May 13th Beta: GENERAL FEEDBACK THREAD

[ulmont]

Please, can somebody type the text reflecting MrT suggestion. I would copy and paste into Global_Deseases_Events. I know it is beta, but with current set-up it is unplayable for me.

This is ridiculous. You know you'll get hit with the bubonic and the pneumonic plague at some point during the game, it's a game not a historical simulation...so how could having the plagues come earlier make the game "unplayable"?

But, because I am filled with love for all God's children, even the ones that make hyperbolic comments on the forums, I offer the following untested revisions of the bubonic and pneumonic events:

#################################
# The Bubonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1069

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
                condition = { type = year value = 1100 } # RUC - plague not possible before 1100
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }

                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1340-1350 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = bubonic_plague }
	}
}

#################################
# The Pneumonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1070

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
                condition = { type = year value = 1100 } # RUC - plague not possible before 1100
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1355-1365 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH	
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = pneumonic_plague }
	}
}

-Richard Campbell.



Edit by MrT to remove the duplicate in the second event that would cause it to crash
Edit by ulmont to add the 1100 requirement in the second event, or you'll still get the pneumonic plague in 1067 - how'd you miss that, T?

 

[Real]

Thanks ulmont! I will try.
You just make a few God's pets happier.
Probably it is more happynies for me then I deserve, as Czech won Hockey Championship yesterday.
Cheers!

This is ridiculous. You know you'll get hit with the bubonic and the pneumonic plague at some point during the game, it's a game not a historical simulation...so how could having the plagues come earlier make the game "unplayable"?

But, because I am filled with love for all God's children, even the ones that make hyperbolic comments on the forums, I offer the following untested revisions of the bubonic and pneumonic events:

#################################
# The Bubonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1069

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
                condition = { type = year value = 1100} # RUC - plague not possible before 1100
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1340-1350 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = bubonic_plague }
	}
}

#################################
# The Pneumonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1070

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1355-1365 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH	
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = pneumonic_plague }
	}
}

-Richard Campbell.

 

[unmerged(22496)]

Competiting dynasties...

I think that advance through marriages, murders and inheriting is too easy for human player.
Would be great if AI controlled states was more agressive in assassinatings leading to inheritance.
Would be also great if you consider "archduke Ferdinand" case: discovered and successfull attack on succesor means declaration of war in revenge.
I played as Brittany and i killed 3 succesors of king of Germany. Reaction was only assassinating attempts against my dynasty. Sweeping away Brittany would be for Germany even cheaper solution. When duke of Brittany died he had less then -1000 piety and terrible badboy, but his son managed to keep integrity of Germany (deal with vassals disloyalty).

 

[unmerged(24980)]

You're right. It can't be. See my response to your report in the event thread. The vassal cannot have this event trigger if he is anything other than Catholic.


As per the patch notes, this is now possible (though highly improbable). My calculations would tend to suggest that the bubonic plague occuring outside of its normal time frame (a 10-year window in the 1300's) is about 1 in 8 games, thus it shouldn't surprise you if it does occur at some point...and when it does then it could be as early as 1066 or as late as the last day of the game.

I'm three for three having it by 1080 in Northern Europe.
I've also notice that the inter-religious wars seem pretty fierce in Spain -- one game the reconquista was nearly done by 1100, another the Moslems had conquered all the Spanish Kingdoms by that date, and in the third, which I played until 1160, the Moslems were down to about three provinces, and then the Fatamids too, the whole Penensula, some other Moslem group took Hungary, Bohemia, and half of Germany, and the Seljuk Turks took central France and Southern England. And Pagans had taken Poland.

Aside from me (Kingdom of Naples), the crusades where a big snoozeathon.

I was playing on Normal difficulaty, and wimpy AI.

I think that a real problem is that, due to the ease of conquest of different religion territory, the AI isn't keen on making peace among itself, and the end result is that these religious wars look a lot like a game of Risk, with the two sides taking vast swaths of territory, running out of troops, and then losing them equally as quickly.

I've also noticed that once you get the supper sheikdoms, or if one of the Moslem powers ends up with a quarter of Europe, the Christain powers are loath to declare war on it, so you end up with Moslem counties in England that last thirty or fourty years.

The more I play the game, the more I think that it should be harder to conquer pagan and moslem areas.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Ah thank god the server is up again

Started a few games this weekend.

Some remarks.

The game is very, very stable.

In 3 out of 4 games the plagues started before 1100.

When you are vassal of the German king, you are always the one which titles he claims first (had that happening as Duke of Saxony, Swabia and Bohemia).
The King then dow's you and you are lost.

I thought that there was a minimum regimentsize before it could be mobilezed? I now see regiments with 1 to 10 people in it. Once the Papal states were overrun by Muslims and a 1 (one, uno, eins, een !!!) man regiment of the papal state laid siege to Rome, problably the Pope himself :rofl:

Once as vassal of the king of Germany there was a rebellion in one of my provinces (Lubeck) I crushed it with my own forces. In the mean time there was also a crusade going on against Cordoba. I didn't lent my troops to my liege. I saw some regiments walking north in stead of south, they move to Lubeck and stayed there. During another crusade there was a revolt in Thuringia, the German king sent his all his troops to Thuringia and let them stay there. While the Fatimids were taking Italy.

The AI is sometimes slow to react, the sleeping AI ?. As king of Bohemia I dow'ed the king of Poland, we had about equal forces so I thought it was going to be a good fight. But sadly no, the Polish king didn't move his regiments. Same happened when I was at war against the Prince of Polotsk.

The AI is very slow in demobilizing his troops. Even when the war is long over.

The salic consanguinity seems to work now.

EDIT
And thank god that the crusader trait is not a bad trait anymore. I have had it a few times, but I still had positive pietygain each month.

 

[Mazza]

I just had a game which lasted all of 20 years. Rock stable and all. Lots of plague. I was playing as the Duke of Norfolk. Around 1078, my liege, to whom I had 100% loyalty, decided to DOW me along with his ally the king of France. Miraculously I managed to fend off his armies alarmingly well despite his overwhelming numeric superiority, but finally he captured all my provinces and annexed me. Any ideas why the King of England would declare war on me like that, seemingly without justification? Is this an isolated experience? It sounds like it might be something along the lines of Veldmaarschalk's experience with his king.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I've seen that on Furious (and sometimes on Agressive) agressiviness.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

German king, fighting rebels



Two very brave men

 

[Bloodsucker]

@Mazza
When I play any English vassal I ALWAYS get DoWed by king without ANY reason....Also happened when I played as vassal of Germany....It's no wonder I don't play vassals of anyone anymore cause I'm scared

p.s.
I play on normal/normal.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

The spread of plague looked pretty close to perfect in all three games that I played. It spread nicely along the spreadneighbour jumping points and the overall rate was pretty close to perfect.

I didn't see any of the spreadingneighbor changes proposed a bit ago implimented.

Anyway nothing i can comment on right now as my game didn't last to long before a CTD.

 

[tombom]

A couple of things:

1)
The event about a bastard son declaring he should be ruler fired... when the character it fired for was dead.

2) I have a Muslim Sheik as a vassal of one of my Counts. I have the savegame if wanted. I was fighting a war against the Sheik of Tripoli when he took Jerusalem. After I took Tripoli, he then was suddenly a vassal of one of my counts and I was at peace with him.

3) Castille-Leon and Navarra are being constantly attacked by the Muslims, with Navarra falling after the first attack. Aragon is being attacked by Catalonia after a Heretic Excommunicated King. Spanish Galicia's doing well, but it will be inherited by Castille-Leon.

4) Crusading has been good, with lots of wars with people against the Fatamids, the current targets.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Jinnai: spreadneighbour revision was done 2 or 3 patches ago (file date April 17th). What exactly do you think was missed?

tombon:
1. WAD. When a bastard declares makes himself legitimate (ie removes bastard trait) I assumed that a human player would rather like to know about it since it might affect his succession. The only way I can notify the player is to trigger an event for the bastard's father - whether he is alive or not. So the dead guy getting this event is the bastard's father. The dad is dead, but the bastard is not. If you click on dad's portait in the event box you can check his kids to see who has just declared himself legitimate.

2. Still trying to track down why that happens. I had the same thing happen to me a week ago and it's definitely a bug (and possible source of a crash bug).

3. Sounds about right. I think that an all-AI Spain will tend to fall into Muslim hands a little more than we might like (i.e. it's more likely to be somewhat non-historical) and then be re-conquered by others via crusade. If I make the balance better for AI results then it's simply too easy a cake-walk for a human player in the region.

4.

 

[Real]

Hey ulmont, I tried you text, but got pneumonic plague in 1083
Anybody has an idea?

This is ridiculous. You know you'll get hit with the bubonic and the pneumonic plague at some point during the game, it's a game not a historical simulation...so how could having the plagues come earlier make the game "unplayable"?

But, because I am filled with love for all God's children, even the ones that make hyperbolic comments on the forums, I offer the following untested revisions of the bubonic and pneumonic events:

#################################
# The Bubonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1069

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
                condition = { type = year value = 1100 } # RUC - plague not possible before 1100
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { bubonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }

                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1340-1350 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = bubonic_plague }
	}
}

#################################
# The Pneumonic Plague arrives	#
#################################
province_event = {
	id = 1070

	picture = "event_plague"

	trigger = {
                condition = { type = year value = 1100 } # RUC - plague not possible before 1100
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague = yes } } }
		condition = { type = not value = { type = has_province_effect value = { pneumonic_plague_immunity = yes } } }
		condition = {
			type = or
			condition = { type = area value = 693 } 	#Baghdad
			condition = { type = area value = 628 }		#Bukhara
			condition = { type = area value = 796 }		#Fustat
			condition = { type = area value = 646 }		#Isfahan
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		years = 1000

                # RUC - MTTH 100,000 years 1100-1175
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1100 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1175 } }

                        factor = 100
               } 

                # RUC - MTTH 50,000 years 1175-1250
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1175 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1250 } }

                        factor = 50
               } 


                # RUC - MTTH 10,000 years 1250-1325
                modifier = {
                        condition = { type = year value = 1250 }
                        condition = { type = not value = { type = year value = 1325 } }

                        factor = 10
               } 
     
                # RUC - removed old 1355-1365 modifier, 1325-end of game 
                # is the normal 1000 year MTTH	
	}

	action_a = {
		effect = { type = add_province_effect value = pneumonic_plague }
	}
}

-Richard Campbell.



Edit by MrT to remove the duplicate in the second event that would cause it to crash
Edit by ulmont to add the 1100 requirement in the second event, or you'll still get the pneumonic plague in 1067 - how'd you miss that, T?

 

[unmerged(2456)]

The ones for the muslim holy sites of mecca, medina and jerusalem. The trade route from seither medina or mecca through Cairo to Alexandria, and finishing up the link from Beirut through to Bagdad so that the traderoute is connected to them as well.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

One thing i think that i can comment on is that crusading seems to be happening too much and too fast. England goes into iberia and conquers 1 province and then it bloats to almost 20 in 2 years.

Another thing:

Johan's changes to the code for capitals as well as redoing the event triggers as they are now overall make getting disease much easier for higher tiered rulers. Mostly i think its on Johan's end since its still possible to keep a high efficnecy.

 

[ulmont]

Hey ulmont, I tried you text, but got pneumonic plague in 1083. Anybody has an idea?

I sent you a PM before you tried it - if you look, I forgot to add the "condition = { type = year value = 1100 } # RUC - plague not possible before 1100" line to the pneumonic plague correction. I think the current post is correct.

Edit: Mr. T. has a better fix at http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199059

-Richard Campbell.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

The ones for the muslim holy sites of mecca, medina and jerusalem. The trade route from seither medina or mecca through Cairo to Alexandria, and finishing up the link from Beirut through to Bagdad so that the traderoute is connected to them as well.

Odd...I thought those had been added in.

Could you double check that they aren't, if if they aren't then please dig up that spreadneighbour thread and post the neighbour pair proposals again since I seem to misplaced my old workbook that had my notes on that subject (it's burried somewhere on my desk under the last few weeks of work and I've started a new notebook on current issues).

Thanks.

 

[Ayeshteni]

This is ridiculous. You know you'll get hit with the bubonic and the pneumonic plague at some point during the game, it's a game not a historical simulation...so how could having the plagues come earlier make the game "unplayable"?

But, because I am filled with love for all God's children, even the ones that make hyperbolic comments on the forums, I offer the following untested revisions of the bubonic and pneumonic events:

Not ridiculous at all...
I love the plague events, spread nicely too. However, after the first game, I don't particularily like all my games having the plague rampage after two years (1068+), brutalising my dynasty (as it should) when dynasties are only starting to form and stabalise (note the need for court boosting events). Having the plague hit 1 times out of 15-20 games after 1100AD is perfectly fine by me.

yours
Ayeshteni

 

[unmerged(6777)]

One thing i think that i can comment on is that crusading seems to be happening too much and too fast. England goes into iberia and conquers 1 province and then it bloats to almost 20 in 2 years.

Could be. I did tweak them back down in this patch since it seemed that there were quite a few very long periods without crusades in both member reports and in my own test games. As to what happens during and after a crusade with any specific country, there's not much I can do about that.

Johan's changes to the code for capitals as well as redoing the event triggers as they are now overall make getting disease much easier for higher tiered rulers. Mostly i think its on Johan's end since its still possible to keep a high efficnecy.

AFAIK there were no changes to this on a code level so maybe you had a string of bad luck? I did make some changes to illnesses on the weekend that will be in the next patch and might help the situation. Amongst other things, I changed the courtsize trigger restriction upwards for the court illness spread acceleration events, so that will probably help mitigaye things a bit. It could also be related to there being a lot of plague around -- something that is intentionally scripted to have a potentially devastating effect on people's courts. Considering that last week's feedback included a thread about how not nearly enough was happening in this area...

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Could be. I did tweak them back down in this patch since it seemed that there were quite a few very long periods without crusades in both member reports and in my own test games. As to what happens during and after a crusade with any specific country, there's not much I can do about that..

Change Log

From Johan

• ...
• Tweaked capital allocation algoritm, introducing some inertia in it.
• ...

Wow...i came across an new error today. Apparently my message with just quotes is considered too short.