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Maximizing Trade Good Value for Fun and profit

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Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
knul said:
So "supply" isn't really supply, then? Confusing.
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"Supply" is all the units of a trade good produced in the world, with the province-by-province modifiers in effect. So supply is a modified "supply".

Demand is where things are a bit odd I think.

Here's a sort of optimization scheme for price manipulation:

Things to do:

Stability = 3 (1.1 Salt/Grain/Wine Demand)
Serfdom/FreeSubjects >= 1 (1.1 for Copper Supply, 0.5 for Grain Supply)
Mercantilism/FreeTrade >= 1 (0.2 for Grain Supply)
Quality/Quantity < -3 (3.0 for Fur Demand)
Gold Income % >= 10% (1.1 for non-European Good Demand)
Keep 1 artillery unit in each province (0.1 for Grain Supply and 1.1 for Copper Demand)
Build all buildings, especially regimental camps, marketplaces and refineries (lots of bonuses)

Preventative measures:

No embargoes (eliminates penalty for non-European good Demand)
Keep revolt risk at 0 (eliminates severe penalty for non-European good Demand)
Trade Income % >= 10% (eliminates penalty on Wool and Cloth Demand)
Be at peace (eliminates penalty on Fur Demand while at war)

Optional:

*if you like Catholicism, 1.2 to Fish Demand
*let yourself be looted/blockaded/conquered for modest bonuses if you like :)
*Choose your poison for Aristocracy/Plutocracy -- either Wool/Cloth Supply will be harmed
*consider Admiralty for a 5.0 to Naval Supplies Demand

[EDIT: What is clear is that the penalties associated with going Mercantilistic are significantly negative, and should have a big impact on the "Mercantilism v. Free Trade" debate.]
 
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@lac: The thing with freetrade/mercantilism is that the mallus for mercantilism is countered by the marketplace/tax assesor/constable/constable bonus. And since supply is capped at 225%, the mallus doesn't really matter in the long run.
 
naggy said:
For Naval Supplies, build an Admiralty and own 50 big ships. I didn't bold these, since these effects are small (Capital only compared to the world), and you certainly shouldn't chose to build an Admiralty solely to boost Naval Supplies prices a smidgeon. Thus, the largest useful change you can make is to move your slider towards Land, which halves the supply. Again - you want to choose how to move your land/naval slider for other reasons.
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Consider GC start 1399:
1) England (0 naval supply provinces);
2) Norway (2 naval supply provinces, but not the capital);
3) TO (4 naval supply provinces; 1 is their capital).

Would England benefit economically by having 50 big ships and by building an Admirality? I guess no since they have no naval supply provinces.

On the other hand Norway would profit somewhat in this case, and TO even more.

TO has 4 naval supply provinces and building an Admirality is nearly mandatory as it will give a major economic boost.

Comments? :)
 
knul said:
So "supply" isn't really supply, then? Confusing.

Honestly, unless your nation spans a considerable part of the globe, there is little you can do to manipulate prices (besides the grain thing, that sounds like it has impact). What the data really shows is that in particular markets and to a lesser extent custom houses, constables and tax assesors make the New World / Far East trade boom. As most European countries are building those, the prices of colonial goods will rise.
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Correct. It's easier to manipulate supply of a regional good, since that requires less of a footprint.
 
Selmuth said:
@lac: The thing with freetrade/mercantilism is that the mallus for mercantilism is countered by the marketplace/tax assesor/constable/constable bonus. And since supply is capped at 225%, the mallus doesn't really matter in the long run.
Click to expand...

Selmuth... supply is neither capped at 225%, nor do the marketplace/tax assessor/constable bonuses "cancel" the maluses.

You should not think of marketplaces as having a bonus. Really, not having a marketplace basically destroys (by a factor of 5!) the Demand for non-European trade goods. They've clearly coded it to be a sort of threshold after which non-European trade goods become valuable; prior to that, they're basically not that important.

The buildings I think shouldn't really be viewed as "bonuses", but just as important points in the game where the trading evolves in a particular way. Who doesn't build their buildings? Even the AI does, as soon as possible. These are the mechanisms by which Paradox influences how trading changes... if you remove them, and it's just about colonies, then things would change much slower.

The Mercantilism penalty means that, again, the demand for these goods is halved--that's bad if you trade in them/produce them. (Yes, even if you build all those buildings: it's still half of what it "would be"; there's an opportunity cost here.) But look at the GrainSupply -- going FreeTrade again demolishes this number. This is a meaningful thing if you have lots of Grain provinces. Yes, I appreciate that parking 1 regiment in every province has an even more dramatic effect on GrainSupply, but that's pretty "gamey" (to use Johan's term).

Also -- from an as-yet-unposted reference of event triggers, I know that Mercantilism is NOT your friend. :)
 
HNT said:
Consider GC start 1399:
1) England (0 naval supply provinces);
2) Norway (2 naval supply provinces, but not the capital);
3) TO (4 naval supply provinces; 1 is their capital).

Would England benefit economically by having 50 big ships and by building an Admirality? I guess no since they have no naval supply provinces.

On the other hand Norway would profit somewhat in this case, and TO even more.

TO has 4 naval supply provinces and building an Admirality is nearly mandatory as it will give a major economic boost.

Comments? :)
Click to expand...

Wouldn't really matter either way for England -- except that upping the price of a good means its trade value increases, which means the CoT value it's trading in may increase.

For Norway & TO, yes, it could affect the Production values in their provinces.

But the 20/50 ships triggers are really just to add a bit of volatility to the game -- they only happen while you're at war, so it's hard to count on them.
 
Lac said:
"Supply" is all the units of a trade good produced in the world, with the province-by-province modifiers in effect. So supply is a modified "supply".

Demand is where things are a bit odd I think.

Here's a sort of optimization scheme for price manipulation:

Things to do:

Stability = 3 (1.1 Salt/Grain/Wine Demand)
Serfdom/FreeSubjects >= 1 (1.1 for Copper Supply, 0.5 for Grain Supply)
Mercantilism/FreeTrade >= 1 (0.2 for Grain Supply)
Quality/Quantity < -3 (3.0 for Fur Demand)
Gold Income % >= 10% (1.1 for non-European Good Demand)
Keep 1 artillery unit in each province (0.1 for Grain Supply and 1.1 for Copper Demand)
Build all buildings, especially regimental camps, marketplaces and refineries (lots of bonuses)

Preventative measures:

No embargoes (eliminates penalty for non-European good Demand)
Keep revolt risk at 0 (eliminates severe penalty for non-European good Demand)
Trade Income % >= 10% (eliminates penalty on Wool and Cloth Demand)
Be at peace (eliminates penalty on Fur Demand while at war)

Optional:

*if you like Catholicism, 1.2 to Fish Demand
*let yourself be looted/blockaded/conquered for modest bonuses if you like :)
*Choose your poison for Aristocracy/Plutocracy -- either Wool/Cloth Supply will be harmed
*consider Admiralty for a 5.0 to Naval Supplies Demand
Click to expand...

I did that game in a world conquest once, and while I can't seem to find any pictures of it, I'm pretty sure that I had all the exotic goods maxed in demand
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402887&page=8

Continuing the discussion about mercantilism/free trade/good prices doesn't make sense outside the scope of a (almost) world conquest. You are quite limited in manipulating the prices unless you have a huge empire. If you can manipulate the prices, you can also conquer the provinces that give you mercantilistic bonusses. As you can see above, I agree that going free trade was the best way to maximize trade good value in IN.. but this has changed in HttT.
 
Whoa! Awesome thread! I think I saw that a long time ago and totally forgot about it... why isn't it sticky'd?! All the interest Paradox takes in fostering community, and threads like this (and, yes, the perennial "strange screenshots..." that people can't get enough of) are a big part of that.

RE: price influence, I agree for the most part that it's not terribly effective to try to actively control prices. One shouldn't expect anything dramatic from that. But, the practical gameplay advice is simple and sensible enough to be useful.

RE: Mercantilism/FreeTrade: it really comes down to this-- your profit potential is considerably higher with FreeTrade, but many (most?) players will find Mercantilism better rewards their playing styles...

...ALMOST: there are some very significant events that accompany FreeTrade that shouldn't be ignored.
 
Lac said:
...ALMOST: there are some very significant events that accompany FreeTrade that shouldn't be ignored.
Click to expand...

The huge Trade Income Modifiers from the two sound tolls and East India Trade help Mercantilism heavily.
 
naggy said:
The huge Trade Income Modifiers from the two sound tolls and East India Trade help Mercantilism heavily.
Click to expand...

for venice is another decision possible, stato da mar!
 
The way to get the most modifiers is Hansa->Netherlands, then go mercantilistic and pile on the two tolls and the east India route. Free trade helps with prices, but mercantilism is the way to go for the modifiers - not only the triggered ones, but also the decisions you can pick on the way like House of Trade.
 
naggy said:
The huge Trade Income Modifiers from the two sound tolls and East India Trade help Mercantilism heavily.
Click to expand...

Ah, I'd forgotten that these don't work for highest free trade. Well let me put it this way: full Mercantilism (probably) isn't optimal... but I've only a faint suspicion and no backing data for that for the moment =)
 
ulmont said:
The "for Fun and profit" phrase came out of marketing to hobbyists in the 1950s as to how they could turn their hobby into a moneymaking enterprise. After that, the phrase exploded.
http://bit.ly/cA3jSK
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I love this kind of stuff.

I also learned yesterday that "it girl" comes from Clara Bow and the movie "It" in the 1920s, and that John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison.

Awesome.
 
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