Again, utterly terrible idea (it would just result in people not playing the game at all) and isn't going to happen.
Matchmaking - please condence the playerbase
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I am not saying it is even a good idea to do it.
I just said if you wanted to make the matchmaking work, that is how you would do it.
Hence the damned if they do, damned if they don't.
They had an opportunity with a new game, new setting, new name to change things.
They dropped economy mode and such, they created a new matchmaking system.
The problem is, they either need a FAR LARGER population for the way they currently have it set up.
Or they needed to cut much harder, cut out everything except matchmaking.
COH2 had around 10x the population and launch, and its population wasn't spread over nearly as many different game modes and ways to queue.
I expect it just don't change and in the end very few people will use it.
I just said if you wanted to make the matchmaking work, that is how you would do it.
Hence the damned if they do, damned if they don't.
They had an opportunity with a new game, new setting, new name to change things.
They dropped economy mode and such, they created a new matchmaking system.
The problem is, they either need a FAR LARGER population for the way they currently have it set up.
Or they needed to cut much harder, cut out everything except matchmaking.
COH2 had around 10x the population and launch, and its population wasn't spread over nearly as many different game modes and ways to queue.
I expect it just don't change and in the end very few people will use it.
Its a shame they missed the opportunity to make this game a valid multiplayer mode. Looking at the issues (lobby simulator, split population etc) its not hard to find a solution especially as other games like Coh2 have already given them a perfect template.
As I don't think they will be able to fix this in a few quick patches a few weeks after launch it comes too late anyway.
I hope they get it right in the successor game to Steel Division: Normandy 44.
I will still be buying it as the game is great it would just be nice if it didn't have a multiplayer like its a game from 1999.
As I don't think they will be able to fix this in a few quick patches a few weeks after launch it comes too late anyway.
I hope they get it right in the successor game to Steel Division: Normandy 44.
I will still be buying it as the game is great it would just be nice if it didn't have a multiplayer like its a game from 1999.
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It is still a valid multiplayer game.
I have played 200 + games.
I played over a thousand of Red Dragon.
If anything, people will just abandon quick play and move back to lobbies.
I have played 200 + games.
I played over a thousand of Red Dragon.
If anything, people will just abandon quick play and move back to lobbies.
Lobby is a joke.
Its not a valid multiplayer mode it is impossible to have even one fair game in there because of fixed parameters and who is setting those parameters also deck switching.
And I have played 250+ games in beta too you can play yes but its neither fair nor competitive.
Its not a valid multiplayer mode it is impossible to have even one fair game in there because of fixed parameters and who is setting those parameters also deck switching.
And I have played 250+ games in beta too you can play yes but its neither fair nor competitive.
You can create your own lobby. Which doesn't make it impossible to have a fair game.
I mean you can kick whoever you want so you can not play groups or premades.
As to deck switching ? I don't get what you mean, people switching to counter your specific deck on the countdown ?
You can do that too (or maybe you can't if your host. I don't host often enough or try to switch decks in countdown)
I would prefer working matchmaking, but as it is set up at the moment and the population base of SD, i don't see it happening.
COH2 had 10x the population and drastically less spread out population.
You cannot do skill matching with the current spread out population at all.
Even without any sort of skill matching at the moment, it still takes too long to find a game.
Steel Division has evidently sold 48,000 copies (steamspy) and yes first day of release but many copies sold over the last month.
Company of Heroes 2 evidently sold 2,137,000 (steamspy)
SD at launch has a peak of 4,700
COH2 at launch had a peak of 20,800
SD average players during Beta was 750 or so.
Lowest COH2 average players was about 7000 - 8000 over time. Probably higher on averages but I don't want to do all that calculation.
I mean you can kick whoever you want so you can not play groups or premades.
As to deck switching ? I don't get what you mean, people switching to counter your specific deck on the countdown ?
You can do that too (or maybe you can't if your host. I don't host often enough or try to switch decks in countdown)
I would prefer working matchmaking, but as it is set up at the moment and the population base of SD, i don't see it happening.
COH2 had 10x the population and drastically less spread out population.
You cannot do skill matching with the current spread out population at all.
Even without any sort of skill matching at the moment, it still takes too long to find a game.
Steel Division has evidently sold 48,000 copies (steamspy) and yes first day of release but many copies sold over the last month.
Company of Heroes 2 evidently sold 2,137,000 (steamspy)
SD at launch has a peak of 4,700
COH2 at launch had a peak of 20,800
SD average players during Beta was 750 or so.
Lowest COH2 average players was about 7000 - 8000 over time. Probably higher on averages but I don't want to do all that calculation.
I know the things about the lobby that "you can do it too" and that you can in theory have a fair game if the host basically chooses to voluntarily not adjust his win chance.
Even if you have a generous host then it's not as fair as random map, fixed parameters for all and being matched against unknown decks.
Also agree to the population thing but lower pop makes a single matchmaking mode with no population split even more important.
To me your post was perfect arguing why lobby is shit and the game should have single matchmaking without population split.
Even if you have a generous host then it's not as fair as random map, fixed parameters for all and being matched against unknown decks.
Also agree to the population thing but lower pop makes a single matchmaking mode with no population split even more important.
To me your post was perfect arguing why lobby is shit and the game should have single matchmaking without population split.
You can host your own though. So you never have to play what you consider "unfair"
As to matchmaking, as I already said I would prefer a full matchmaking system (I AGREE WITH YOU BROTHER)
I just don't see them scrapping Destruction, scrapping 10v10 and scrapping lobbies.
Which is what would be required.
OR, a MASSIVE increase in playerbase. Like a HUGE jump.
People are just FAR too spread out.
Edit. Like a school class deciding to play a sport together.
Then signing up to 8 different sports and wondering why they cannot fill out any teams to actually play.
They either need to decide on what sport they want to do (tennis for 1v1 and Football) for example.
Or they need to someone get a whole bunch more classes worth of kids involved.
Why should there be a magical jump in playerbase and hundreds of thousands of players buying this game if the game is primarily a multiplayer game and does not have a grown up matchmaking mode?
Thats not going to happen and some patches 4 months after release don't help either. There is line charts for game sales that usually peak around release and go ever flatter after. Maybe some strange exceptions like EU4 and games with successful expansions.
Thats why I hope they fix it for the next game. Its probably the biggest hurdle they make themselves for improving their success. Had hopes with more streamlined game and PDX and hopefully a release patch for multiplayer but the latter didn't come I think they just very recently started to touch matchmaking. They probably need a few months to code a good matchmaker but then its too late unfortunately.
Thats not going to happen and some patches 4 months after release don't help either. There is line charts for game sales that usually peak around release and go ever flatter after. Maybe some strange exceptions like EU4 and games with successful expansions.
Thats why I hope they fix it for the next game. Its probably the biggest hurdle they make themselves for improving their success. Had hopes with more streamlined game and PDX and hopefully a release patch for multiplayer but the latter didn't come I think they just very recently started to touch matchmaking. They probably need a few months to code a good matchmaker but then its too late unfortunately.
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Ok. So just to be clear.
What you want. Is for them to scrap lobbies. Which also means getting rid of destruction. Also getting rid of 10v10. Leaving only matchmaking as the option ?
That is your solution you are offering ?
If not what is the solution ?
No.
The solution is:
1. entry UI is matchmaking interface.
2. move custom game entry to a button in matching making interface, and downplay its importance.
3. leave 10v10 where it is, in custom games.
So everything the exact same as it is now. Just moving custom game button.
That isn't going to change any of the problems that it currently faces.
You still have the exact same population spread over the exact same game modes.
It just means a few brand new people will click to start a game. Wait 10 minutes. And then click the custom game button.
Everyone that currently doesn't do matchmaking won't switch. They don't play it now because they choose not to.
Be it they prefer other modes. Or lobbies. Or it takes too long.
So what solution do you have to those problems ?
How do you plan on getting all the population into matchmaking ?
Because just a % of the population doesn't work. That has been shown. Even at launch when numbers will be by far the highest.
What is your solution ?
That isn't going to change any of the problems that it currently faces.
You still have the exact same population spread over the exact same game modes.
It just means a few brand new people will click to start a game. Wait 10 minutes. And then click the custom game button.
Everyone that currently doesn't do matchmaking won't switch. They don't play it now because they choose not to.
Be it they prefer other modes. Or lobbies. Or it takes too long.
So what solution do you have to those problems ?
How do you plan on getting all the population into matchmaking ?
Because just a % of the population doesn't work. That has been shown. Even at launch when numbers will be by far the highest.
What is your solution ?
The main reason why I prefer lobbies is to mainly avoid playing with randoms in a team and to avoid that ranked cheese. I tried ranked in EE and in all of the other titles, but its just a big cheese fest with lots of tryhards for me and I gave up on it in ALB after raining men became just unbearable. I had my fair share of uncommunicative dorks, arty spammers and the rest already in Wargame. Its just frustrating. I gave SD a new try and experienced even worse. I'm tired of trying to maintain half of the front in a 3vs3 game just because that one random guy keeps to his lane only and blobs or wants to wait until he can field his big cats. I'm tired of quitters that leave the game after they lost their initial assault force and I have to take over, leaving me with half of the ****** frontline again. I'm not very skilled and neither are the people I play with, we still loose a lot of matches, but at least we have fun while doing so. With randoms its just frustrating half of the time.
As long as everyone is searching in the same place, I dont see why there shouldnt be an option to search 10v10 and/or conquest/destruction?
As long as the boxes can be checked for the searchparametres I dont think it needs to take anything out of the game? The whole point is to allow people to search a wide variety of gamesizes/modes to allow for quicker games against opponents of equal skilllevel.
And nothing is too late to change now.
Its an "easy" fix but rather make it as fast as humanly possible.
As long as the boxes can be checked for the searchparametres I dont think it needs to take anything out of the game? The whole point is to allow people to search a wide variety of gamesizes/modes to allow for quicker games against opponents of equal skilllevel.
And nothing is too late to change now.
Its an "easy" fix but rather make it as fast as humanly possible.
The issue is that wide variety cancels out both quicker games and equal skill.
The more people are spread out. The less people in that gametype to start a game or balance against each other for skill.
So the only two solutions can be either more players to split. So each gametype has more people looking.
Or give less gametypes. So there are more people looking in the ones left available.
The more people are spread out. The less people in that gametype to start a game or balance against each other for skill.
So the only two solutions can be either more players to split. So each gametype has more people looking.
Or give less gametypes. So there are more people looking in the ones left available.
That is definitely a good point.
With the ability to check multiple search parametres, couldnt it counteract it?
For example: A friend and myself in our "lobby" is searching 2v2s, 3v3s, 4v4s and 10v10s with both Conquest/Destruction ticked off. We are also searching both allied and axis having chosen the respective decks for a given match.. Thats a hell of a lot of potential combinations? That should find us a game very quickly - even with someone who has around the same skill level.
If we were prepared to wait longer, we could only tick 2v2 but maybe retain both faction games because we didnt want to wait forever.
With the ability to check multiple search parametres, couldnt it counteract it?
For example: A friend and myself in our "lobby" is searching 2v2s, 3v3s, 4v4s and 10v10s with both Conquest/Destruction ticked off. We are also searching both allied and axis having chosen the respective decks for a given match.. Thats a hell of a lot of potential combinations? That should find us a game very quickly - even with someone who has around the same skill level.
If we were prepared to wait longer, we could only tick 2v2 but maybe retain both faction games because we didnt want to wait forever.
You see, I am not very good at CoH2, in fact, I am terrible. But I had no problem playing matchmaking with my friends, yes, sometimes we got people who are playing much better then we are, but we played the game, not lobby. Ranked is whole another story, don't mistake matchmaking for ranked game. Ofcourse matchmaking have to match you up against someone equal to you and it's not an easy task with SDs playerbase, but still better then having 5 lobbies and not being able to play because, in my case, I was deemed too good by those hosting the lobby. And no one says that you have to play alone in matchmaking, you can invite your friends and let matchmaking do it's job: find another bunch of guys for you to play against. So, what's the problem?
@Sarin
Solution concept for the current issues is not hard and EUG know what would be required they are not stupid:
Make "Custom games" (the current lobby) available by invite only/private only.
So no Lobby where you can easily enter and look for games.
The only other Option and first in menu is "Multiplayer" which brings you directly to the new Matchmaker which allows combined searches and shows searching by fraction:
(maybe include one more checkbox to "allow mirror match")
No too prominent mention of Ranked or Leaderboards to not scare peoples away (you can have Leaderboards buried somewhere on some page or buried in options making default Multiplayer basically all ranked but just don't tell anyone then it will be fine
).
So:
- Need combined search for multiples game modes (like 2 friends searching together for 2v2 AND 3v3 AND 4v4 not just only 2v2)
- Need good ELO like system to match player skills (behind scenes can be secret)
- Need Restriction of Custom Games (current lobby) and Ranked so ONLY ONE mode to search no split by three modes
- Option to exclude/include mirror games
- Show Player ratio searching for Axis/Allies
There might be other solutions this is just the obvious one. Sure this needs Devs working on it for a while but honestly they should have started on this half a year ago.
Solution concept for the current issues is not hard and EUG know what would be required they are not stupid:
Make "Custom games" (the current lobby) available by invite only/private only.
So no Lobby where you can easily enter and look for games.
The only other Option and first in menu is "Multiplayer" which brings you directly to the new Matchmaker which allows combined searches and shows searching by fraction:
(maybe include one more checkbox to "allow mirror match")
No too prominent mention of Ranked or Leaderboards to not scare peoples away (you can have Leaderboards buried somewhere on some page or buried in options making default Multiplayer basically all ranked but just don't tell anyone then it will be fine
).So:
- Need combined search for multiples game modes (like 2 friends searching together for 2v2 AND 3v3 AND 4v4 not just only 2v2)
- Need good ELO like system to match player skills (behind scenes can be secret)
- Need Restriction of Custom Games (current lobby) and Ranked so ONLY ONE mode to search no split by three modes
- Option to exclude/include mirror games
- Show Player ratio searching for Axis/Allies
There might be other solutions this is just the obvious one. Sure this needs Devs working on it for a while but honestly they should have started on this half a year ago.
