Maybe some crime tweaks?

[Archael90]

Crime is very interesting feature, but dealing with this should not be so easy.
Criminal megacorp is great, but i have problems with normal empires that just do not have crimes (at least i never had). To deal with a crime you just need some happiness, bcs crime is tied to it, and skilled governor, if you still have crime (unlikely) you can use governor with -25 crime trait, or build another building with enforcers. And its all, you do not have crime.
But i do want to have and deal with crime, so removing it fully would be a challange. Maybe crime should not be percent based, but just a raw number that can increase inifity, and be not tied to happiness, but rather to pops, and their traits, and high happiness just reduce crime for some % (never 100%, maybe max 50% when happiness would be 100%). Maybe each pop produce 1 crime, and each negative trait produce 1 additional crime. We know that people makes crimes even if they are quite happy, and some are happy by doing this, and this is because we have some bad characteristics, like greed or laziness. This would make crime more impactfull, and gives opportunity to introduce more traits, like "crime inclination" negative trait that gives 2 (or 3) trait points, and makes pop produce 1 additional crime (2 in general, one bcs its negative trait, and second bcs its specific, crime producing trait), "ascetic" - positive traits, that cost 3 (or 4) trait points, and makes pop produce 1 crime less (pops with only positive traits with this one would not produce crimes at all!). It could also works with ME where bad traits could be main reason for glitched software making corrupted drones - "anti-piracy software, positive trait that makes machine pop produce 1 deviancy less)

 

[Archael90]

Any ideas, diacussion? Anything?

 

[Mastikator]

I wonder if deviant pops shouldn't cause more crime, the -10% gov ethos attraction just makes it free species trait points. If it were +25% crime that might be interesting choice rather than a nobrainer

Another option for your crime reaching 100% is to make it overflow into the rest of your empire. If a planet is producing 1000 crime maybe that should be an extra 900 crime evenly divided on the rest of your planets (that aren't at 100% already)

 

[Diezy]

Crime Syndicate feels very easily stamped out with anti-crime, to the point where "Expropriation" Casus Belli never comes into play.

All it comes down to is how much they have to invest in a proper Police force, and how many minerals and building slots they sacrifice for it, vs your 1k+ Credits, Minerals and Influence in order to raise crime there. The long-term bonuses, or basing your economy on Branch Offices kind of sucks

The Police Raids that close the Branch Office don't count as an act of aggression either. Personally I don't like that they close, I'd rather like keeping them open forever even if unprofitable, to maintain that passive +Crime pressure on 'em. With the only true way to shut one down being to raid the Branch Office when declaring war on the Syndicate.

The mechanics that make the Branch Office effective are also a bit conflicting. They scale with the planet's Trade Value, but also Crime. However, Crime lowers Trade Value. It's overall very weird, I feel more like my main goal is to sabotage and annoy my target, rather than make profit off them.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

I wonder if deviant pops shouldn't cause more crime, the -10% gov ethos attraction just makes it free species trait points. If it were +25% crime that might be interesting choice rather than a nobrainer

Another option for your crime reaching 100% is to make it overflow into the rest of your empire. If a planet is producing 1000 crime maybe that should be an extra 900 crime evenly divided on the rest of your planets (that aren't at 100% already)

I like this an idea, so crime basically builds if you have problems on other planets.

 

[Janx14]

Crime Syndicate feels very easily stamped out with anti-crime, to the point where "Expropriation" Casus Belli never comes into play.

All it comes down to is how much they have to invest in a proper Police force, and how many minerals and building slots they sacrifice for it, vs your 1k+ Credits, Minerals and Influence in order to raise crime there. The long-term bonuses, or basing your economy on Branch Offices kind of sucks

The Police Raids that close the Branch Office don't count as an act of aggression either. Personally I don't like that they close, I'd rather like keeping them open forever even if unprofitable, to maintain that passive +Crime pressure on 'em. With the only true way to shut one down being to raid the Branch Office when declaring war on the Syndicate.

The mechanics that make the Branch Office effective are also a bit conflicting. They scale with the planet's Trade Value, but also Crime. However, Crime lowers Trade Value. It's overall very weird, I feel more like my main goal is to sabotage and annoy my target, rather than make profit off them.

I find it sad crime syndicates can't join federations. Not needing permission (especially in exchange from crime dependant bonuses) is not mega powerful. And I don't see why you can't have some more...unsavory alliances taking them in.

 

[Astax]

I think ethics attractions shoudl have greater role in crime. There seems to be a wave of players just ignoring the nuances of ethics attractions and doing whatever, whereas say forgoing psychic tech to keep your empire nonspiritual (sacrificing 5% unity) is a high level play that is not well rewarded.

 

[Archael90]

Refreshing the old topic, that is still valid

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

Crime is very interesting feature,

Is it really? Its just a number from pops that says "If I get above X%, you get some annoying events." For non-Gestalts, you simply enact Crime Lord deal and you never have to deal with Crime. In fact Crime Lord deal is a one-time investment of 25 influence for 10 stability on any planet, Habitat etc. You can enact it by unemploying your enforcer, governor and some pops to increase crime artificially to 10%, then employ everyone again and you get your almost free 10 stability for the rest of the game.

How is this in any way interesting? It would be interesting if you actually had to interact with Crime. As in, you would actually have some events with interesting outcomes. And not only have 2 choices where 1 is always the better one.

Gestalts don't have Crime Lord deal. Their enforcers are also much weaker, so Deviancy is just more annoying to deal with. Especially for Hiveminds which, for whatever reason have it the worst when it comes to deviancy.

For them the Deviancy events is also boring and no interesting choices can be made. What if devianc drones would cause an increase in research in a particular field, or temporarily boost production? But could also lead to low stability events.

It just took me 10 seconds to come up with more interesting events than the usual "deviant drones, -20 stability" event.

Crime Lord deal is a joke, it has been in the game since 2.2 and it should have been either removed or tweaked to be something else than +10 stability a long time ago.

 

[Playwars]

Is it really? Its just a number from pops that says "If I get above X%, you get some annoying events." For non-Gestalts, you simply enact Crime Lord deal and you never have to deal with Crime. In fact Crime Lord deal is a one-time investment of 25 influence for 10 stability on any planet, Habitat etc. You can enact it by unemploying your enforcer, governor and some pops to increase crime artificially to 10%, then employ everyone again and you get your almost free 10 stability for the rest of the game.

How is this in any way interesting? It would be interesting if you actually had to interact with Crime. As in, you would actually have some events with interesting outcomes. And not only have 2 choices where 1 is always the better one.

Gestalts don't have Crime Lord deal. Their enforcers are also much weaker, so Deviancy is just more annoying to deal with. Especially for Hiveminds which, for whatever reason have it the worst when it comes to deviancy.

For them the Deviancy events is also boring and no interesting choices can be made. What if devianc drones would cause an increase in research in a particular field, or temporarily boost production? But could also lead to low stability events.

It just took me 10 seconds to come up with more interesting events than the usual "deviant drones, -20 stability" event.

Crime Lord deal is a joke, it has been in the game since 2.2 and it should have been either removed or tweaked to be something else than +10 stability a long time ago.

I aggree wholeheartedly. Since when is having a society run by criminals more prosperous and stable than a normal one ? I'd expect it to reduce stability by 5 in exchange for no negative events, you're supposed to be compromising there, not gaining free candy.

As for crime, it really, really shouldn't be a percentage. It's, quite honestly, downright stupid. So what, at 100% the whole population are criminals? That's odd, I have 3 criminal pops on my 100 pops planet. It should be a number that just keeps going up, and for example every 20 crime, bam, another criminal job. Every 250 crime you get a criminal boss job, who lowers stability and drains even more trade value. And then you have a crime mechanic where you actually have to take care of it instead of clapping your hands in glee when the mafia takes over.

 

[Archael90]

Crime is a very interesting concept on its own, but poorely designed and implemented in the game. That was the point

 

[Archael90]

Okay, I understand disagrees, but why? Is something wrong with logic? The idea itself? The exaples? Od You just think that current system is good and dont need aby tweaks?

 

[Ridixo]

Okay, I understand disagrees, but why? Is something wrong with logic? The idea itself? The exaples? Od You just think that current system is good and dont need aby tweaks?

Maybe the don't like necromancy

But i too think that crime need a little more impact on the game. Crime Syndicate is a type of empire i really wish it was better because the idea is so cool but so lackluster in the end

 

[Janx14]

Not sure why my comments on criminal syndicates is getting likes now...as of 2.6 criminal heritage empires can join federations.

 

[Archael90]

Not sure why my comments on criminal syndicates is getting likes now...as of 2.6 criminal heritage empires can join federations.

People sometimes are just hitting buttons and doesnt think about it. Perhaps this have to mean "i like now they can".

 

[athenir]

my view on the crime system is based on the fact that it's the pop that are the criminals.

so all the modifier that affect crime should go to the pops rather than directly to the planet.

for example: the +50% crime from the crime syndicate would affect the pops, making the crime from pop going from 6.2 to 9.3 rather than going from 6.2 to 56.2

however the crime system would need to balance the criminality with the lawfulness of the pop.

Max criminality is 2, so when a pop has 0.6 of criminality, then it also has 1.4 lawfulness, so that the total would be 2.

then we could had the modifier, like the +50% criminality from the crime syndicate or the +20% lawfulness from the security officer.
nb: crime syndicate buildings could enhance criminality from specific job making the building more effective if it's matching the planet economy.

the planetary crime rate would then be : ((sum of criminality with modifier) / ((sum of criminality with modifier) +(sum of lawfulness with modifier)))/2

in addition to planetary crime rate, there can be strata crime rate and job crime rate.
therefore if one of those goes beyond a specific threshold an event could be generate.
for example if the miners crime rate exceed 25% they could go on strike, reducing the mineral output of the planet.

this is my view on it and it would certainly need some polishing and rework.

 

[BrokenSky]

my view on the crime system is based on the fact that it's the pop that are the criminals.

so all the modifier that affect crime should go to the pops rather than directly to the planet.

for example: the +50% crime from the crime syndicate would affect the pops, making the crime from pop going from 6.2 to 9.3 rather than going from 6.2 to 56.2

however the crime system would need to balance the criminality with the lawfulness of the pop.

Max criminality is 2, so when a pop has 0.6 of criminality, then it also has 1.4 lawfulness, so that the total would be 2.

then we could had the modifier, like the +50% criminality from the crime syndicate or the +20% lawfulness from the security officer.
nb: crime syndicate buildings could enhance criminality from specific job making the building more effective if it's matching the planet economy.

the planetary crime rate would then be : ((sum of criminality with modifier) / ((sum of criminality with modifier) +(sum of lawfulness with modifier)))/2

in addition to planetary crime rate, there can be strata crime rate and job crime rate.
therefore if one of those goes beyond a specific threshold an event could be generate.
for example if the miners crime rate exceed 25% they could go on strike, reducing the mineral output of the planet.

this is my view on it and it would certainly need some polishing and rework.

It'd be cool if crime from pops of different strata or jobs did different things too (i.e. white collar crime vs blue collar crime). Possibly ruler crime could have a %age effect on the whole planet (e.g. corruption: -x% trade value), while specialist, worker, slave and criminal crime would be just flat numbers?

 

[Derp]

the best tweak for crime would be to remove it

planets have like half a dozen growth limiters and none of them are interesting

 

[Archael90]

A little refresh

 

[DiscoRay]

To get anything the community wants changed these days, it seems you'll need to make an offer to the devs they can't refuse.