Maybe I just suck but I like losing!

[unmerged(809555)]

I'm giving France a go for the first time and just learned a lesson in humility by the hands of Austria. I gave them a very hard fight with a war that raged on for about a decade, but Austria finally won. I'm a little confused though. I played it safe from the start by letting him pile doomstacks and suffer from attrition before moving my forces in. They had a slight edge in terms of his number of troops, but I far outnumbered him in manpower. He also had some really good modifiers to his tactics and morale. Yet even from his lack of manpower, time and time again he was able to replenish his forces from a seemingly endless supply and finally overcame my numbers.

Is this the computer cheating or do I just suck? Or both? I mind losing and like feeling vulnerable but I'm not crazy about the way I lost. Didn't seem quite fair.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

Good lord, just got my ass kicked by Austria again! Is Austria the new France?

 

[FreeSoc]

Good lord, just got my ass kicked by Austria again! Is Austria the new France?

By picking the right terrain and with a 3-star 100-tradition general I got by event, I just smashed a 54-regiment Austrian-led Imperial stack with 27 of Burgundy's finest. And then did it again when they came back for more.

There is the broader question of why more than 50,000 people are dying for the sake of OPM Bar, but hey ho.

If you pick terrain wisely and make sure to avoid river crossings or use higher-manoeuvre generals, then the Austrians are definitely killable (especially with France's 20% Elan bonus as their third NI).

It *could* be that the Austrian AI is using mercenaries, but it could also be that a) you're giving them time to reinforce by letting them run back to Austria and regroup, while also slowly replenishing their manpower pool, or b) there's other parties involved contributing their own manpower. In the aforementioned Burgundy Ironman campaign (which is going swimmingly, because it's the late 1460s and I've crippled France), Austria, because they can call their *own* allies, have also brought Baden, the Palatinate and a few other HRE folk along to the party.

 

[hwoosh]

It's not a cheat, the AI is smart enough to hire mercenaries when it runs out of manpower. Sounds like you didn't carpet-siege immediately after winning the first pitched battle. That's the only way to stop a powerful country like Austria from building/hiring new units.

 

[Jezbob]

Emperor Austria 2 op 4 me

 

[CzechKronner]

Austria blobs like crazy in 1.8 based on the few games I played. Although I did smash them easily as France.

 

[FreeSoc]

It's not a cheat, the AI is smart enough to hire mercenaries when it runs out of manpower. Sounds like you didn't carpet-siege immediately after winning the first pitched battle. That's the only way to stop a powerful country like Austria from building/hiring new units.

Just to add to this - if 1.8 Austria is anything like 1.7 Austria, then (especially with France's manpower) it is best to just chase them back to Austria, murder them as they try and reinforce and regroup and then keep a smaller stack to just rove around and kill newly-raised regiments while you methodically siege anything else.

Realistically, unless you're facing a major pan-Western-European coalition, are low on manpower due to previous wars or are in the midst of the Religious Turmoil modifier, it should be very difficult to lose as France, even without Lucky Nation generals.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

By picking the right terrain and with a 3-star 100-tradition general I got by event, I just smashed a 54-regiment Austrian-led Imperial stack with 27 of Burgundy's finest. And then did it again when they came back for more.

There is the broader question of why more than 50,000 people are dying for the sake of OPM Bar, but hey ho.

If you pick terrain wisely and make sure to avoid river crossings or use higher-manoeuvre generals, then the Austrians are definitely killable (especially with France's 20% Elan bonus as their third NI).

It *could* be that the Austrian AI is using mercenaries, but it could also be that a) you're giving them time to reinforce by letting them run back to Austria and regroup, while also slowly replenishing their manpower pool, or b) there's other parties involved contributing their own manpower. In the aforementioned Burgundy Ironman campaign (which is going swimmingly, because it's the late 1460s and I've crippled France), Austria, because they can call their *own* allies, have also brought Baden, the Palatinate and a few other HRE folk along to the party.

Hmm yeah you would think with my Elan bonus I would be able to defend in a forest province 55k Austrian troops vs. my 40k? Both of us have military tech 9. I took out several loans, hired a bunch of mercs to reach that number and still got a shattered retreat. Now it's hopeless and I'm going to end up losing yet more territory! Ugh... depressing...

 

[unmerged(809555)]

Sounds like you didn't carpet-siege immediately after winning the first pitched battle. That's the only way to stop a powerful country like Austria from building/hiring new units.

No, I didn't follow up with a carpet siege.

 

[FreeSoc]

Hmm yeah you would think with my Elan bonus I would be able to defend in a forest province 55k Austrian troops vs. my 40k? Both of us have military tech 9. I took out several loans, hired a bunch of mercs to reach that number and still got a shattered retreat. Now it's hopeless and I'm going to end up losing yet more territory! Ugh... depressing...

Unless your generals are vastly superior to theirs, I would not go picking fights with a stack 15k larger than your own when your enemies have equal tech. If they arrive in groups (because I can't imagine even the AI being stupid enough to send 55000 men across the Alps as a consolidated stack), then hit them one-by-one when they arrive.

Even with a vastly superior general and a tech *advantage*, my 27000 Burgundians only won their battles against the 50k Imperial stack by a whisker.

No, I didn't follow up with a carpet siege.

It is highly recommended to do so. It's deadly effective against even France if you kill their main army beforehand and prevent them building a new one by using some troops as a roving new-1k-stack-killing-detachment, and it's even more effective against Austria because of their lower manpower.

 

[Trademaster]

I was playing France and Castile PU`d Burgundy. Then I got into war with them and Austria at the same time. Ran out of manpower and mercs.

 

[RHKINC]

I enjoy games where the challenge is breaking out from my starting position. Winning one war, losing the next on another front, back and forth. Once I migrated Persia over to Egypt with roughly the same number of provinces at the end.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

Figures. I finally decide to plan France and they're no longer a superpower :laugh:

I'm actually glad... France used to be such a hassle.

 

[FreeSoc]

Figures. I finally decide to plan France and they're no longer a superpower :laugh:

I'm actually glad... France used to be such a hassle.

I think they're still quite often a superpower in Ironman. If you let them be. In my Burgundy game I allied Castile and the two of us hit them, hard, in 1448, while they were just starting to come to the end of the HYW and had 5 war exhaustion. If you leave them be for 50 years, and *especially* if the Burgundian Inheritance fires, then I can still see them being a superpower in 1.8 (they've still got brilliant basetax and manpower). If you hit them hard and early, though, then they lack the sheer volume of manpower and cash that they get after they've taken England's Continental bits, annexed their vassals and (worst case) eaten Burgundy with Austria.

 

[Incompetent]

How's the tech situation? Being behind in military tech can have devastating consequences, especially early on. If you're fighting a lot of wars at the start of the game and your king is bad in military, it may be worth choosing military national focus just to make sure you can keep up.

Also, France is a superpower *once they have integrated their cores*. In 1444, France is only on a par with Burgundy, and diploannexing your vassals actually weakens you militarily in the short term.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

Question: I positioned my troops in a forest province with a river crossing between the approaching enemy stack. The enemy only suffered a -1 modifier from the forest penalty but no river crossing penalty. Why not? Do these penalties not stack?

 

[FreeSoc]

Question: I positioned my troops in a forest province with a river crossing between the approaching enemy stack. The enemy only suffered a -1 modifier from the forest penalty but no river crossing penalty. Why not? Do these penalties not stack?

Did their General have a higher Manoeuvre stat than yours? If so, then river crossings don't count.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

How's the tech situation? Being behind in military tech can have devastating consequences, especially early on. If you're fighting a lot of wars at the start of the game and your king is bad in military, it may be worth choosing military national focus just to make sure you can keep up.

Also, France is a superpower *once they have integrated their cores*. In 1444, France is only on a par with Burgundy, and diploannexing your vassals actually weakens you militarily in the short term.

The only difference between my troops and Austria is a .1 advantage in morale for Austria due to his high army tradition. I'm even using the more defensive troops in tech 9 and fighting defensively! Frustrating!

 

[Incompetent]

The only difference between my troops and Austria is a .1 advantage in morale for Austria due to his high army tradition. I'm even using the more defensive troops in tech 9 and fighting defensively! Frustrating!

High army tradition probably means the Austrians have better generals, which makes an enormous difference (generals are a bit OP in Europa Universalis games). Also 'offensive' and 'defensive' pips have nothing to do with whether your army is attacking or defending. Yellow pips represent ability to deal damage and green pips represent ability to mitigate damage.

 

[unmerged(809555)]

Did their General have a higher Manoeuvre stat than yours? If so, then river crossings don't count.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Good info to consider, thanks!