Materialism and psionic research

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AaronArx

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I have a materialist society and I kinda researched most of the techs aviable except for the dangerous ones ^^

Now I kinda want to access the psionic research as well as the precognitive inferfaces as they sound quite neat...

How do i do that?

I'm currently in a federation with a nation of spiritual seekers, and I also have a migration treaty with them. How do I get a scientist with psionic expertise?
 

Guilliman88

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Allow xenos leadership and you'll get alien researchers when you roll new researchers. Might take a while to get the one you want though
 

ParagonExile

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You need a scientist with the "paranoid" trait. Send them out exploring.

They may eventually come across a particular survey event that gives them the psionics affinity trait. Set this scientist as your research leader, and eventually you will draw the "Psionic Theory" tech.

Yes, it's not easy.
 
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AaronArx

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You need a scientist with the "paranoid" trait. Send them out exploring.

They may eventually come across a particular survey event that gives them the psionics affinity trait. Set this scientist as your research leader, and eventually you will draw the "Psionic Theory" tech.

Yes, it's not easy.

Question...how do I get a scientist with the paranoid trait? ^^
 

Stripes

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Shortest ways are two:

You roll Xeno Scientist with Psyonics Trait (requires xeno pop's and).
You roll Psyonics on Scientist level up (chances are quite low with basic chance to roll new trait being very low in itself).

Or the longer way:

Specific success in specific anomaly (the results ARE semi-random) with Paranoid Trait being present.

I also recommend spamming lowest cost tech in research while you have Scientist needed - the trick is to draw "Psyonic Theory" "card" before he/she/it kick the bucket, you only need the expertise for first tech in this branch.
 

The Founder

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As materialist Government (the researchers Ethos does not mater afaik) you need the Pisonics Expertise Trait to get "Psionics Theory" (the weighting multiplier is times 0 without - total lockout).
After you got Psionics theory, you can just walk through the line without any further issues.
If you are at tops neutral on the Materialism Axis, you have some chance to get it.

But to get said trait you need Psionic Theory, according to gamefiles:
Code:
leader_trait_expertise_psionics = {
    cost = 1
    modification = no
    icon = "gfx/interface/icons/traits/leader_traits/leader_trait_expertise_psionics.dds"
    modifier = {
        category_psionics_research_speed_mult = @categorybonus
    }
    leader_trait = yes
    leader_class = { scientist }
    prerequisites = { tech_psionic_theory }
    opposites = {
        "leader_trait_expertise_materials"
        "leader_trait_expertise_rocketry"
        "leader_trait_expertise_voidcraft"
        "leader_trait_expertise_industry"
        "leader_trait_expertise_field_manipulation"
        "leader_trait_expertise_particles"
        "leader_trait_expertise_computing"
        "leader_trait_expertise_new_worlds"
        "leader_trait_expertise_statecraft"
        "leader_trait_expertise_biology"
        "leader_trait_expertise_military_theory"
    }
    # higher chance to generate techs in category psionics (done in tech-script)
  
    ai_categories = {
        society
    }
  
    ai_weight = {
        weight = 100
    }
}
So, egg and chicken.

I somehow managed to get it anyway in 1.0.3 as materailist. There is a chance that random trait gain does not check those prequisties properly.
Somebody mentioned it might be possible that Having Zro-Resource tech reserached/having the resource accessible can cause a Psionic Scientist to spawn on leader selection screen. Can not confirm the former yet (resource might be needed).

Unless you get the trait from a event, there is no way for materialsits to get thier foot into psionics.
 

Stripes

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As materialist Government (the researchers Ethos does not mater afaik) you need the Pisonics Expertise Trait to get "Psionics Theory" (the weighting multiplier is times 0 without - total lockout).

I have encountered Psionic Scientists being available for hiring as Materialist - but to be fair, it was probably "Psionic Theory" being already researched affecting Leaders Pool, like shown in code.
 

smjjames

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I've made a suggestion on how to make it easier to get psionics as materialist: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-reduce-the-difficulty-of-getting-it.956003/

Also, I thought the event needed the 'spark of genus' trait to get the event which gives the scientist the psi specialty trait? As for getting it outside of events, I got the trait randomly on levelup once, but the chances of that happening again are LOW.

Here's that event in it's entirety. It says that meticulous can also trigger it, but I'm not sure if only 'spark of genius' or that, meticilous and paranoid can also get the psi expertise trait. Also, it's file anomaly_events_5 under the events folder.
Code:
### Echoes from the Deep #################################################################################
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4045
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4045.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_ocean
    show_sound = event_ship_bridge
    location = FROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes
 
    immediate = { from = { orbital_deposit_tile = { clear_deposits = yes } } }

    option = {
        trigger = {
            leader = {
                OR = {
                    has_trait = leader_trait_meticulous
                    has_trait = leader_trait_spark_of_genius
                }
            }
        }
        name = "anomaly.4045.a"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4046 }
        }
    }
    option = {
        trigger = {
            leader = { has_trait = leader_trait_paranoid }
        }
        name = "anomaly.4045.b"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4049 }
        }
    }
    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4045.c"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4051 }
        }
    }
    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4045.d"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4052 }
        }
    }
}

#If stroke of genius you find source
#story4
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4046
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4046.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_in_the_dark
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
    location = FROMFROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        hidden_effect = { owner = { country_event = { id = story.4 days = 30 } } }
        fromfrom = {
            add_modifier = {
                modifier = "hostile_environment"
                days = -1
            }
            add_modifier = {
                modifier = "ancient_one"
                days = -1
            }
        }
        owner = {
            ######## Gain NEGATIVE Press Coverage ########
            ##############################################
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_high
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_negative_high"
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_negative_high
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_medium
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_negative_medium"
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_negative_high
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_low
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_negative_low"
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_negative_medium
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        NOT = {
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_high
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_medium
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_low
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_low
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_medium
                            has_modifier = media_coverage_negative_high
                        }
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_negative_low
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_low
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_positive_low"
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_medium
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_positive_medium"
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_positive_low
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    owner = {
                        has_modifier = media_coverage_positive_high
                    }
                }
                owner = {
                    remove_modifier = "media_coverage_positive_high"
                    add_modifier = {
                        modifier = media_coverage_positive_medium
                        days = 1800
                    }
                }
            }
            ##### End of Gain NEGATIVE Press Coverage #####
            ###############################################
        }
    }

    option = { #contact the beast
        name = "anomaly.4046.a"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4047}
        }
        hidden_effect = {
            fromfrom = {
                remove_modifier = "hostile_environment"
            }
        }
    }
    option = { #try to kill the beast
        name = "anomaly.4046.b"
        hidden_effect = {
            fromfrom = {
                remove_modifier = "ancient_one"
            }
            ship_event = { id = anomaly.4048}
        }
    }
    option = { #leave it alone
        name = "anomaly.4046.c"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4046.c.tooltip"
        hidden_effect = {
            fromfrom = {
                orbital_deposit_tile = {
                    add_deposit = d_immense_society_deposit
                    add_deposit = d_society_deposit
                }
            }
        }
    }
}
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4047
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4047.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_in_the_dark
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
    location = FROMFROMFROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    option = {
        name = anomaly.4047.a
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4047.a.tooltip"
        hidden_effect = {
            FROM = {
                fromfrom = {
                    orbital_deposit_tile = {
                        add_deposit = d_immense_society_deposit
                        add_deposit = d_society_deposit
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4048
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4048.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_in_the_dark
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
    location = FROMFROMFROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        FROM = {
            fromfrom = {
                change_pc = pc_toxic
            }
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4048.a"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4048.a.tooltip"
        hidden_effect = {
            FROM = {
                fromfrom = {
                    orbital_deposit_tile = {
                        add_deposit = d_immense_society_deposit
                        add_deposit = d_society_deposit
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }
}
#If paranoid - leader finds source and gets stuff
#story4
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4049
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4049.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_in_the_dark
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
    location = FROMFROMFROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        hidden_effect = { owner = { country_event = { id = story.4 days = 30 } } }
        leader = {
            add_trait = leader_trait_maniacal
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4049.a"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4049.a.tooltip"
        hidden_effect = {
            ship_event = {id = anomaly.4050 days = 7}
            set_disabled = no
        }
    }
    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4049.b"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4049.b.tooltip"
        hidden_effect = {
            fleet = {
                kill_leader = { type = scientist show_notification = no}
            }
            set_disabled = no
        }
    }
}
#If paranoid - leader finds source and gets stuff
#story 4
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4050
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4050.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_psionics
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
    location = FROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
        hidden_effect = {
            leader = {
                add_trait = leader_trait_expertise_psionics
                add_experience = 100
            }
        }
    }

    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4050.a"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4050.a.tooltip"
    }
    option = {
        name = "anomaly.4050.b"
        custom_tooltip = "anomaly.4050.a.tooltip"
    }
}
#If abandoning for crews sake
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4051
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4051.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_metropolis
    show_sound = event_radio_chatter
    location = FROMFROMFROM
 
    is_triggered_only = yes

    immediate = {
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        ##### End of Gain POSITIVE Press Coverage #####
        ###############################################
    }

    option = {
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        hidden_effect = {
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#If keep going on anyway
#story4
ship_event = {
    id = anomaly.4052
    title = "anomaly.4045.name"
    desc = "anomaly.4052.desc"
    picture = GFX_evt_ocean
    show_sound = event_mystic_reveal
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        owner = {
            add_modifier = {
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                days = 2700
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        ######## Gain NEGATIVE Press Coverage ########
        ##############################################
        if = {
            limit = {
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            owner = {
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        ##### End of Gain NEGATIVE Press Coverage #####
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    option = {
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            FROM = {
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}

For materialists to get the Psionic theory tech the stars need to align and Saturn needs to be at its apex or whatever the hell. Seriously it's an uphill battle.

Yeah, it's supposed to be harder for spiritualists to get robotics or something, but it's a cakewalk of cakewalks of cakewalks (yes, I meant to say that three times) compared to the difficulty that materialists have to go through to get the same thing. Which is why I made a suggestion thread on it. The solution is to either make it just as difficult for spiritualists or make it a heck of a lot easier for materialists.
 
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ShadowDragon868

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Not to mention that robuttocks just isn't as good. Psi research leads to the Psi Jump Drive, which is insanely good, not to mention precognitive combat computers.

I find it offensive that the most very devoted researchers in the galaxy can't get the awesomesauce techs, while the idiots worshiping moon-faeries can.
 
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smjjames

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You know, maybe the prerequisite should be zro distillation rather than psionics tech, but yeah, it makes no sense that spiritualists only have a slightly harder time than usual to obtain the psi tech while materialists have it extremely difficult to get it.

Like I said earlier, the solution is to either make it equally hard to get robotics for spiritualists, which I'm pretty sure won't be all that popular, or make it a hell of a lot easier for materialists to get the tech.

Actually, I wonder if it's even WAD in the first place.
 

ShadowDragon868

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You know, maybe the prerequisite should be zro distillation rather than psionics tech, but yeah, it makes no sense that spiritualists only have a slightly harder time than usual to obtain the psi tech while materialists have it extremely difficult to get it.

Like I said earlier, the solution is to either make it equally hard to get robotics for spiritualists, which I'm pretty sure won't be all that popular, or make it a hell of a lot easier for materialists to get the tech.

A big part of the problem is that robotics just aren't that good. Psi gives you two powerful, exclusive endgame ship-techs, robotics only gives you one, and its one isn't even as good as the corresponding psi-tech, while the other one is a completely game-changing FTL tech that gives you a crushing advantage over everyone without it. Meanwhile, the psi-tech crisis only comes about if you use that crushingly-effective psi-tech jump drive, can potentially happen even with ordinary T3 FTL drives, and when it happens, can happen anywhere and be isolated.

Meanwhile, the AI rebellion spreads across borders, with no concern for whether you were benign to your synthetic subjects or not, or even whether or not you refused to use thinking machines at all! But it always starts in an empire with synths, which means it'll probably start in yours unless you're being a goody two-shoes. (Which, personally, I am, but still!)


It really just seems kind of crappy that only the idiots worshipping moon-faeries get the best tech, while the "discovering all of the secrets of the universe" guys don't.
 
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smjjames

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Yeah exactly, it's like 'why isn't it just as hard for spiritualists to get such a powerful tech?' If you're playing a race that isn't either one, you still don't have that much difficulty. Just seems horribly one sided.

Really though, the games balance is all screwy in various places.
 
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ShadowDragon868

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Frankly, I think Spiritualists should get a science malus, and a larger one for Fanatic Spiritualists, because conducting R&D shouldn't be easy when every experiment has to be vetted by the priests for theological correctness.
 
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Shirasik

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How do i do that?
As a materialist, you need a scientist with Psionic Expertise trait, assigned to social research. Only to unlock the chance to roll Psi Theory tech, but chances are still very slim, until you researched almost any another non-repeatable tech in Social tree. The chance is somewhat bigger only than the chance of rolling up the repeatable tech after completing another repeatable.
http://www.stellariswiki.com/Technology
Screenshot-253.jpg
All Psi techs following Psi Theory aren't so restricted to roll their card, so, all your efforts are literally just to get Psi Theory.
That's the terrible drawback of Stellaris's materialism - while not-a-materialist literally getting Psi Theory just after others non-repeatable techs (due to chance numbers), materialist should get the trait by any means.

How to get the trait?
Scientists can't have the trait from the start, i.e. on the hire screen. They have to develop this feature on their own.
Two ways:
1. randomly get on scientist's level-up;
2. get luck with very specific and rare random encounter during surveying of star systems.

Let's stop at levelling up your scientists.
You could send science ships into the unknown to survey the world. This also includes the chance to get specific encounter. But we have a faster way.
Assist research.
1. Hire scientists with whatever trait they have from the start, you limited only with your influence and Leader Capacity number;
2. build a science ship for every scientist;
3. assign scientist to ships and send them assist research - don't matter where to, even to colony without any science productivity, scientists will get exp on the time basis;
4. as they getting levelups, you'll get notifications about that and pop-up window if scientist got a trait. If the scientist get 5th level, didn't get Psi Expertise and you have influence to hire another one - dismiss&hire.

Is it worth to unassign scientists from researching in order to increase the "level-up pool"?
I don't know. Can't recommend it tho.
 
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UberWaffe

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I suggest that materialists shouldn't get psionics. They should get their own unique research branch instead. All ethos should.
And in all these unique research branches the upper half of the branch should be locked behind being the fanatic version of that ethos.
And subsequently there shouldn't be any way, not even a remote one, of getting into the branch without having the related ethos.

These branches should all include some end-game techs.

We need less same-ness between ethos, races and governments. Not more.
 
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ShadowDragon868

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I suggest that materialists shouldn't get psionics. They should get their own unique research branch instead. All ethos should.
And in all these unique research branches the upper half of the branch should be locked behind being the fanatic version of that ethos.
And subsequently there shouldn't be any way, not even a remote one, of getting into the branch without having the related ethos.

These branches should all include some end-game techs.

We need less same-ness between ethos, races and governments. Not more.

That would be a nightmare to balance, even harder to make remotely plausible, and would lead to ethical One True Buildism where the One True Build is the one which gets you the most optimal endgame techs. I mean, look at sapient AI versus Psionics.

Precog interfaces are just better. They're just the best. They're better than the sapient combat computer.
Psionic armies and Psi Warriors are, meh, okay. They're not quite as deadly as synthetic armies, but, critically, if the AI uprising happens, they also won't turn on you. And Psi Jump Drives are just a complete game changer. Literally the best FTL in the whole game.

That's not something that should be restricted to Fanatic Spiritualists!
 
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Dr. B

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Nah, keep psi techs in the hands of spiritualists. Materialist fools too busy with practical matters do not wish to open their minds to the possibilities of the infinitie, hah - their mistanke!

That said, maximizing scientist level ups and science selection would help.
So: Fast learner trait, not Talented, no capacity boosters enabled, science democracy government and a lot of scientists working on assist research. Replace the higher level ones as influence allows. This gives maximum levelups. Then if you get a psi guy go with advanced science oligarchy for 6+ research options, and research the cheapest techs to try to get the psi tech draw.
 
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