links of them.
As a result, there are countries with wrong acquisation and loss on those territories (e.g. territorial development of Mughal, Safavid, Ottoman, Uzbeks and Russia).

Apart from map, we can accomplish agceep with supervising effects and triggers of the events.
Let's succeed wish of developers joyfully!
 
It's very interesting how age, free time and hobbies interact. A lot of the people in these fora discover the game(s) when they are young and have a lot of free time. Some mod, some write AARs, some just play the game (let's stay with EU2 just for the argument, but it's also true with with other titles like Victoria, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron). As they grow older and enter university, start a family and/or get a job, they either move on or just don't find the time for modding or playing the game anymore. MOD33 for Darkest Hour is a good example, where the lead developer is a young father and quite understandably does not have the time any more to work on the very complex and convoluted mod of his. But there are also cases where the persons in question are older (in their 40s or 50s) like yodamaster or navapaddy (who mods DH). They may also get bored or have other real life issues, but for them life usually goes its steady course and they usually do not do not go through quite as many changes as a younger person. Therefore I think, if it was just boredom or lack of free time, yodamaster would have told us so like Kasperus did or responded to the many attempts of his co-devolepers of the game or the mod. I really hope yodamaster is doing well in real life, but I think that sadly FtG and AGCEEP are sore subjects for him now that he just does not want to talk about.:(

In retrospect it would have been better for the game to have been published a little later but to have included a new map. After the Europa Engine was made available to fan developers For the Glory was the first game to be released for the christmas sale 2009 IIRC. The old EU2 fans would have also bought the game in spring or summer of 2010 and a new map could definately have helped to appeal to new fans. Just think of Darkest Hour with its new map being favoured over Arsenal of Democracy with its old HoI 2 map. Sadly a fan improved Victoria never came to pass and in my humble opinion both HoI 2 reworks should have pooled together. Whenever I play Darkest Hour I miss the better economic and supply system and the research will be finished at date X feature of Arsenal of Democracy. Whenever I play AoD I miss the improvements os Darkest Hour like being faster, the easier leader selection, the map, etc.:rolleyes: For the Glory is in my opinion a better game and a better basis to build mods upon than DH or AoD which have an economic system that kind of works during war time (getting the raw material supplies to the factories was a major effort during WW2 and the economies were geared towards the war effort) but is not really all that great during peace time. But WW2 is more popular than the Age of Discovery and the Age of Enlightenment, so I don't think it's a surprise that remakes of a more popular game (HoI2) are more popular than a remake of EU2.

Back then the plan was basically to release the new map and to then adopt AGCEEP to the new map and basically overhaul the AI and events on the new map. But that version 2.0 of the mod never came to pass.

To be honest I did not know the term Gestaltzerfall, but you're right in that some contributors for the mod definitely were not aware of the bigger picture at all times. I do not know if the same figure of speech exists in Japanese, but in German and English you often talk about not seeing the wood (forest) for the trees. You don't see the bigger picture, only the component parts.
Quite often it was person X doing nation Y or event chain Z and later another person coming and changing or improving something and you end up with a lot of inconsistencies. E.g. if Burgundy gains the crown of Lotharingia it loses French as a national culture but receives German instead. If Burgundy then goes on to form France, France is stuck with not having French as the national culture but German.:eek: There are actually a few of these cases of gaining or losing accepted cultures through the backdoor, e.g. Teutonic Order->Brandenburg->Prussia retains the Baltic culture next to German while Brandenburg->Prussia only has German, Styria->Austria->Germany keeps Slavonic while in all other cases you're meant to be left with only German as Germany.:confused:
Then you have patriotic wish fullfillment fantasy events like the union of England and France, when you manage to defeat France as England during the Hundred Years War. Once you do so and survive the Wars of the Roses and the little and easily crushed side-action in France the events for an English victory in the HYW just run out and it's smooth (and incredibly boring) sailing till the end of the game. With the right sliders there won't even be an American insurrection and independance.o_O The Han Chinese never really accepted the Manchu/Qing Dynasty and I don't think the English Monarchs or various heads of state like Oliver Cromwell would have just been accepted by the French in all cases either. Even the French Monarchs faced various frondes and France was torn apart by wars over religion. Henry Quatre and all that. The whole sequence just is unconvincing. A personal union under Henry VI okay, but then the French should really choose their own monarch and go their seperate ways.:)

Very early on the basic mod was done by two people or so in a rather short time. They therefore had a good insight into the details as well as an outlook on the overall picture. Then a lot of people contributed and like you said did some amazing work on the detail level that at times can really suck you in and is a big part of the appeal of the mod. At one point the AGCEEP High Council was installed, cleaned up the event files (the event files of AGCEEP are much easier to read than those of other mods that do not have any meanigful way in which the events in a file are ordered) and imposed a certain minum standard on the events added, but did not really eleminate the inconsistant or dubious elements of what was there all too often. And who can blame them. Noone can know and do everything, some things were constrained by the EU2 engine that are not constrained by the FtG engine and it was always "we'll take a good look at things on the new map".

Another issue is that AGCEEP was never really adopted to version 1.3 of FtG. Rebels are much more powerful and colonies (under 1000) are more frequently wiped out by native uprisings.
I therefore propose two things:
-At least in the case of nations that are not big colonisers like Sweden, all provinces should have at least 1000 inhabitants so that colonial uprisings do not just make the provinces revert to empty land that then gets settled by colonisers like Portugal.
-We need to take a good look at event chains that involve rebels or revolt_risk in order to determine if they still work as intended. Case in point the whole Pacification of An Nam sequence that allows China to gain territory in Vietnam. In EU2 or FtG 1.2 you could suppress the revolts in Vietnam as China, because provinces occupied by rebels did not spawn new rebels like they do in FtG 1.3. You had to defeat a lot of rebels in the process and invest a lot of money in the troops needed for that task, but it was doable and a great example for how costly expansion often is in real life. Now it's impossible, you simply get overrun by the constantly spawned rebels.

I agree that your plan of action (improving the map step after step, more focus on the right territrorial development of the countries on the map, lateral linking of the event sequences) is sound and probably the best course of action.

I'll look into finding a more reasonable value for the province_revoltrisk in the above mentioned Chinese Pacification of An Nam sequence). I'm not sure quite how much time I'll have in the next couple of days and weeks, but I should be able to squeeze in a few test games in order to find the right number.:)
 
  • 1
Reactions: